Fights as Spanish Civil War clergy are beatified

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bones_IV said:
Let’s see…Ronald Rychlak says,

p. 152-153 "Hitler, the War, and the Pope.

"In September 1940, Hitler traveled to the French town of Hendaye to meet with Spanish leader, General Francisco Franco. Hilter wanted Spain to enter the war, and he offered Franco arms, raw materials, and colonies. Spain, however, had not yet recovered from it’s civil war; it did not need a new foreign one. Besides, Franco’s revolution had been against Communism. How could he now side with Hitler, who was cooperating (and soon would be allied) with the Soviet Union? Hitler did not give up that easily, but Franco and his “Jesuit swine” foreign minister. (Later in the war, Franco opened up Spain’s border to Jews who were fleeing Nazi persecution. Pope Pius XII was able to help thousands reach safety in Spain.).
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Yes, he did extend that humanitarian gesture to the Jews. No one denies that. But, he certainly contributed to the German war effort by sending his troops to fight our ally.
 
bones_IV said:
And if it weren’t for the United States entering the War the allies would have lost.
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Only in the sense that the United States was the arsenal of the free world. But, not militarily. The Red Army was already in Warsaw by the time of the D-Day invasion, and had the Germans on the run before the invasion. The USSR would have ultimately defeated Germany though at high cost and time.
 
Richardols said:
Yes, he did extend that humanitarian gesture to the Jews. No one denies that. But, he certainly contributed to the German war effort by sending his troops to fight our ally.
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That doesn’t make sense. Why would you offer humanitarian aid to Jews while supporting the very government that persecuted them. Franco was in cooperation w/ the Soviet Union. You obviously didn’t read my comment.
 
bones_IV said:
That doesn’t make sense. Why would you offer humanitarian aid to Jews while supporting the very government that persecuted them.
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The humanitarian gesture had nothing to do with sending his troops to the Soviet Union.

Even Japan gave some protection to Jews, and it certainly supported Germany’s war aims.
 
Richardols said:
The humanitarian gesture had nothing to do with sending his troops to the Soviet Union.

Even Japan gave some protection to Jews, and it certainly supported Germany’s war aims.
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Spain was neutral Japan was Germany’s ally no?
 
The leftists will never get over the fact that the communists LOST the Spanish Civil War. Franco won. They’ll never forgive him.
 
Richardols said:
Oh, yeah. Cheer for the tyrant.

Here’s what the Spanish Parliament finally got around to doing:

boston.com/news/world/europe/articles/2007/10/31/spain_parliament_passes_civil_war_law/?rss_id=Boston.com+%2F+News
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General Franco and his wife prayed the rosary everyday. When the war ended Franco laid his sword on the altar and vowed that Spaniards would never shed each others blood again. He kept Spain out of WWII. Now, 40 years after his death, Spain is pro-abortion, pro homosexual and anti-Catholic.
 
bones_IV said:
General Franco and his wife prayed the rosary everyday.
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Such piety. After which, I suppose, he’d order people jailed or shot. Saying some prayers mitigates his tyranny?
When the war ended Franco laid his sword on the altar and vowed that Spaniards would never shed each others blood again.
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But, as another poster noted, his Falangists went on killing nonetheless.
He kept Spain out of WWII.
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Except to send troops to fight our major ally. And, aside from that, big deal. The Swedes and the Swiss and the Irish kept their countries out of WWII, too.
Now, 40 years after his death, Spain is pro-abortion, pro homosexual and anti-Catholic.
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The last is the Church’s fault. As for the first two, so is America. Want a tyrant dictator here?
 
Richardols said:
But, as another poster noted, his Falangists went on killing nonetheless.
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That’s not his fault.
Richardols said:
Except to send troops to fight our major ally. And, aside from that, big deal. The Swedes and the Swiss and the Irish kept their countries out of WWII, too.
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And why aren’t u criticizing them?
Richardols said:
The last is the Church’s fault. As for the first two, so is America. Want a tyrant dictator here?
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:rotfl:Try reading the Last Crusade: Spain: 1936, by Dr. Carroll. Franco’s government was in no way oppressive of Catholics. Dr. Carrol will give you a similar answer. Solid evidence shows Franco to have been a sincere and a great Catholic. Despite your liberal propaganda to unreasonably criticize Escriva or any Spanish Catholic for prefering Franco over the alternatives, as the lesser of evils is dumb. What is especially galling is that such criticisms often comes from liberal Catholics who are pro-choice like yourself or support pro-choice politicians, when the murder of the innocent and defenseless unborn is an on-going abomination. To criticize Spaniards because they chose Franco over Communism, when American political society chooses abortion freely and without coercion, simply shows your hypocrisy.
 
bones_IV said:
That’s not his fault.
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Yes it is. A leader is always responsible for the actions of his subordinates or for not taking action to prosecute or discipline them. General Yamashita, for example, who arrived to command Japanese forces in the Philippines virtually at the end of the war, and who was either not aware of the atrocities that were committed, or was unable to properly control his soldiers, was nevertheless hanged for it. Franco deserved no less.
And why aren’t u criticizing them?
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Why should I?
:rotfl:
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What do you deny? That there’s abortion and open homosexual activity in America, or that the Spanish Church was the cause of its own downfall?
 
Richardols said:
Yes it is. A leader is always responsible for the actions of his subordinates or for not taking action to prosecute or discipline them. General Yamashita, for example, who arrived to command Japanese forces in the Philippines virtually at the end of the war, and who was either not aware of the atrocities that were committed, or was unable to properly control his soldiers, was nevertheless hanged for it. Franco deserved no less.
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Unless you’ve been reading writers like Hemingway and painters like Picasso, of portrayals by actors like Gary Cooper in Hemingway’s For Whom the Bell Tolls and Humphrey Bogart in Casablanca (Rick’s history included fighting in that war) I can see why you would think that.
 
bones_IV said:
Try reading the Last Crusade: Spain: 1936, by Dr. Carroll. Franco’s government was in no way oppressive of Catholics. Dr. Carrol will give you a similar answer.
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Did I say that he oppressed Catholics? No. The Church allied itself so closely with the Fascists and the rich, that it itself caused its own meltdown. Secularization began as soon as Franco was dead. Why should anyone pay attention to the Church given its record?
 
bones_IV said:
Unless you’ve been reading writers like Hemingway and painters like Picasso, of portrayals by actors like Gary Cooper in Hemingway’s For Whom the Bell Tolls and Humphrey Bogart in Casablanca (Rick’s history included fighting in that war) I can see why you would think that.
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Think what? That a leader is responsible for the actions of subordinates? Haven’t you heard of “the buck stops here”?
 
bones_IV said:
You can tell that Dr. Warren H. Carrol and not me. Thank you.
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I’m sure he’ll confirm that Spain became secular starting with the death of the Dictator, and that the Church lost influence since even before that. The Church reaped what it had sown by being such a stauch ally and supporter of the Establishment in Spain.
 
Richardols said:
I’m sure he’ll confirm that Spain became secular starting with the death of the Dictator, and that the Church lost influence since even before that. The Church reaped what it had sown by being such a stauch ally and supporter of the Establishment in Spain.
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Spain kept itself from being invaded by terrorists for centuries.
 
bones_IV said:
Spain kept itself from being invaded by terrorists for centuries.
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Terrorists? The countryside always had its share of of bandits, cutthroats, rapists and other terrorists and they were Spaniards themselves.

But, are you claiming that Franco was the one who kept all those terrorists at bay for centuries?
 
Now the Moors are terrorists?

Franco ruled Spain with an iron fist…I’m still failing to see how that was a good thing. Oppression ≠ a good.
 
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