Far right marchers rally amid tensions over Woolrich killing

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My biggest problem with alot of people in the UK is this frequent Europhobic, self loathing attitude, that always seems to make excuses for the immigrants when they riot (and they’ve done it a fair number of times since Nottinghill Gate in the 70’s) while reserving outrage and anger for those who demand something be done about them. Quite often the very same people who would have you believe that the UK is loaded with people who are secretly neo-Nazis, will also insist that there are only a tiny handful of radical Islamicists in the country, and that violent leftists are not a problem, though the November 2010 riots in London would say otherwise and then some.
If the police in Britain ever decide to face rioters with firm resolve and intimidate them off the streets, then I think you would likely see a sharp drop in support for the EDL. Sadly however, because the people in power have made a sacred cow out of multi-culturalism, I don't think it's likely to happen any time soon.
 
First off, we don’t know who the Culprits are in this story, that needs to be stated but still the story should be considered, I hope they catch the Culprits soon.
MACHETE wielding thugs have left two men with ‘serious injuries’ after attacking them in an Accrington barber’s shop.
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The two victims had been inside the shop in Ormerod Street when four masked men carrying machetes and knives forced their way inside.
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Detectives investigating the incident said the gang attacked the pair before forcing them into the street.
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The thugs also attacked a parked car during the incident at midnight on Saturday.
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lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/news/hyndburn/accrington/10446384.Machete_attack_horror_at_Accrington_barber_s_shop/
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It is very telling that a predominantly American forum will devote over 200 posts to an organisation that means very little to the British, and which commands virtually no support at all within the country. In CAF fantasy land there are hoardes of extremist Muslims waiting to attack, take over the country, and instill hatred and animosity. This ignores the outrage from real Muslims about this attack both in the media and, more importantly among our neighbours and work colleagues. The EDL are entitled to demonstrate and have done so. They are now yesterday’s news - only CAF seems determined to give them a profile and prominence which baffles us in the UK.
 
liturgyluver said:
It is very telling that a predominantly American forum will devote over 200 posts to an organisation that means very little to the British, and which commands virtually no support at all within the country. In CAF fantasy land there are hoardes of extremist Muslims waiting to attack, take over the country, and instill hatred and animosity. This ignores the outrage from real Muslims about this attack both in the media and, more importantly among our neighbours and work colleagues. The EDL are entitled to demonstrate and have done so. They are now yesterday’s news - only CAF seems determined to give them a profile and prominence which baffles us in the UK.
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And that seems a very politically correct UK view of this in turn. It is interesting that it is so many from the UK who showed up here to speak down the EDL. I see nothing wrong with people not wanting Sharia Law in their own back yard.
 
liturgyluver said:
It is very telling that a predominantly American forum will devote over 200 posts to an organisation that means very little to the British, and which commands virtually no support at all within the country. In CAF fantasy land there are hoardes of extremist Muslims waiting to attack, take over the country, and instill hatred and animosity. This ignores the outrage from real Muslims about this attack both in the media and, more importantly among our neighbours and work colleagues. The EDL are entitled to demonstrate and have done so. They are now yesterday’s news - only CAF seems determined to give them a profile and prominence which baffles us in the UK.
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Let me add on that I think it is important that the way you are interpreting is not what this thread was about from page 1. Respectfully, the argument in the initial posts was to assert this was about Xenophobia, speak about “Far Right Marchers” in a negative way.

You ignore that almost nothing was said about Muslims in the early posts and nothing said about the Soldier that was the victim, what was said seem to be about casting this group in negative light.

So if anyone brought up the EDL, it seemed primarily a liberal attempt to disparage and villify so-called Right Wingers. It appears you just see a high page count and make your observations.

So in turn, you brought up your own projections on others and how they think. Your projection is that Americans are trembling in fear of Muslim Extremists and those Americans are on CAF saying this. I don’t think that is found evident in this thread.

If what you said was “true” about CAF “fantasyland”, then, I would think the 2 threads on this tragic incident in Woolwich would be filled with Americans fearful of Muslim Extremists, yet, those threads are in comparison brief compared to this one.
 
It’s not like people in the UK never made comments about strictly American affairs 😃
 
The problem - it seems to me - is that any discussion on this forum always has to fit the “right wing conservative” is good and the left wing liberal is bad model which just leads to pigeon-holing. The reality is not so simple. A very nice American asked me on Sunday if I was conservative or liberal, and I asked him in return if he was a good witch or a bad witch!
 
liturgyluver said:
The problem - it seems to me - is that any discussion on this forum always has to fit the “right wing conservative” is good and the left wing liberal is bad model which just leads to pigeon-holing. The reality is not so simple. A very nice American asked me on Sunday if I was conservative or liberal, and I asked him in return if he was a good witch or a bad witch!
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Ah, the good old Americentrism, where everything has to be like America, and where the problems must be the same everywhere else as in America. It’s not just the ‘right’, either - it’s a tack that the LCWR seems to take, as if Americans are such superior special snowflakes in the Church.

As for the EDL, we must be wary about a group that has as much antipathy for Poles as it does for Pakistanis, it seems. But a Briton, if I am wrong, ought to correct me.
 
From the victim’s fellow Fusiliers
https://fbcdn-sphotos-b-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/1219_568568566528154_9752082_n.jpg

https://fbcdn-sphotos-d-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-frc3/378127_459899380771252_708962703_n.jpg

And from his family
Killed soldier Lee Rigby would not have wanted his death used to excuse reprisal attacks, his family have said.
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Drummer Rigby’s family called for calm as the Queen met army personnel during a visit to the barracks near to where died on 22 May.
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In a statement his family said his friends’ different cultures and religions “made no difference to Lee”.
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The family’s plea came amid reports of a rise in anti-Muslim incidents since the soldier’s murder last week.
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bbc.co.uk/news/uk-22725999
 
Aaron780 said:
they go around in packs looking for white anglo-christians to bash up, they are violent!
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Gosh they sound scary, and especially terrifying for the law abiding white person just strolling down the street!!:eek:
 
liturgyluver said:
It is very telling that a predominantly American forum will devote over 200 posts to an organisation that means very little to the British, and which commands virtually no support at all within the country. In CAF fantasy land there are hoardes of extremist Muslims waiting to attack, take over the country, and instill hatred and animosity. This ignores the outrage from real Muslims about this attack both in the media and, more importantly among our neighbours and work colleagues. The EDL are entitled to demonstrate and have done so. They are now yesterday’s news - only CAF seems determined to give them a profile and prominence which baffles us in the UK.
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Great post. CAF can be a bizzaro-world that’s for sure!!

I think the only reason this thread has gone on so long is the shock that Catholics would defend racist thugs and neo-nazis.
 
liturgyluver said:
The problem - it seems to me - is that any discussion on this forum always has to fit the “right wing conservative” is good and the left wing liberal is bad model which just leads to pigeon-holing. The reality is not so simple. A very nice American asked me on Sunday if I was conservative or liberal, and I asked him in return if he was a good witch or a bad witch!
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Well that shouldn’t be surprising as most threads on politics deal with America political issues - and most Americans see politics in terms of left (more government, social liberalism) and right (less government, social conservatism, tradition, etc.). Many Americans aren’t really familiar with the issues in other countries and don’t have a frame of reference to analyze things. I wouldn’t get so carried away with your somewhat superior attitude toward your “nice American” friend. In America, identifying as either a conservative or a liberal says a great deal about one’s political perspective. Perhaps a better answer for you to have given would be: " In Europe we’re all liberal/left as we’ve given up our freedom in exchange for the promise of cradle to grave welfare and paid vacations. We’ve no need to reproduce - we have everything we need. "

Atleast until the money runs out.

Ishii
 
ishii said:
Well that shouldn’t be surprising as most threads on politics deal with America political issues - and most Americans see politics in terms of left (more government, social liberalism) and right (less government, social conservatism, tradition, etc.). Many Americans aren’t really familiar with the issues in other countries and don’t have a frame of reference to analyze things. I wouldn’t get so carried away with your somewhat superior attitude toward your “nice American” friend. In America, identifying as either a conservative or a liberal says a great deal about one’s political perspective. Perhaps a better answer for you to have given would be: " In Europe we’re all liberal/left as we’ve given up our freedom in exchange for the promise of cradle to grave welfare and paid vacations. We’ve no need to reproduce - we have everything we need. "

Atleast until the money runs out.

Ishii
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Good analysis of what was happening in Europe, but now the bottom has fallen out, huge unemployment, especially for the youth, huge cuts in welfare, and demonstrations everywhere, for example Greece against austerity measures and France against gay ‘marriage’. Against this backdrop, a rise in groups such as the EDL who now gain support from the man in the street who are consistently being ignored by a British government who looks to be governing like a chicken with no head. You may not like these groups but they are there and growing and you can call everyone joining/supporting them socialists if you like but they are not going anywhere until some very legitimate concerns are answered and throwing the race card, the homophobic, card, the gender card, well that used to work until it was overplayed, now peoples backs are against the wall.
 
ishii said:
Well that shouldn’t be surprising as most threads on politics deal with America political issues - and most Americans see politics in terms of left (more government, social liberalism) and right (less government, social conservatism, tradition, etc.). Many Americans aren’t really familiar with the issues in other countries and don’t have a frame of reference to analyze things. I wouldn’t get so carried away with your somewhat superior attitude toward your “nice American” friend. In America, identifying as either a conservative or a liberal says a great deal about one’s political perspective. Perhaps a better answer for you to have given would be: " In Europe we’re all liberal/left as we’ve given up our freedom in exchange for the promise of cradle to grave welfare and paid vacations. We’ve no need to reproduce - we have everything we need. "

Atleast until the money runs out.

Ishii
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As I was saying: welfare systems-left wing-bad vs. freedom-right-wing-good. Yet another simplistic (and innacurate) analogy that is meaningless to most Europeans from across the political spectrum. Definitions of freedom and basic rights are poles apart.

A more interesting exam question would be why those outside the US don’t share or subscribe to its perception of its so-called freedoms. But at the end of the day Americans should decide for America, and it would be rather nice for us to be able to do the same.
 
liturgyluver said:
As I was saying: welfare systems-left wing-bad vs. freedom-right-wing-good. Yet another simplistic (and innacurate) analogy that is meaningless to most Europeans from across the political spectrum. Definitions of freedom and basic rights are poles apart.

A more interesting exam question would be why those outside the US don’t share or subscribe to its perception of its so-called freedoms. But at the end of the day Americans should decide for America, and it would be rather nice for us to be able to do the same.
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I couldn’t agree more but the UK is involved in countries which I think, like you should decide for themselves what they wish to do, and as we now ‘belong’ to the EU we are not free to decide what is in the best interests of the people in the UK unless and until we can remove ourselves.
 
JackyB said:
I couldn’t agree more but the UK is involved in countries which I think, like you should decide for themselves what they wish to do, and as we now ‘belong’ to the EU we are not free to decide what is in the best interests of the people in the UK unless and until we can remove ourselves.
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I agree with your first point but not necessarily the second. However, it is that perception of the EU that has led the PM to promise that there will be a referendum to decide whether we should remain in the EU or leave - time will tell. Interestingly, the prospect of a withdrawal from the EU has prompted a backlash from business leaders who argue that the econmic case to stay in the EU is overwhelming.
 
So the EDL are a bunch of violent neo-Nazis, who draw most of there support from misguided American Catholics 😃
 
Seamus_L said:
So the EDL are a bunch of violent neo-Nazis, who draw most of there support from misguided American Catholics 😃
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On CAF, yes.

IRL I would say no, Catholics would never support such an unfortunate organization.
 
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