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JimR-OCDS
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Jim
Fighting over liturgy distorts purpose of Mass, papal liturgist says
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ChemicalBean
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Uh oh. Sounds like somebody’s got a case of the Mondays.
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ComplineSanFran
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But if that is what the priest wants…
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JimR-OCDS
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Never heard such style of music at Mass.
This cliche is so over used it’s become absurd.
Jim
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Tarpeian_Rock
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You’re so correct. It’s right up there with “clown Masses” as another utterly overused cliché.
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philipl
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I sure have, even now my church will do a song at the end of mass were folks start clapping.
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zz912
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They do this nonsense at the Life Teen Mass. It’s infuriating and pedantic.
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Tantum_ergo
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PM me, Jim, and I’ll tell you my parish where you can come and hear this EVERY.SINGLE.SUNDAY. Hope you enjoy ad libbed Masses! The reason clichés are clichés is that, indeed, the sentiments expressed are or have been true at some point to a great extent. Thank goodness apparently in a lot of places this style is less in place than it is here.
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JimR-OCDS
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You’re probably referring to music I played at Mass, i.e. The St Louis Jesuits and such.
It’s not from the 60’s and 70’s and hardly hippie music.
Jim
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Don_Ruggero
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Far from infuriating, I found the Life Teen Masses to be among the ones I was most pleased to preside at during my time in the United States.
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Tantum_ergo
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Jim, I grew up in the 60s and 70s and my older sister **was **a hippie. Woodstock and all.
And I played in the folk group at college Mass from 1974-1978. Songs that I did then are still done here, so yes, they are 70s music (or even 60s. The Prayer of St. Francis --Make me a Channel of your peace I sang at St Albert the Great outside Philly in 1969. ) And good old “Let there be peace on earth”, “Peace is flowing like a river”, ‘the spirit is a movin’ etc. are all sung here.)
Before the Sun Burned Bright is our alleluia (before the gospel) and has been since the end of summer. (heck I remember in the 70s the original line being "you are my sons’ but now it’s ‘I am your God’. Just because some of these songs have a few words changed to the PC doesn’t make them no longer 70s songs.)
So the 60s, the 70s, the 80s ‘redos’ etc, are still here at Mass. And apparently I’m not the only one to see it and to experience it again.
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JimR-OCDS
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I too grew up in the 60’s and I never heard any so-called hippie music at Mass.
Even when groups began playing at my parish, they played mostly music from The Monks of the Weston Priory and the current artist of the late 70’s, none of which would be called hippies.
When I started playing in the early 90’s, after being drafted to lead the group, we played The Monks from the Weston Priory, The St Louis Jesuits, John Michael Talbot and other contemporary artists. All the music I chose was in the Glory and Praise Hymnal.
Again, no hippie music, but I’m sure some people just seeing guitars at Mass, thought it was hippie music.
Jim
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zz912
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I’ve personally found them to be little more than emotional pablum that reeks of protestant infection and lacking in proper reverence and focus on the Eucharist.
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JimR-OCDS
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Havard
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“Theological, liturgical, and aesthetic beauty and depth”, as Cardinal Arinze phrased it, is a succinct outline for reverential music.
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Tantum_ergo
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Jim, the fact that your personal experience with playing in your parish did not involve hippies music or 60s or 70s music does not mean that others of us have not had the experience in our parishes.
(Also the Weston Priory monks wrote a lot in the 1970s. I should know as the folk group I spoke of was in a church in Vermont and so well, these were LOCALS we did music thereof).
Many of us are more than capable, having the musical knowledge, of discerning whether a guitarist in Church is playing something like Silent Night (yes, the melody was composed for a guitar originally), something from Haugen in the 1980s, something from Bob Hurd in the 1990s, something from Stephen Warner in 2000, (all Church musicians), or folk songs like The Spirit is a Moving, or pieces from the 1970s such as “All I Ask of You”, And I will Raise You up", “A Child is born” (Weston Priory), etc. We don’t see guitars and automatically think, “Oh no, hippie music!”
An organ likewise not automatically instill, "oh NO, hundred-year-old dirge music’ either. I know you won’t believe me but I have heard the organ playing (admittedly for wedding ceremonies) such pieces as “Jesse” (I won’t bring fresh flowers for you), ‘Barry Manilow’s
“Could it be Magic”, and Christopher Cross’ “Sailing”. So I don’t look at an organ either and think, “Ah, traditional old Church standards” either!
Now mind, Jim, this is not a personal piece trying to call you out or anything, far from it. I’m sure that your personal experience has been exactly as you say.
But please do realize that just because other people have different experiences from yours, it doesn’t mean that they have been mistaken, or that things like 60s and 70s and hippie music are not still being played at parishes in the U.S. They have been and they are. (I offer it up, myself, so in that sense, I’m pretty much going along with what the article says. That doesn’t mean that I can’t wish it were different.)
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Maximilan_Kolbe
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Given we have a topic which features arguing over whether or not churches have been infested with hippie music and whether or not one finds Life Teen masses to be a reverent experience, I doubt we are anywhere close to ending fighting over the actual liturgy.
I have my preferences, but would settle for broadly appealing options for both more modern N.O. masses and traditional Latin masses (though these involve more than different music) if most dioceses were actually given these choices. Far too many don’t provide a TLM option, even in areas where the Priest himself is comfortable and well-versed.
I have my preferences, but would settle for broadly appealing options for both more modern N.O. masses and traditional Latin masses (though these involve more than different music) if most dioceses were actually given these choices. Far too many don’t provide a TLM option, even in areas where the Priest himself is comfortable and well-versed.
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JimR-OCDS
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JimR-OCDS
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The late 60’s and early 70’s, there was a lack of contemporary music in the Church, for the new liturgy was relatively new.
In time, the music got better and more suited for liturgical use.
Gregorian Chant is nice, for people to listen to, but you’ll get hardly any participation from the congregation singing Gregorian Chant when a qualified choir is doing it.
Heck, we don’t have experts in Gregorian Chant nor even composers of classical liturgical music.
Weddings are a place where there was some abuse in music back in the 70’s and the Vatican finally shut down rock Masses in Italy for they were being performed by heavy metal bands using music which had nothing to do with the Liturgy. The Electric Prunes Latin Mass was good, but not for actual Mass.
In all of my liturgical experience, and I was a pre-Vatican II Catholic, I never heard hippie music at Mass.
Paul Stookey’s “Wedding Song,” was a beautiful song for a wedding, along with Canon in D.
But these would never be sung at Sunday Mass and my group never sang them.
But again, it was a process of evolving after the new Liturgy was introduced and the Bishops were given time to experiment with it.
As it is, many of the parishes are using the GIA book of Liturgical Readings and Hymns and its the only one allowed by the Bishops in many Dioceses.
You played in a group so you know the problems the Church had with copyright infringements back in the 70’s
Jim
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