Fifty Years of the Catholic Charismatic Movement: 1967-2017

[Reuben_J]

“More importantly it is about Renewal of the faith of the person concerned.”
So if we broaden the definition, any Catholic anywhere can be a “charismatic.” Fascinating!

Actually, yes, except that they are not the Catholic Charismatic Renewal movements.

What you do not realize is that many Catholics find deep faith through the action of the Holy Spirit and they may not necessarily in the Charismatic renewal movements. Nobody is claiming that you must be in the CCR to be renewed.

The Holy Spirit works in many ways that we cannot underrstand.

It is a fact that CCR consider that the Blessed Virgin Mary as the first Charismatic when she accepted the Holy Spirit.

You may be surprised, there are many in the CCR who do not have the Charismatic gifts and yet they live their lives as committed Christians in some of the Charismatic Renewal movements.

You need to wise up and find more about the Renewal in the Catholic Church instead of some wrongly perceived view of it.

 

[rhjohnson1952]

I was in the Seminary in the early 70s. I remember charismatic movement retreats coming to the retreat center. I had work study in the retreat center so I helped that group set things up for their retreats. There was a Bi-Ritual priest who had the Liturgy during the retreat. I helped him set up the byzantine style chapel area. Can’t remember his name. Wonder if any of you charismatics on here remember him. Ralph Martin came once. He was younger and very “Charismatic”, almost like a smarter Joel Olsteen. Never felt good around him. Sketchy! Had a lot of people around him.The people there got used to me being there. I got “baptized” and even spoke in tongues. I remember stepping back from it all when they would leave and every time I would come back to, “this is protestant”. Even the Catholics in it at that time were like catholics who wanted to stay in the Church but wanted something different. They were very anti-tradition, anti-authority, evangelical, all inclusive and essentially wanted those not catholic to accept the catholic church. “See we can accept Jesus in our heart too”. I can’t believe people on here are talking about Kathryn Kulman. Loved her but a straight up entertainer; Aimee Simple McPherson, Bennie Hinn. Remember even Mother Angelica was somewhat part of that movement. It was a movement of the 60s and 70s. A sign of the times. A lot of emotionalism, me generation, feelings, feel good, everyone is welcome even to communion if the “spirit” says it’s OK. People and dare I say priests and nuns made changes because their were “lead by the spirit”. It’s the same as what my baptist brother-in-law says , “we don’t need a priest to tell us what to do, Just the bible”. Anyway, that’s all I have to say really. Lastly though I remember when the retreat would be coming and I was backing away, supporting them and glad to see them all but not participating. Some of them would see me on the campus and approach me and tell me they were praying for me to come back “to the truth”. When I look at it now, seems like sad people trying to find a way to be happy. Again, very 60s and 70s. We’re in 2018 now dawg…let’s help the Church be what it already is.

 

[Prodigal_Son]

Well, this thread is surprisingly charitable and lacking in rancor!

Glad to see it.

 

[commenter]

recognition as a Public Association with Pontifical Right of the laity instead of private, as it is now. The former will therefore be a Dicastery of the Roman Curia and therefore a part of the Church that binds on all the local ordinaries.

“Binds”? It’s a little troubling if this or other movements seek to get a kind of super-recognition that partially exempts them from local episcopal oversight. When I was in the charismatic movement, there occasionally were people who said “we need to follow the Spirit, not some bishop”. (Outside the Charismatic movement, for instance, the SSPX, among others, wants an agreement where they would deal with the Vatican, directly and only, with no “interference” by local ordinaries). Other kinds of groups demand a kind of “Vatican protection” from the local ordinary.

Spiritual pride is the vice that tempts us to exaggerate the Spirit working through me, and my little group, and ignore the Spirit working normally through the sacrament of ordination, through the episcopacy, or through boring entities like dioceses. I trust that most charismatics would feel “bound” by the authority (Spirit) working through the local ordinary. Usually the bishop knows the local situation better than the Vatican, both the charismatic groups and the local pastoral context into which it fits.

The good in the Charismatic movement far outweighs the abuses, but if there are problems, (there will always be some) I would hope charismatics would want unbound local support to correct those problems, rather than exemption from local oversight.

 

[anon10271182]

Spiritual pride is the vice that tempts us to exaggerate the Spirit working through me, and my little group, and ignore the Spirit working normally through the sacrament of ordination, through the episcopacy, or through boring entities like dioceses

Very well stated.

 

[EvangelistVictor]

Our adversary, the devil will do everything in his power to keep us from receiving this new life in the power of the Holy Spirit.

He will say things like, you don’t need the power of the Holy Spirit because you already have the sacraments. Or, that is only for those crazy fanatics. Or that stuff is not real, all made up emotionalism.

He will do anything it takes to steal the gift Christ has by the infilling of the Holy Spirit. Be victorious in Christ, and don’t let our enemy defeat us.

 

[TheLittleLady]

If He is not invited to speak or act in Catholicism, he speaks elsewhere to shame Catholics.

Provide the documentation for this from the official Dogma and Doctrine of the Church. Show me where the Holy Spirit shames the Holy Mother Church.

 

[TheLittleLady]

 

[EvangelistVictor]

Just because you didn’t experience anything doesn’t invalidate it. Its up to God to send forth his Spirit and fully fill us.

When’s the last time you read the whole Book of Acts? I encourage you to read it again with an open mind and let God speak to you through His words, not ours.

 

[Reuben_J]

Reuben_J:

recognition as a Public Association with Pontifical Right of the laity instead of private, as it is now. The former will therefore be a Dicastery of the Roman Curia and therefore a part of the Church that binds on all the local ordinaries.

“Binds”?

It is just my manner of speaking … because if it is part of the Church the local ordinaries therefore cannot reject those who practice the Charismatic spirituality in his diocese. But we will see about that.

Probably Bishops (those who have problem with this) have to accept that there are Catholics who do choose this spirituality and the local Bishops cannot just ban them from his diocese.

Of course, there is not much problem now about Bishops banning the CCR locally but if it has a dicastery of its own in the Vatican, the officiality of it would be never be in doubt.

As it is now, lots of information about the CCR was not known and some ordinaries may just take an ad hoc decision on their own depending on whether they like the CCR or not.

The FCCCC, for example, do have statutes recognized by the Vatican, governing their existence in the diocese, but there may be problem with a member Community or two in their local diocese whereby they are not allowed to exist.

So perhaps those problem may be more clearly stated once the CCR becomes a Public Association with Pontifical Right for the Laity.

 

[Prodigal_Son]

Ever watch a choreographed dance that is pretty wild or exciting or energetic? For instance, Fred Astaire. It IS hyperactive, and some good dances like that are animalistic and primordial. However, NONE of them are erratic. Same with the Holy Spirit. Enthusiasm is good. Bodies are good. Basic needs are good. If these are put into motion, or put into song, that too can be good. But it cannot be good if it is erratic or if its manifestation runs contrary to the nature of God. SOME charismatic groups cross that line, and they should be reformed. Other charismatic groups do nothing unscriptural, and simply follow the “leading” of the Holy Spirit wherever He dances.

The Spirit might SEEM erratic to us, but the wind moves where it pleases, and moves with purpose. He moves with purpose.

 

[EvangelistVictor]

Don’t worry about the gifts so much, or even at all at this point. Christ desires us to be constantly Holy Spirit filled. Because when were filled with the Holy Spirit, we won’t give in to the desires of the flesh. This is how I was able to overcome my past sins. These things the Holy Spirits power liberated me from: drugs, pornograghy, fornication, drunkenness, etc… and he’s still helping me in other area’s too. We’re not 100% Saints yet.

Galatians 5:16 New American Bible (Revised Edition) (NABRE)
16 I say, then: live by the Spirit and you will certainly not gratify the desire of the flesh.

 

[Reuben_J]

Other charismatic groups do nothing unscriptural, and simply follow the “leading” of the Holy Spirit wherever He dances.

The Spirit might SEEM erratic to us, but the wind moves where it pleases, and moves with purpose. He moves with purpose.

Well said.

Spirit of God in the clear running water
Blowing to greatness the trees on the hill.
Spirit of God in the finger of morning:
Fill the earth, bring it to birth,
And blow where you will.
Blow, blow, blow till I be
But the breath of the Spirit blowing in me.

 

[EvangelistVictor]

For me it was and is a desire for the things of God unlike before. An awareness of evil in things like music, tv, movies, etc… that before didn’t bother me. When I wasn’t filled with the Spirit I didn’t have the desire to even go to church or mass on Sundays. A desire to share your faith with people around you unlike before. And many other things. I love worship music now too.

 

[Reuben_J]

In many cases it is quite simple. It is called the discernment of the spirit - is it the Holy Spirit, our own human spirir or the evil spirit?

The Holy Spirit would not contradict Himself, the Church and the Magisterium. Often the effect on the person is inner peace, greater love for God, the Church, the Sacraments, prayers, Bible, loving people, changes in character to the fruits of the Spirit.

The human spirit usually does not change us to be spiritually better. It does not have power in our spiritual life unlike the Holy Spirit.

The evil spirit would be quite obvious as it tells us to go against God and against the Church. For example - it will tell you not to pray to Mary for intercession.

Discernment usually is done by a group of matured Christians to get better counsel.

 

[theLordsvassal]

I am a former Protestant who converted to Catholicism. A couple of general points that do not relate precisely to any one comment I have read here:

1. Differences in experience or preference or even disagreements among believers are either an example of an acceptable diversity or something that the Holy Spirit will resolve over time through the authority of the church.
2. There is no spiritual gift that is incapable of being controlled; if it is a true gift, it operates according to the order established by the apostles [Paul wrote a lot on this] and is submitted to the authority of the church. Anything else is a false spirit [Satan coming as an angel of light, according to 2 Corinthians 11:14]. Of course, there is always the exuberance of youth, which is often undisciplined, and even the sincere Catholic may drift into this exuberance, if they are not yet mature. This is part of the process of growing up in the faith.

 

[Prodigal_Son]

This is a problem for any Christian, with any spiritual/emotional prompting of any sort. If I have been being kind to my friend, and I think, “Gosh, I’m a kind person”, this could be the vicious spirit of pride or it could be a godly type of self-confidence. We need to discern the spirits in order to find out which. Discerning the spirits is pretty much 95% of the entire spiritual life. It was the focus of the desert fathers, of the Eastern mystics, and of Saint Ignatius. It should be our focus, too. It’s not unique to the charismatic approach.

 

[EvangelistVictor]

The initial infilling of the Holy Spirit I knew the day and time it happened in 1994. I was still technically Catholic at that time, but had not been practicing since my youth, having received all the sacraments, baptism, 1st communion, confirmation, penance and reconciliation.

The day it happened I didn’t even know what was happening. While at work, I has some headphones on, and the batteries died on my walkman. I did a simple foolosh prayer for Jesus to recharge the batteries on walkman. Next thing I heard a big boom sound, that I don’t think anybody else heard. Then, I just felt different. Didn’t know what was happening to me. I went outside after work, and all the trees, flowers, sky looked soo new like I’ve never seen them before. On the way home, I turned to a local Christian radio station that said some people had received the Holy Spirit after reading the Book of Romans. When the preacher said those words, I immediately knew what had just happened to me. The feeling was and still is like warm honey flowing through my body. Some call it, the anointing of God.

The gifts of the Spirit didn’t start manifesting till years later, at different times, like prophesy, dreams, and visions, while I was an Evangelical. Then tongue’s happened a couple years latter during deep prayer. When tongues manifested, I had to leave the Evangelicals cause they hated tongues, and I joined the Assemblies of God. Years passed, went dead in the Spirit after leaving the Pentecostals in 2008, till this year, God refilled me.

It was soooooo hard getting refilled in the Holy Spirit this year. Took over a month of literally crying out to God, and coming back to the CC and confession to get renewed.

 

[guanophore]

All Catholics have experienced Baptism. Period. Whatever you are referring to, cannot be Baptism.

Baptism means to dip or to submerge. When one refers to “baptism in the Holy Spirit” is a reference to being submerged in the Life of the Spirit. This is the same Spirit Jesus said would come with fire.

I know nothing of the book, nor do I see it as relevant.

It is interesting that you would make this condemnation without knowing about it first. It seems to reflect a prejudiced opinion and closed mindedness.

But you specifically stated that you wanted all Catholics to experience something called “Baptism in Christ Holy Spirit”.

Do you have an objection to all Catholics being immersed in the Holy Spirit? Maybe you also reject the New Testament teachings on these matters?

you must know that Catholics have already been baptized, itmust be something else.

no, tafan2, this is false. We are all baptized with One Spirit. But some people have not unwrapped their gifts!

To refer to it as baptism, at the very least downplays the significance of our actual baptism

No.

At the worst, it us heretical.

No. And if you were willing to look at the book, you would find that the Church teaches otherwise.

We have all been baptized, that is an amazing event. It made us Children of God.

Yes, and at that time, all of us were given gifts. Many people have not opened their gifts or learned how to use them.

 

[po18guy]

Huh? You are demanding, of course, the impossible. I offered opinion, in case you had not noticed. I do not think it is unreasonable, looking at the big picture. - the last two, maybe three centuries.

Ask yourself: why the sudden appearance and rise of Pentecostalism? Could it not be found elsewhere?

Why did Catholics have to organize so as to re-focus on the “forgotten member of the Trinity”? - Those are not my words, in case you are wondering.