Father James Martin / Homosexual Unions

[josh987654321]

Either they follow the rules and live a chaste life, just like unmarried heterosexuals, or they’re gonna have to go elsewhere. If they want to be Catholic they’re gonna have to obey the Church just like all good Catholics.

Just wanted to add, that if they fall they always have recourse to the sacrament of confession. They don’t have to be perfect Catholics to be Catholic (It’s a hospital for sinners), but they have to accept the Churches teachings that sodomy is a sin.

My brother had a good quote, that say’s the Church doesn’t judge people, it judges teaching. The teaching to ‘reverence’ sin or that sodomy is anything other than a sin, we can absolutely judge as heretical and wrong and we should call it out when it shows itself.

God Bless You

Thank you for reading.

 

[nearlycatholic]

I just wish they would stay in their closet. There is a proverb about grabbing a dog by the ears and getting bit. These groups continue to push to the point of belligerence and there is going to be a push back. Our country is heading toward a civil war and our enemies love it. It makes us easy pickings. No one can “make America great again” when we are this divided and when so many in our country have no respect for anything good or decent. I’ve read woe to him who calls evil good and good evil. Is that not where we are as a country ?

 

[josh987654321]

I just wish they would stay in their closet.

I don’t, because if people get onto it early, they can influence such people in the right direction before those like the LGBTQIA activists and secular society fill them with lies and empty promises.

These groups continue to push to the point of belligerence and there is going to be a push back.

The irony is, that if this same sex marriage vote in Australia results in a yes, it will not be those who are homosexual who passed it, it will be majority heterosexuals who passed it and worst of all, heretics and traitors who claim to be ‘Catholic’ who vote yes to it.

No one can “make America great again” when we are this divided and when so many in our country have no respect for anything good or decent. I’ve read woe to him who calls evil good and good evil. Is that not where we are as a country ?

There is hope though. If Clinton had won I would have agreed, but there is great hope, and we will see what this postal vote returns in Australia on 15 Nov.

God Bless You

Thank you for reading

 

[nearlycatholic]

yes the young strugglers who haven’t done anything but are curious, agreed. Want them to have help and right kind of support. I was talking of those who flaunt it and parade it and by golly you will make me a cake and perform a ceremony or else. I wish they were afraid of being so brash.

 

[josh987654321]

I wish they were afraid of being so brash.

I agree except I wouldn’t use the word ‘afraid’ I would use instead ‘decency’ or ‘respect’ I wish they had enough decency and respect to not be so brash as LGBTQIA activists are and have been.

God Bless You

Thank you for reading.

 

[Maximilian75]

I think the OP was speaking rhetorically… Then again I don’t know

 

[theCardinalbird]

The bottom line is that the Church cannot ever change its doctrine so radically. To allow a sin to be acceptable (especially Same sex Marriage or unions) would be heretical. Thankfully, not even the Pope can change the stance of the Church regarding this issue.

Father James Martin, heretic or not. Knows the Church cannot change doctrine

 

[TheLittleLady]

Can you give me the time stamp where Fr Martin speaks heresy?

They actually note that the lay people can say what they want, disagree, etc. but that Fr Martin must speak the teachings of the Church.

“Objectively disordered”, bringing up the fact that those are a hurtful pair of words is heresy? Seriously?

We sat aside the phrase "“perfidious Jews” from the prayers of Good Friday because those words were needlessly hurtful. Also the changes wrt the nature of the Church from VII that the moderator brought up.

Doctrine does not change. Language absolutely can and does.

Professor Hornbeck brings up the idea of changing actual teaching.

I watched every single word of this video, it is a heavily edited video BTW. Fr Martin never says that doctrine should be changed (again, changing language is not changing doctrine).

Fr Martin speaks of respect of persons, of dignity of persons, treating gay persons with respect and dignity. He speaks of love and not of sex or marriage, he speaks about transgender people with respect and dignity - about going the extra mile to make people feel welcomed.

And the idea that the woman in the example who remained married to her husband when he transitioned to present as a woman, what a dedication to her husband! Heck, I know people who have divorced their husband because he gained weight. That nameless woman is an example to wives everywhere about loving your husband in sickness and health, better or worse.

He speaks of showing reverence for one human being who has spent decades caring for another person who is critically ill. As a caregiver to a critically ill spouse, people don’t have nearly enough reverence for that sort of sacrificial love. It is a daily dying to oneself to care for a critically ill friend, grandparent, child, spouse or any other sort of relationship.

We often suggest the great Catholic documentary “The Desire of the Everlasting Hills” for those who are gay or who love someone who is gay. One of the women in that documentary speaks of caring for her former lover during her final illness, I cried at that part. So, it is okay when those filmmakers portray a lesbian Catholic caring for the woman who used to be her partner, but, it is heresy when Fr Martin talks about a similar situation?

SMH

 

[JamalChristophr]

I don’t want to be a wet blanket, but we had a super long conversation about this just two weeks ago, I think it was, regarding Fr. Martin.

Anyways, it seems to me that Fr. Martin gets dangerously close to going against church teaching in his sexual exthics and moral teachings, but he does not go over the line. I find his behavior unfortunate because he’s trying too hard to bridge the gap between what the Churches teaches and supporting the gay community in what they want, which the Church cannot sanction. It’s my opinion. No, I’m not going to defend it. Just my single post for this thread.

 

[Brendan]

Well, here is what the Vatican teaches on the subject.

http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/c...cfaith_doc_20030731_homosexual-unions_en.html

 

[JimG]

One mad mom comments here.

Edward Peters comments here.

 

[tseleehw]

I did not watch the video, but I would not be surprised if he did say this; in fact I would be surprised if he didn’t. In no way should gay unions be reverenced. They are contrary to Church teaching; it would not be inaccurate to go so far as to say that they are the works of Satan. This is not to pass judgment on homosexual individuals, but gay unions can never be “reverenced” by faithful Catholics. It is indeed true that Father Martin is flirting with heresy. Be very careful about trusting what he says in these kinds of talks and in the media; never assume that his opinions are in agreement with the teachings of the Church.

 

[2towers]

Fr Martin speaks of respect of persons, of dignity of persons, treating gay persons with respect and dignity. He speaks of love and not of sex or marriage, he speaks about transgender people with respect and dignity - about going the extra mile to make people feel welcomed.

I see nothing wrong with any of that.

I watched every single word of this video, it is a heavily edited video BTW. Fr Martin never says that doctrine should be changed (again, changing language is not changing doctrine).

There is just a huge disconnect here, there are people everywhere saying otherwise. Unfortunately, I just have been vested enough in this issue to listen to any other Fr. Martins talks or book. I have several books I am reading at any given time. Is he stating that he is ok with civil unions? Is he suggesting that anyone is exempt from being chaste outside of traditional marriage? You would think these would be easy questions to answer. Is he saying this in a convoluted way, is that it? Is everyone misjudging the man?

Cardinal Sarah, whom I respect a great deal has been critical of Fr. Martin. I am reading one of his books, by the way. I find it hard to believe that the Cardinal would be critical without due diligence. I guess I will have to listen to the talk excerpt that someone posted earlier.

Your post by the way was very eloquent. You did justice for your point of view. The only thing I would add would be to say that really, everyone has battle fatigue over the whole LGBT… how should it even be characterized? Dialog. It has been said a 1000 times that there is no hostility in the pews, or is that wrong? It isn’t at my church.

It all boils down to this, and this too has been said a thousand times [no anger here or sarcasm]

1. All are welcome.
2. All Catholics are called to be chaste outside of a church approved marriage between a man and a woman.

That is it. I think by now everyone realizes that gay people, SSA, TG have had it rough. It is a heavy cross, there is no doubt about it. The rules are not going to change though, not for LGBT, not for anyone. We are all called to love the sinner hate the actual sin. That is it. I think Fr. Martin should have written his book during the 70s or 80s. I am not trying at all to be mean when I say the horse is already out of the barn.

 

[LoyalViews]

Fr James Martin has continuously, question after question, presented an ambiguous response. Go to his Twitter - that’s his finest bureau. Yet he is absolutely pro-life. So yes, Fr Martin is full of love and I will never doubt it. He supports the soul from its conception, yet refuses to address the nature of suffering and chastity. He has supported the same-sex “relationship” in a romantic sense, which cannot truly exist in moral dream but also wishes to counsel those who experience such attractions.

But he has a rainbow-flag Absolut vodka bottle behind him. Vodka is fine, but that specific bottle?
He frequently defends same-sex love issues against his Twitter addresses.

 

[RandomAlias]

In a recent video Father James Martin; who is a highly respected Vatican Advisor and apointee by Pope Francis has stated without rebuke that we as Catholics should reverence gay unions.

I watched the video. I did not hear him say “reverence” gay unions – I might have missed it – but I heard something close to it. Fr. Martin raised a point to think about. At first blush it did not appear to be heretical.

He describing gay couples whose long-term relationships of 15 or 20 years have demonstrated great love. Nothing wrong with that. I think he was suggesting that we, including the Church, need to recognize that gay relationships can be loving, and if we recognize that there is love, we should examine why we condemn the relationship rather than accepting it. This is a good question. I don’t know the answer, but I have to thoughtfully consider any question that begins with the premise that love is good.

 

[SuperLuigi]

I think he was suggesting that we, including the Church, need to recognize that gay relationships can be loving, and if we recognize that there is love, we should examine why we condemn the relationship rather than accepting it.

Gay relationships are a lie. This is nothing but virtue-signaling with the times. Really, the same arguments were made for slavery and will be made in the future for acceptance of pedophilia.

I don’t know the answer,

That’s the problem. Simply saying “I don’t know, but I agree” is seen as some kind of virtue as long as you have the cool opinion.

but I have to thoughtfully consider any question that begins with the premise that love is good.

Not if it’s the version corrupted by Satan which is precisely what gay relationships are.

You are not doing any favors to GLBT persons by saying otherwise.

 

[RandomAlias]

RandomAlias:

I think he was suggesting that we, including the Church, need to recognize that gay relationships can be loving, and if we recognize that there is love, we should examine why we condemn the relationship rather than accepting it.

Gay relationships are a lie. This is nothing but virtue-signaling with the times. Really, the same arguments were made for slavery and will be made in the future for acceptance of pedophilia.

I don’t know the answer,

That’s the problem. Simply saying “I don’t know, but I agree” is seen as some kind of virtue as long as you have the cool opinion.

but I have to thoughtfully consider any question that begins with the premise that love is good.

Not if it’s the version corrupted by Satan which is precisely what gay relationships are.

You are not doing any favors to GLBT persons by saying otherwise.

Seems like a rather personal attack. I’m talking about Fr. Martin and gay unions, and you’re talking about me. Isn’t that the definition of ad hominem?

“Virtue signalling.” One of your favorite jabs.

Fr. Martin is going out on a limb. Truly, I have regarded him with suspicion, but I respect his courage, and as I learn more about him, I admire his love for the outcast and neglected of our Church.

I didn’t hear him say anything heretical. I heard nothing about changing the doctrine or instituting gay marriage. I heard him talking about love, and this gets my attention.

@SuperLuigi, did you watch the video (see post 8)? Have you read Fr. Martin’s book? Do you even know what he has said or written, or are you just repeating what you have heard from his other detractors?

 

[0Scarlett_nidiyilii]

I think because it boils down to the fundamental definition of the word “love”.
I mean, I hear LGBT activists defend the right to “love” who “they” choose.
I say that’s too narrow.
Christians don’t love who they choose. They love who Jesus tells us to love–God first, and then the whole world–the neighbor, even the enemy.
So, even if you don’t support homosexual acts, you could make the case that a long term relationship has elements of love, or friendship or affinity or what have you.
You can see this, but still maintain, with logical consistency, that sex outside of marriage is a sin.
That goes for long-term heterosexual non-marital relationships where sex is involved.
But anyone who calls themself Christian , whether gay or straight, has an obligation to love.

 

[Mary888]

Father Martin should specify if he is referring to white weddings (no sex involved and a vow of chastity being taken in front of the altar) between gays or not.

 

[Prodigal_Son]

yes the young strugglers who haven’t done anything but are curious, agreed. Want them to have help and right kind of support.

It’s worth realizing that very few Catholic parents or educators have any idea how to provide such support. An 11-year-old kid is not going to tell his Catholic mom or dad he thinks he’s gay unless the mom or dad have first talked to him in a way that makes him realize it’s OK to do so. Are parents taught how to do that? If not, then the kid will be 17 and having sex with the same sex before the parents even know there is a problem.