Federal Executions Pit The Trump Administration Against The Catholic Church

[F_Marturana]

The man scheduled for execution tonight was convicted of felony murder. Another of his codefendants actually did the killing,

His name is Brandon Bernard.

Lord have mercy.

 

[VanitasVanitatum]

Catholics believe in objective morality.

The circumstances and intention can make the death penalty immoral. They can’t make an immoral thing moral though.

 

[Victoria33]

They described the man, he shot a man in the head, he shot the woman in the head but she likely or did in fact survive,I believe, they were both put in a car trunk and he set the car on fire. She was burned to death it sounds like.

 

[RootKitWarrior]

For a Catholic, the Church has already spoken on the death penalty today.

And the context of that is in the eye of the beholder, otherwise we would not be debating it on this thread.

 

[MikeInVA]

but now we see that it doesn’t serve the common good.

Morals are not relative to time and place.

 

[MikeInVA]

The circumstances and intention can make the death penalty immoral.

The death penalty can be (and has been) abused, yes.

 

[ReaderT]

The executions will not make society any safer.

Some might say that when potential criminals see their counterparts on death row being executed at a regular pace, this deters crime, because it makes the threat of punishment more concrete.

(Personally I oppose the death penalty of course, but just playing devil’s advocate).

The Church didn’t change it’s teaching. The death penalty was permitted by States if it served the common good. Being conditional upon that end has always been explicit.

I struggle with understanding this viewpoint in Catholicism - the sacredness of human life is situational and conditional? Our dignity and “right to life” are not inherent in our human essence but are changeable according to circumstances?

 

[OneSheep]

Morals are not relative to time and place.

The death penalty has never been a matter of morality, but a matter of punishment and prudent practice of protecting society.

One of the changes over years is the realization that the “hit” on human dignity outweighs the tiny (modern) chance of a murderer escaping. Upholding human dignity trumped the tiny, practically non-existent, possibility of repeated offense.

 

[RootKitWarrior]

The death penalty has never been a matter of morality, but a matter of punishment and prudent practice of protecting society.

And more often then not to settle one’s sense of revenge and quench the blood lust of spectators.

In our barbaric days, the execution of the death penalty was a public affair. Residents of the community would gather to witness the event. More often than not they would cheer and revel in the event.

 

[F_Marturana]

For those who might not know:

FELONY MURDER Definition & Usage Examples | Dictionary.com

Brandon Bernard was convicted of felony murder.

Someone else committed the actual killing. Two other accomplices are no longer in prison because they were minors.

 

[Feanor2]

Will Biden have the authority to stop federal executions again when he is sworn in?

 

[F_Marturana]

Yes he will be able to.

 

[TMC]

Yes, in fact the only reason these executions are happening is because AG Barr (a Catholic) has sped them up to try to get a few more killings done before he is out of office.

 

[pnewton]

And the context of that is in the eye of the beholder, otherwise we would not be debating it on this thread.

Regretfully, too may Catholic see it that way. I mean of course, Pope Francis, The Man, The Big Kahuna, Top Banana, etc., and he did so building on what each of the last two popes have said. But even rolling back the clock to Saint John Paul, this execution was immoral. There is no argument to be made that it was and exceptional or rare case needed for the protection of society.

 

[MikeInVA]

There is not argument to be made that it was and exceptional or rare case needed for the protection of society.

No argument is necessary. The Church recognizes that civil governments have the authority to use capital punishment.

 

[TMC]

No argument is necessary. The Church recognizes that civil governments have the authority to use capital punishment.

I don’t know that the Church comments on what political authority a government has or lacks, but the Church has made clear that the use of capital punishment is immoral.

 

[MikeInVA]

the Church has made clear that the use of capital punishment is immoral.

Please post where the Church says that capital punishment is “immoral.”

 

[pnewton]

pnewton:

There is not argument to be made that it was and exceptional or rare case needed for the protection of society.

No argument is necessary. The Church recognizes that civil governments have the authority to use capital punishment.

Of course. They have the authority to execute people for theft ( or being a Jew). That is the nature of authority. It is not pro-life morality.

 

[vz71]

I struggle with understanding this viewpoint in Catholicism - the sacredness of human life is situational and conditional?

No. But there are situations in which a criminal is considered such a threat that the only way to keep the public safe is to execute them.
The take the Pope has taken is that it is now technically possible to lock someone away from the public for the rest of their life; therefore execution is simply not a valid option.
This may be, but we also have a flawed judicial system, and it is exceedingly rare to see someone actually serve that type of sentence.
I believe it could be argued both ways, and have not come to a conclusion myself.

Our dignity and “right to life” are not inherent in our human essence but are changeable according to circumstances?

No, our dignity and right to life do not change based upon circumstances.
It is tragic every time the state executes a criminal.

 

[MikeInVA]

The take the Pope has taken is that it is now technically possible to lock someone away from the public for the rest of their life; therefore execution is simply not a valid option.

But I’ve also read that the Pope considers a life sentence to essentially be a death sentence.