Extra Ecclesiam Nulla Salus

[pnewton]

And finally

[846](javascriptpenWindow(‘cr/846.htm’) How are we to understand this affirmation, often repeated by the Church Fathers?335 Re-formulated positively, it means that all salvation comes from Christ the Head through the Church which is his Body:

Basing itself on Scripture and Tradition, the Council teaches that the Church, a pilgrim now on earth, is necessary for salvation: the one Christ is the mediator and the way of salvation; he is present to us in his body which is the Church. He himself explicitly asserted the necessity of faith and Baptism, and thereby affirmed at the same time the necessity of the Church which men enter through Baptism as through a door. Hence they could not be saved who, knowing that the Catholic Church was founded as necessary by God through Christ, would refuse either to enter it or to remain in it.336

847 This affirmation is not aimed at those who, through no fault of their own, do not know Christ and his Church:

Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or his Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience - those too may achieve eternal salvation.337
[848](javascriptpenWindow(‘cr/848.htm’) "Although in ways known to himself God can lead those who, through no fault of their own, are ignorant of the Gospel, to that faith without which it is impossible to please him, the Church still has the obligation and also the sacred right to evangelize all men."338

 

[SPOKENWORD]

beng:

Here’s a question:

Can a person be saved by Christ and not through the Church?

Yes,Its the BLOOD that saves not the church.

 

[beng]

SPOKENWORD:

Yes,Its the BLOOD that saves not the church.

Bzzzzt! Wrong.

**His Holiness Pope Paul VI
Apostolic Exhortation
Evangelii Nuntiandi
On Evangelization in the Modern World
December 8, 1975

“Not without sorrow can we hear people continually claiming to love Christ but without the Church; to listen to Christ but not to the Church; to belong to Christ but outside of the Church. the absurdity of this dichotomy is clearly evident in this phrase of the Gospel: ‘Anyone who rejects you, rejects me’.” **

 

[SPOKENWORD]

beng:

Bzzzzt! Wrong.

**His Holiness Pope Paul VI
Apostolic Exhortation
Evangelii Nuntiandi
On Evangelization in the Modern World
December 8, 1975

“Not without sorrow can we hear people continually claiming to love Christ but without the Church; to listen to Christ but not to the Church; to belong to Christ but outside of the Church. the absurdity of this dichotomy is clearly evident in this phrase of the Gospel: ‘Anyone who rejects you, rejects me’.” **

In the spirit of charity Ill let you fly around like a bee. Without the Blood you cannot be saved.

 

[beng]

SPOKENWORD:

In the spirit of charity Ill let you fly around like a bee. Without the Blood you cannot be saved.

So you’re brushing off Paul IV. Nice.

 

[SPOKENWORD]

beng:

So you’re brushing off Paul IV. Nice.

And you are brushing off the power of the precious Blood of Jesus.

 

[tru_dvotion]

818

"However, one cannot charge with the sin of the separation those who at present are born into these communities [that resulted from such separation] and in them are brought up in the faith of Christ, and the Catholic Church accepts them with respect and affection as brothers . . . . All who have been justified by faith in Baptism are incorporated into Christ; they therefore have a right to be called Christians, and with good reason are accepted as brothers in the Lord by the children of the Catholic Church."272
That is correct. However, people living in a hut somewhere in the jungle who never heard of Christ or of his Church are less common these days than used to be. I know people who work in remote 3rd World countries… and it is quite amazing how MUCH people know about the Gospel even in such remote places. The majority rejects it. I would be inclined to think anyone on this forum would not qualify; certainly the majority of people living in the western culture would not qualify to meet the criteria mentioned. We can lead the horse to water, but we cannot make it drink. So the onus is on the horse if he picks death instead of life.

 

[tru_dvotion]

And you are brushing off the power of the precious Blood of Jesus.

This is a mute argument. The Precious Blood of Christ is only available through the office of licitly ordained priest and not through one’s creative imagination.

 

[FelixBlue]

tru_dvotion:

That is correct. However, people living in a hut somewhere in the jungle who never heard of Christ or of his Church are less common these days than used to be. I know people who work in remote 3rd World countries… and it is quite amazing how MUCH people know about the Gospel even in such remote places. The majority rejects it. I would be inclined to think anyone on this forum would not qualify; certainly the majority of people living in the western culture would not qualify to meet the criteria mentioned. We can lead the horse to water, but we cannot make it drink. So the onus is on the horse if he picks death instead of life.

What are you talking about? The quote you respond to is clearly referring to protestants, not “people living in a hut somewhere.”

There is no salvation outside the Church; those who are saved (and I hope for all) will be saved in and through the Church, the Body of Christ. Thus, Hindus, Buddhists, Atheists, etc. can be saved…not because they are the above, but because they are people of good will and have implicitly entered into the salvation of the Church.

 

[Shoshana]

From what I understand, it is the people who have been baptized in the name of God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit within Holy Mother Church (being the true Body of Christ whose Precious Blood invigorates and gives life to its members) and leaves or apostosizes for whatever reason into another denomination or no religion at all will not find salvation at all unless said person repents, confesses receives absolution and returns into a state of grace.

I have a brother who has done so. He has left the Church to become Anglican, to become Calvary Gospel, to become Faith Tabernacle. He would not know the Faith at all, I would even say he is ignorant of it, and he hates Mother Church. I have given him the book from Scott Hahn ‘Home to Rome’ with absolutely no results. Not even any deliberation.

It is a case like this that continues to detest the very Faith he was baptized with. Our dad died a couple of years ago. It was a funeral with a Mass. He decides, that after the priest said that other denominations would not be allowed at this point to share communion with the Catholic congregation, to go in line to receive. Then he bold-faced says to me that he is catholic also (in the universal sense). You can ask me if I wasn’t angry at his shameless act considering his disgust of such a man-made religion.

Enough ranting…would this be what it means by no salvation outside of the Church?

Blessings,
Shoshana

 

[beng]

SPOKENWORD:

And you are brushing off the power of the precious Blood of Jesus.

No. I’d say that the the saving power of Christ is bestowed fully in the Church which is the body of Christ.

 

[beng]

FelixBlue:

What are you talking about? The quote you respond to is clearly referring to protestants, not “people living in a hut somewhere.”

There is no salvation outside the Church; those who are saved (and I hope for all) will be saved in and through the Church, the Body of Christ. Thus, Hindus, Buddhists, Atheists, etc. can be saved…not because they are the above, but because they are people of good will and have implicitly entered into the salvation of the Church.

How do these “people of God” enter into the Church?

And by the way, who consist of people of God?

 

[tru_dvotion]

What are you talking about? The quote you respond to is clearly referring to protestants, not “people living in a hut somewhere.”

Thank you for pointing out my mistake, wrong quote. However, “they therefore have a right to be called Christians, and with good reason are accepted as brothers in the Lord by the children of the Catholic Church” does not exempt them from any of the rules of the Church. What it tells me is they are insufficiently converted into the Body, and not fully functioning within the Body. It does not imply in the least they would have a different set of rules in the Body. I see no exemption from the responsibility living their life and concluding it in the of grace. Do you?

 

[beng]

Shoshana:

From what I understand, it is the people who have been baptized in the name of God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit within Holy Mother Church (being the true Body of Christ whose Precious Blood invigorates and gives life to its members) and leaves or apostosizes for whatever reason into another denomination or no religion at all will not find salvation at all unless said person repents, confesses receives absolution and returns into a state of grace.

I have a brother who has done so. He has left the Church to become Anglican, to become Calvary Gospel, to become Faith Tabernacle. He would not know the Faith at all, I would even say he is ignorant of it, and he hates Mother Church. I have given him the book from Scott Hahn ‘Home to Rome’ with absolutely no results. Not even any deliberation.

It is a case like this that continues to detest the very Faith he was baptized with. Our dad died a couple of years ago. It was a funeral with a Mass. He decides, that after the priest said that other denominations would not be allowed at this point to share communion with the Catholic congregation, to go in line to receive. Then he bold-faced says to me that he is catholic also (in the universal sense). You can ask me if I wasn’t angry at his shameless act considering his disgust of such a man-made religion.

Enough ranting…would this be what it means by no salvation outside of the Church?

Blessings,
Shoshana

He is outside the Church.

 

[tru_dvotion]

Dear Shoshana,

Please do not be discouraged. I have a large family enslaved by new age. We have great responsibility to pray for our kin’s conversion. Hope and pray and please… never give up. God bless.

 

[Jenlyn]

Michael C:

The Cathecism says you do not have to be Catholic to go to heaven. All you Catholics out there don’t go anywhere, it’s a technicallity.

where?

 

[beng]

Jenlyn:

Michael C:

The Cathecism says you do not have to be Catholic to go to heaven. All you Catholics out there don’t go anywhere, it’s a technicallity.

where?

What he’s proposing is incorrect and no where in the CCC. It’s not a technicallity.

 

[Jenlyn]

SPOKENWORD:

Requote. CCC169 And not in the church as if she were the author of our salvation.

Here is the entire quote from CCC169 since there only seems to parts of it being used.

[Salvation comes from God alone; but because we recieve the life of faith through the Church, she is our mother: “We believe the Church as the mother of our new birth, and not in the Church as if she were the author of our salvation.” Because she is our mother, she is our teacher of faith.]

Could this mean that the Church is not the author of our salvation, God is. The Church interpets “the author” and teaches to the faithful ones. So we need the Church to instruct us in what is right. After all if God left interpetation up to the average person everyone would be believing what they thought was right. That would be a mess in my opinion.

 

[FelixBlue]

beng:

How do these “people of God” enter into the Church?

And by the way, who consist of people of God?

By the grace of God like you and me.

BTW, I never mentioned “People of God” so I’m not quite sure what you are referring to.

 

[beng]

FelixBlue:

By the grace of God like you and me.

BTW, I never mentioned “People of God” so I’m not quite sure what you are referring to.

I read wrong. “You said people of good will”

Now, I entered the Church through baptism and I may enter the kingdom of Heaven if I die not in the state of mortal sin. How is these Hidus etc enter the Church? what do you mean by “implicitly entered into the salvation of the Church”?