Filipino Catholics Helpless???

[porthos11]

GAssisi:

Dear Dhgray,

I have mixed feelings about Couples for Christ. The ones I have encountered here in the US are very well-informed about Catholicism and willing to defend it against Protestant misconceptions. However, the ones I have met in the Philippines have less of such a demanor - they don’t want to stir the waters, more interested in unity with Protestants through the love of the Spirit, than with defending the Faith. Some of those I have met are not even aware that anti-Catholicism exists. They simply see Protestants as brothers and sisters in Christ - nothing wrong with that, mind you, but it should not be so at the expense of Truth.

God bless,
Greg

Greg,

I’m afraid not only CFC, but most other communities here as well. I’ve noticed the vast majority of so-called ‘renewed’ Catholics here are…should I say…afraid or unwilling to go into discussions on a more intellectual level. That’s why here in the Islands, you always here the same teachings being given: evangelization, Christian Life, Christian Marriage, sharing God’s goodness…all good stuff, yes, and stuff we need to hear too. But I really think only a few are willing to, as you say, stir the waters. Only a few want to listen to talks on Biblical exegesis, ancient cultures, sacred history, Liturgy, the Catechism (like reading the Constitution, some say), Vatican II. Even if they had some part of these, they would at least have the confidence to tell a Protestant missionary that, “I may not remember it now, but I know that the Bible says this … somewhere.”

I donno if that’s what the other kabayans here perceive as well.

Dili unta ta angay mahadlok sa mga lawom nga mga pagtudlo uy. Kalami ra sa atong pagtu-o a!

 

[RobedWithLight]

porthos11:

Greg,

I’m afraid not only CFC, but most other communities here as well. I’ve noticed the vast majority of so-called ‘renewed’ Catholics here are…should I say…afraid or unwilling to go into discussions on a more intellectual level. That’s why here in the Islands, you always here the same teachings being given: evangelization, Christian Life, Christian Marriage, sharing God’s goodness…all good stuff, yes, and stuff we need to hear too. But I really think only a few are willing to, as you say, stir the waters. Only a few want to listen to talks on Biblical exegesis, ancient cultures, sacred history, Liturgy, the Catechism (like reading the Constitution, some say), Vatican II. Even if they had some part of these, they would at least have the confidence to tell a Protestant missionary that, “I may not remember it now, but I know that the Bible says this … somewhere.”

I likewise share your sentiments. In the Philippines, there seems to be a widespread unwillingness among Filipino Catholics to call a spade a spade, and to tell what is black from white, perhaps due to ignorance, apathy or perhaps fear of being accused of “sowing” disunity with other Christians. The rise of renewal movements, though commendable within the Church, it seems has been accompanied by the rise of indifferentism among Catholics, that is, the idea that since Catholics and Protestants are brother Christians and pray to the same God, we should all get along fine, and differences no longer matter. The uniqueness of the Church’s salvific mission is conveniently glossed over. Apologetics is either unheard of or dismissed outright (even by some Catholics) as being “uncharitable”, “unchristian”, and “an exercise in arrogance” which is very unfortunate since Catholics, as faithful sons of the Church, have a duty to explain and if possible, defend what they believe.

Gerry

 

[dhgray]

RobedWithLight:

I likewise share your sentiments. In the Philippines, there seems to be a widespread unwillingness among Filipino Catholics to call a spade a spade, and to tell what is black from white, perhaps due to ignorance, apathy or perhaps fear of being accused of “sowing” disunity with other Christians. The rise of renewal movements, though commendable within the Church, it seems has been accompanied by the rise of indifferentism among Catholics, that is, the idea that since Catholics and Protestants are brother Christians and pray to the same God, we should all get along fine, and differences no longer matter. The uniqueness of the Church’s salvific mission is conveniently glossed over. Apologetics is either unheard of or dismissed outright (even by some Catholics) as being “uncharitable”, “unchristian”, and “an exercise in arrogance” which is very unfortunate since Catholics, as faithful sons of the Church, have a duty to explain and if possible, defend what they believe.

Gerry

We have the same problem in the USA. BUT until we start to stand up and make a difference. If you live in the Philippines, you have to know what the GK is doing. www.gawadkalinga.org.

 

[Theodora]

Years ago I attended a debate between Karl Keating and Iglesia ni Kristo. The debate was held in San Diego. Karl was debating not 1 person, but three at the same time. The one he was actually talking to, and two others who were feeding the debater the answers by looking things up on a computer.

Karl, I think at the time, just started out as a apologetic debater.

Do you remember this debate, Karl?

Theodora

 

[preyoflove]

Is this the debate on the Divinity of our Lord, where Mr. Keating quoted St. Thomas’ words “My Lord and my God” after touching His wounds at which the INC debater simply replied that St. Thomas was mistaken?

Shalom, amen.

 

[Theodora]

preyoflove:

Is this the debate on the Divinity of our Lord, where Mr. Keating quoted St. Thomas’ words “My Lord and my God” after touching His wounds at which the INC debater simply replied that St. Thomas was mistaken?

Shalom, amen.

I am not sure. It could be - but then, it might also have been on Sola Scriptura or Which Is The True Church of Christ.

It has been too long ago. I don’t think it would be an exaggeration to say “10 years ago.”

May God Be With You

Theodora

 

[RobedWithLight]

preyoflove:

Is this the debate on the Divinity of our Lord, where Mr. Keating quoted St. Thomas’ words “My Lord and my God” after touching His wounds at which the INC debater simply replied that St. Thomas was mistaken?

Shalom, amen.

The INC debater I believe, is suggesting that Thomas was merely expressing surprise (nagulat), rather than expressing a statement of faith, and thus showed his ignorance of the Jewish mindset since Jews, even to this day hold the name of God with such high reverence that they would never even utter the name of God in such a casual manner. Many of them would not even spell the word God but rather refer to Him as G_d.

Gerry

 

[hlgomez]

Is this the debate on the Divinity of our Lord, where Mr. Keating quoted St. Thomas’ words “My Lord and my God” after touching His wounds at which the INC debater simply replied that St. Thomas was mistaken?

This reminds me of a story of one of my friends back in Cebu, Philippines who got engaged in a debate with a INC minister. When my friend appears to be winning the debate, the minister, out of frustration, challenged him in a fist fight, instead, to see who will win. But my friend told him that they are not there for a fist fight but to see the truth. He also went undercover one time to their church and noticed that after their church service, they (ministers/preachers) go to the back of their church to pratice karate. They say they wanted to learn “self-defense” when threatened while preaching in the villages. I don’t know if these is true to all the INC churches throughout the country. They also force people to pay contributions to their church whether or not they attend the service that’s why they are able to acquire large sum of money to build INC churches here and there in the Philippines. But while they attempt to build so many churches (some are large ones and all the designs are almost identical), it’s very obvious that most of their churches are empty, or have just some few members attending. They simply want to make it appear that they are “growing fast” in numbers with the building of their churches. I guess they want to surpass the hundreds of Catholic churches and chapels already built in the country.

Pio

 

[Imprimartin]

Well then, since so many of you are in touch with the action in the Philipines, perhaps someone can tell me how to get apologetics stuff in Tagalog. Tapes, tracts, books, or whatever.

I’m not filipino nor do I speak it. But I know some older ladies who keep entertaing the JWs even though she says she remains catholic. but I fear that if they keep coming around to give her filipino news, she will break on an “awwww . … how nice” level.

Any links or anything,
Martin

 

[losav]

Hi everyone especially my kabayans,

I’m a Filipino Catholic who is presently working here in Saudi Arabia. I agree with your views posted in this thread. As my personal observation also, we in the Philippines are pampering our priests and if possible, we don’t want to see them suffer. There are many good families back home; there are families who donate monthly ration of rice and other food to the parish. Some just volunteers as cleaners or cooks. Pratically, we let our priests lay in a “bed or roses.” We do not argue with our priest even if he is obviosly wrong, even we see him with his girlfriend or even we have known that our priest have just made someone pregnant… it’s a taboo for Filipino catholics.

I am 100% catholic who is very much interested in my church history and traditions but i just can’t sit in one corner and make no effort to help the priest.

Kabayans, let us help our priest if we know for a fact that they are leading us to nowhere. They are not perfect and they need us to guide them too. This is the right time to make use the power given by the church to laity. And if we love the catholic church, let us study our church so that we can defend our faith to those who tries to destroy it.

 

[silvano]

hello all,

i am deeply concerned about the future of rcc in the philippines.perhaps,not in my lifetime, but i foresee our country to be the new ireland of asia,where there is a religious war between the rcc against inc and or fundamentalist christians.our local and national elections are very influenced by the inc bloc vote.now,many cities and municipalities are being run by anti catholic fundamentalist christians.baguio and puerto princesa are prime examples.i know personally an ex catholic,who is now a pentecostal,is conducting a value formation seminar in the police dept,where he is the chief,as a camouflage to convince rc cops and their families to leave their faith.this is triplicated in various parts of our country.come to think of it,our population is approximately 80m,have you seen any new rcc being erected or expanded,nope! however,you will see hundreds of new non catholic churches built or buing build.take a look at j.i.l. and inc,with their membership totalling around 15m or more,who are these folks,arent they ex catholics??the major problem is that,many of them became rabid anti rc.how can we counter this monstrous problem,besides prayers.we need to vigilant with our faith.for instance,i wrote to the mayor of baguio city,to remind him,that it was predominantly the rc,that elected him and that he should not just serve the minority,but the majority of his constituents.i also eamiled the cbcp website about cardinal sin’s legacy i.e. more than 15% of rc,embraced another faith during his tenure.what a shame???

forever catholic,
silvano

 

[RobedWithLight]

silvano:

hello all,

i am deeply concerned about the future of rcc in the philippines.perhaps,not in my lifetime, but i foresee our country to be the new ireland of asia,where there is a religious war between the rcc against inc and or fundamentalist christians.our local and national elections are very influenced by the inc bloc vote.now,many cities and municipalities are being run by anti catholic fundamentalist christians.baguio and puerto princesa are prime examples.i know personally an ex catholic,who is now a pentecostal,is conducting a value formation seminar in the police dept,where he is the chief,as a camouflage to convince rc cops and their families to leave their faith.this is triplicated in various parts of our country.come to think of it,our population is approximately 80m,have you seen any new rcc being erected or expanded,nope! however,you will see hundreds of new non catholic churches built or buing build.take a look at j.i.l. and inc,with their membership totalling around 15m or more,who are these folks,arent they ex catholics??the major problem is that,many of them became rabid anti rc.how can we counter this monstrous problem,besides prayers.we need to vigilant with our faith.for instance,i wrote to the mayor of baguio city,to remind him,that it was predominantly the rc,that elected him and that he should not just serve the minority,but the majority of his constituents.i also eamiled the cbcp website about cardinal sin’s legacy i.e. more than 15% of rc,embraced another faith during his tenure.what a shame???

forever catholic,
silvano

This is the price of Filipino Catholic disunity within a democratic setup. Catholics, despite their numbers, unlike the INC, do not vote as one bloc, but rather we vote according to other non-religious considerations, usually for reasons of a more parochial or superficial nature like a candidate’s personal popularity, where we vote because he happens to be a movie star, or simply because one happens to be beholden in a certain way to a certain candidate [despite his obvious flaws of character and questionable record], a typical Filipino trait called “utang na loob”.

Filipino Catholics, to be perfectly blunt, though still the overwhelming majority, strike me as sitting ducks to proselytizing by INCs, ADDs, Mormons and JILs. Younger Catholics, who are often poorly instructed in the Catholic faith, are sometimes lured by their friends or schoolmates into “prayer meetings” and “bible study sessions” run by “fellowships” that claim to be “non-denominational” but are in reality fronts for fundamentalism. Occasionally, mass indoctrination in “coordinating” centers by Eli Soriano’s ADD would be held within our villages. At noon in our homes we would sometimes hear the knocks on our doors by a couple of guys wearing white shirts, ties and carrying backpacks, and we often see them walking in pairs in the streets. On television we are asaulted by the fire and brimstone sermonizing of televangelists like Apollo Quiboloy and Wilde Almeda with their own peculiar brand of Christianity.

Unfortunately, we encounter only silence from the Catholic hierarchy. I’m wondering if this is truly ecumenism in action.

Gerry

 

[porthos11]

Well, Filipinos have another annoying trait called “ningas cogon”… for the benefit of our non-Filipino readers, cogon is a local grass that catches fire very easily (even when green), blazes well, and then just as quickly burns itself out. This trait is a bad habit in which people get all fired up with zeal over something, and then lose interest.

I’ve witnessed this firsthand in both communities and in apologetics efforts. They’re all so gung-ho at first, then less than a year later, not even the leaders show up. Then there are the lame excuses about “not being spiritual enough, blah blah.” All I have to say to that is YEAH RIGHT!!!

It all boils down to personal commitment. And we’re wondering about the sorry state of Catholicism here? Everyone seems to be going for “feely goody” stuff, but the serious, worthwhile stuff, nooooo…leave that to the priests. Then when they leave to become Fundamentalists, Mormons, INCs, JWs or whatever they say 'I never found Christ in the Catholic Church!!" HAH! Well here’s what KIDDO! He was there all the time. You just refused to see him because you didn’t want to go deep! That’s why!!!

 

[losav]

The question is: WHERE ARE OUR PRIESTS? Well, it is a problem with Religious Clergies because they have their superiors always checking them out and I know for a certain that they have a regular “fraternal correction” in their respective communities.

Let’s face it, our priests in the diocese usually are nowhere to be found in ordinary gatherings or just a casual visit to the ordinary folks in the parish (not those rich and famous… again!). Correct me if I am wrong but as I’d experience it from the northernmost tip island to some parts in Mindoro, you seldom hear them talking of God and Christ in their free time. They talk of money, cars, beach, latest mobile phone, outing… I haven’t heard them worrying about the growth of INC, Mormons etc…, we hear them in their best sermons but they have not lived it? I bet, you will never see a priest eating the very ordinary food, unless he is under strict diet. This is a wrong signal for younger generation. If you want to be rich, be a priest.

Have we, Filipinos missed something somewhere?

 

[dhgray]

losav:

Have we, Filipinos missed something somewhere?

YES YOU HAVE. You can’t see the forest for the trees. You have a very beautiful and rich culture. The Couples for Christ brings that culture and community back. Go to www.couplesforchrist.us and find the group closest to you. Come back to the Church and bring your Filipino pride with you.

 

[losav]

Thanks dhgray…

We have a lot of church groups that has liven the our local churches. I’ve been a member of Singles for Christ in my parish, an active one and I have this “zeal” of being an apogetics by nature (I suppose) because I love to read things which can enhance my knowledge of the Catholic Church to refute the claims and lies of other Christian brethrens.

I’ve known a lot of the members of CFC, SFC, YFC, CFC (Children) etc… and trully, their lives were renewed because of the apostolate of the laity.

During the visit of our Pope in 1995, it was the CFC and SFC and other active catholic groups who organized the youth to such a massive gathering on that day which I knew as the largest number of people in a single gathering with PJPII.

But my concern is, we do not have an official speaker to counter act these allegations that the ADD and INC are saying over their regular TV programs. We have catholic radio station called “Radio Veritas” but there was nothing said about refuting any accusation from the fundamentalists… or at least a program that stirs the faith of the majority catholics and to challenge the fundamentalists. How I wish there would be a well versed apogetics in the Philippines who is seen primetime on TV.

 

[dhgray]

losav:

How I wish there would be a well versed apogetics in the Philippines who is seen primetime on TV.

Me too wish tht for you. I love your country. The best way to counter the attacks is by the way we act and treat each other. Look at the GK, (Gawad Kalinga) and at the GKag (Gawad Kaginhawahan). We can not stop the other from talking about us, we can control (to some part) what they are saying about us.

Yes is would be great to get apologetics on TV, but the reality is that it takes a lot of money.

We will continue to keep the Philippines in prayer.

Pagpalain ka nang Dios.

 

[losav]

dhgray:

Pagpalain ka nang Dios.

DhGray, thanks for the concern. Are you a Filipino? Sorry, this should not be asked in a forum like this, pardon me.

 

[RobedWithLight]

losav:

Thanks dhgray…

During the visit of our Pope in 1995, it was the CFC and SFC and other active catholic groups who organized the youth to such a massive gathering on that day which I knew as the largest number of people in a single gathering with PJPII.

I was also in that historic gathering at the Luneta Park, being part of an official delegation of a Catholic youth group in our College.

There are some excellent apologists among the clergy, like the brilliant Father Gerardo Tapiador. Unfortunately, such articulate theologians are not given enough oportunities in Philippine radio. Radio and television in the Philippines, unfortunately, is far more concerned with politics and showbiz scandals/gossip programs.

Gerry

 

[dhgray]

losav:

DhGray, thanks for the concern. Are you a Filipino? Sorry, this should not be asked in a forum like this, pardon me.

Losav, I am a “puti” American, born and raised. My wife is from Cagayan de Oro. The Couples for Christ has shown me TRUE Filipino culture of friendship and love.

I understand you need for apologetics as I converted to Catholicism a few years ago. I had to learn on my own. I asked the Lord to give me a thirst and he did. HE has allowed me to go toe-to-toe with Fundamentalists and Baptists. The Fundamentalists ended up joining the CFC and the Baptists are still discerning but are telling their Catholic friends about the CFC. I know that it’s not me doing this, it’s HIM doing this.

You said, " I’ve known a lot of the members of CFC, SFC, YFC, CFC (Children) etc… and trully, their lives were renewed because of the apostolate of the laity." Have you considered becoming part of the community? If you need to find a CFC representative in your area, please let me know.

If not for this community, I would be divorced and/or dead…but that’s another story.