I disagree because I think it’s ineffective and more expensive at this scope than I think you’re thinking. A monitor costs about $7K and US inmates actually pay for the privilege of house arrest (didn’t know that until I started looking this stuff up). And then there’s this:
It depends on which law the parents are breaking.
Give me an example, a law for which we should still lock up the childless,
I would be glad to elaborate.
This is precisely the right question to ask because it correctly frames the issue as a balance between competing values. On one hand we have the value of avoiding separation trauma for the children. On the other hand we have the value of executing the proper punishment for infractions of the law. I said that how these two values compare to each other depends on the nature of the law that was broken.
That was not the dichotomy I was considering.LeafByNiggle:
Give me an example, a law for which we should still lock up the childless,
but not adults with children?
I see illegal entry into a foreign nation as far more serious than public intoxication or vandalism, or even the A1 level (worst) misdemeanor of death by vehicle, because that can be an accident, where waltzing across a border is a choice.
My guess is Theo thinks you’d differentiate.
Can you justify why crossing the border per se is such a serious crime? The fact that it is a choice does not seem to me to be reason enough to declare it “serious.”LeafByNiggle:
I see illegal entry into a foreign nation as far more serious than public intoxication or vandalism, or even the A1 level (worst) misdemeanor of death by vehicle, because that can be an accident, where waltzing across a border is a choice.
It blows my mind that people are so casual about it - “it’s just a misdemeanor”. It’s as if borders and the laws that govern them are meaningless or suddenly insignificant.
I wonder if someone vandalized your house you’d be so calm. After all, that’s only a misdemeanor offense.
Quite sensible, actually. Detaining an adult travelling alone does not perform any family separation that was not already in effect.LeafByNiggle:
My guess is Theo thinks you’d differentiate.
All of this has been about separating families. No one seems to care that childless illegal aliens are also being detained.
Interesting.
But that is the dichotomy you stated,
Until you brought up childless refugees I had not commented on them. So there is nothing for me to walk away from.LeafByNiggle:
But that is the dichotomy you stated,
don’t walk away from it when I present it as a question.
Don’t be evasive, what crimes should we release parents for that we shouldn’t for non-parents?
Because as an ex-Federal cop (I was an Air Force military working dog handler when I was enlisted), I see it as a wanton choice to break a known law. They choose to do it. Unless you’re a minor/dependent child (I am 100% for the DREAMER Act), you chose to break the law.
Yes, I understand it is choice to break the law. As to whether or not it is “wanton” I am not so sure:LeafByNiggle:
Because as an ex-Federal cop (I was an Air Force military working dog handler when I was enlisted), I see it as a wanton choice to break a known law. They choose to do it. Unless you’re a minor/dependent child (I am 100% for the DREAMER Act), you chose to break the law.
Big difference. Simple explanation.
1.
(of a cruel or violent action) deliberate and unprovoked.
"sheer wanton vandalism"
synonyms: deliberate, willful, malicious, spiteful, wicked, cruel; More
gratuitous, unprovoked, motiveless, arbitrary, groundless, unjustifiable, needless, unnecessary, uncalled for, senseless, pointless, purposeless, meaningless, empty, random;
capricious
"wanton destruction"
antonyms: justifiable
2.
(especially of a woman) sexually immodest or promiscuous.
synonyms: promiscuous, immoral, immodest, indecent, shameless, unchaste, fast, loose, impure, abandoned, lustful, lecherous, lascivious, libidinous, licentious, dissolute, debauched, degenerate, corrupt, whorish, disreputable
"a wanton seductress"
antonyms: chaste
3.
archaic
growing profusely; luxuriant.
"where wanton ivy twines"
lively; playful.
"a wanton fawn"The choice to cross the border is a CONSCIOUS choice. Break a law, take your chances. And as for your spitting on sidewalk, it would be in Singapore, where it can send you straight to jail. In the States, it just highlights one as uncultured, uncouth - and disgusting.
When you use a word like “wanton” incorrectly to make a point that you cannot make with reason alone, it needs to be called out. I stand by my statement that border crossing all by itself is not so serious that it always warrants incarceration.
It’s not incorrect in the least, though. That’s the thing. It’s just not. And that was a perfectly reasonable point. Funny that you think it’s not, and that you pointed that out by starting a sidebar on syntax. You knew precisely what I meant, so let’s move on. The pedantism is just unnecessary.