Fatalism?

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Because from God’s point of view you cannot choose another one, hence the other choice is unreal/illusion. Remember that there is only one God’s sees.
How do you ascertain God sees only one? Even if you imagine God is only at the end of all time looking back, He would be able to see that I had a decision to make and what my decision was. But that doesn’t negate the fact that He would know I had a choice.
 
But from God point of view, you choose X. How both choices could be real?
From my point of view, I choose X. But we established the very fact that I could have chosen X or Y makes them both real. The fact that a choice existed makes it real for both myself and for God.
 
Because from God’s point of view you cannot choose another one, hence the other choice is unreal/illusion. Remember that there is only one God’s sees.
Yes I can. The other choice is not a choice -it was a thought (which God of course also knows). It is the road not taken -the flavor not chosen.

You are correct in that no other choice was made - there is no other choice that exists.

He sees all that is past present and future for me - in immediacy. God is outside of time. God sees my thinking about it (I could not think about it without God) and my choice and that I did not choose vanilla.

“To choose” - that is to “cut off”. A was chosen so B was cut off. Not chosen.

God sees I am faced with a choice of this or that - God sees that I choose Chocolate. It was a free choice.

My having being able to choose chocolate or vanilla, my choosing chocolate, my birth, the founding of Rome - all this God sees all together.
 
Yes I can. The other choice is not a choice -it was a thought (which God of course also knows). It is the road not taken -the flavor not chosen.

You are correct in that no other choice was made - there is no other choice that exists.

He sees all that is past present and future for me - in immediacy. God is outside of time. God sees my thinking about it (I could not think about it without God) and my choice and that I did not choose vanilla.

“To choose” - that is to “cut off”. A was chosen so B was cut off. Not chosen.

God sees I am faced with a choice of this or that - God sees that I choose Chocolate. It was a free choice.
Good. So the other choice is an illusion. Now it is your turn to show that fatalism is not real when only one choice is always real.
 
Good. So the other choice is an illusion.
No.

There was an other option. I just chose chocolate. The other ice cream really exists and I could have chosen it!

It is still there melting…
 
How do you ascertain God sees only one? Even if you imagine God is only at the end of all time looking back, He would be able to see that I had a decision to make and what my decision was. But that doesn’t negate the fact that He would know I had a choice.
Future cannot be possibly two.
 
No.

There was an other option. I just chose chocolate. The other ice cream really exists and I could have chosen it!

It is still there melting…
We are talking about choice, what you perceive and think you can perform.
 
We are talking about choice, what you perceive and think you can perform.
Good then no question remains. God sees me with a choice to make (chocolate or vanilla) and God sees that I choose chocolate not vanilla. The vanilla still exists -I simply do not choose it but chocolate.
 
Good then no question remains. God sees me with a choice (chocolate or vanilla) and God sees that I choose chocolate not vanilla. The vanilla still exists -I simply do not choose it but chocolate.
Now, we have two roads to go. Your road or my road.

Your road: Only one option is always real and the rest is an illusion. You need to then show that fatalism is incorrect.

My road: Both options are real and future is undetermined hence fatalism is obviously wrong.
 
Now, we have two roads to go. Your road or my road.

Your road: Only one option is always real and the rest is an illusion. You need to then show that fatalism is incorrect.

My road: Both options are real and future is undermined hence fatalism is obviously wrong.
I have already explained all above.

Please see my many posts above and in the other thread.

It is not an illusion - the vanilla was not chosen and has now formed a sticky puddle of melted ice cream. I choose chocolate and enjoyed it.

I do not need to show fatalism is incorrect -burden of proof of fatalism is on you (but that is like tying to prove that your really a mouse - trying to prove something that is not true is true).
 
I have already explained all above.

Please see my many posts above and in the other thread.

It is not an illusion - the vanilla was not chosen and has now formed a sticky puddle of melted ice cream. I choose chocolate and enjoyed it.

I do not need to show fatalism is incorrect -burden of proof of fatalism is on you (but that is like tying to prove that your really a mouse - trying to prove something that is not true is true).
Your choice, the mental one. It is either illusion or real. Pick one.
 
Your choice, the mental one. It is either illusion or real. Pick one.
It is a real choice. Choices are made interiorly. And then carried out - exteriorly. God sees all - both the real options before me, the real thoughts in my mind, the real choice in my will and the carrying out of that choice (chocolate) in action outside of my mind - though heading towards my mind via my stomach 🙂

There is NO illusion involved. Only reality. Interior and exterior reality.
 
Huh?

I have explained all above. See above posts.
No you didn’t. You have two options X and Y. One is real, lets call it X, because you can choose it and another one is an illusion, Y. It is always like this. All options, mental one are illusions but one.
 
No you didn’t. You have two options X and Y. One is real, lets call it X, because you can choose it and another one is an illusion, Y. It is always like this. All options, mental one are illusions but one.
No both are real.

Hey take a trip to your local ice cream store. So see the options laid out before you to choose from.

They are all quite real. You can choose to buy and eat one. Tis worth the field trip.

If you still doubt it - start eating from them all,… The police will then show up and put you in a very real jail.
 
No both are real.

Hey take a trip to your local ice cream store. So see the options laid out before you to choose from.

They are all quite real. You can choose to buy and eat one. Tis worth the field trip.

If you still doubt it - start eating from them all,… The police will then show up and put you in a very real jail.
Ok. You choose X and then you rewind time. Can you choose Y this time or you only choose X always no matter how many times you rewind time?
 
OK so we go back in time and the choice is chocolate and vanilla. Both are real and you can go back and choose either. But if one for whatever reason is fatal or self destructive than that would be the illusion. There has to be something to qualify fatal in relation to vanilla and chocolate and illusion.
 
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