Fatalism?

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St_Redemption said:
You can’t do it because you didn’t choose to do it. To do it despite choosing otherwise would indicate a lack of freedom of the will, because then apparently you would be FORCED to do it against your will. So it seems like we are all in agreeance.
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But the very fact that we always do what we are assumed to means that we cannot scape our fates.A God who is omniscient won’t do such a mistake that creature could realize! 😃
 
davidv said:
Yes. Your point?
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Cool.
davidv said:
At minimun you do not understand what I have written. At worst, you do not have a reasonable (that is, logical) basis for your claims.
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I can summarize my discussion in one line now: We have fates since God sees. We are however free to dance as we wish but we cannot change our fate. This is a creation which has a serious problem, hence the God is responsible for its action when it comes to divine justice.
 
Bahman said:
But the very fact that we always do what we are assumed to means that we cannot scape our fates.A God who is omniscient won’t do such a mistake that creature could realize! 😃
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You are right, but it is the fate that WE CHOSE

No fate but what we make
 
St_Redemption said:
You are right, but it is the fate that WE CHOSE

No fate but what we make
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No it is not termed “fate” it is termed choice rather…

Fate infers that it destined to happen - predetermined without free will. Unavoidable.

Hence the error of “fatalism”.
 
Bookcat said:
No it is not termed “fate” it is termed choice rather…

Fate infers that it destined to happen - predetermined without free will. Unavoidable.

Hence the error of “fatalism”.
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What I am trying to say is that you can have fate and be free. That is basically your scenario. Fatalism.
 
Bookcat said:
In the normal sense - No.

They are contradictory.

Free will is either free or it is not free will. By definition.
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Well. That is basically your scenario. We have fate because God sees and we are however free to act.
 
Bookcat said:
R. *Negative
*
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So you think you are going to a place you are not supposed to! That is very definition of fate. By the way we are not the writer of the book. Content of book is written at time of creation.
 
Bahman said:
So you think you are going to a place you are not supposed to! That is very definition of fate. By the way we are not the writer of the book. Content of book is written at time of creation.
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To the first:

R. Negative

To the second:

R. Negative

To the third:

R. Negative God involves us as co-workers in his vineyard as it where.

To the forth:

R. Negative Creation is not a once an done matter. Nor is there some play that was written in advance somehow - that we come in and just say some predetermined lines and exit.
 
Bookcat said:
To the first:

R. Negative

To the second:

R. Negative

To the third:

R. Negative God involves us as co-workers in his vineyard as it where.

To the forth:

R. Negative** Creation is not a once an done matter. Nor is there some play that was written in advance somehow - that we come in and just say some predetermined lines and exit.**
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Not what your Church says…the first part. The second part would be a logical conclusion since they cannot affirmatively answer how foreknowledge and pre-ordination mesh with free will.
Or, maybe there is another answer.
 
oldcelt said:
Not what your Church says…the first part. The second part would be a logical conclusion since they cannot affirmatively answer how foreknowledge and pre-ordination mesh with free will.
Or, maybe there is another answer.
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What exactly does the Church say on this matter and what do you think it means?
 
Bookcat said:
To the first:

R. Negative
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Good.
Bookcat said:
To the second:

R. Negative
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So read your previous comment.
Bookcat said:
To the third:

R. Negative God involves us as co-workers in his vineyard as it where.
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Co-worker in what is already designed!
Bookcat said:
To the forth:

R. Negative Creation is not a once an done matter. Nor is there some play that was written in advance somehow - that we come in and just say some predetermined lines and exit.
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That is wrong at least within your faith. Everything is done at the moment of creation.
 
The only place the Kingdom isn’t complete is in time. You wouldn’t know Christ is King and wins the battle of good and evil had it not already happened outside of time.

So how are you spending your very limited time?
 
GaryTaylor said:
The only place the Kingdom isn’t complete is in time. You wouldn’t know Christ in King and wins the battle of good and evil had it not already happened outside of time.

So how are you spending your very limited time?
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To find and kill ignorance.
 
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