Finally, Catholic Answers comes clean with the mormon threat ownership.

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ibkc said:
‘Deep theological stuff’ isn’t covered in RCIA. The basics of the Christian faith are. The whole of the person is addressed in learning about Christianity from the Catholic standpoint: the emotional, the spiritual and the intellectual. A convert does not come out confused or conflicted on any level because all parts of the soul have been nourished.

If you were arguing from a Protestant standpoint, I could take you a little more seriously here; but since you are a Mormon, I just cannot. Sorry. So many things in the Scripture you quote assume certain truths, which Mormons violate to some of the most egraegious extremes. The biggest one for me is that the Jews who were the original Apostles of Christ, were monotheists. Christianity is a monotheistic religion. When the Scriptures you quote were composed, the assumption is that anyone coming to Christ is aware and accepting of this. It is still that way, today. But Mormonism is polytheistic/henotheistic, and I know for a fact that many converts to Mormonism, carried away by the warmth and friendliness shown to potential converts in lieu of actual instruction on the “basics” of Mormon religion, have allowed themselves to be baptised without knowing that they were essentially joining a polytheistic Christo-pagan cult.
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Yeah - you really have to watch out for that “warmth and friendlines”😃 You better stick with the cold and disstant type;)
BTW - do not forget to find joy in whatever it is you choose to believe…

Annie
 
ibkc said:
If you were arguing from a Protestant standpoint, I could take you a little more seriously here; but since you are a Mormon, I just cannot. Sorry. So many things in the Scripture you quote assume certain truths, which Mormons violate to some of the most egraegious extremes. The biggest one for me is that the Jews who were the original Apostles of Christ, were monotheists. Christianity is a monotheistic religion. When the Scriptures you quote were composed, the assumption is that anyone coming to Christ is aware and accepting of this. It is still that way, today. But Mormonism is polytheistic/henotheistic, and I know for a fact that many converts to Mormonism, carried away by the warmth and friendliness shown to potential converts in lieu of actual instruction on the “basics” of Mormon religion, have allowed themselves to be baptised without knowing that they were essentially joining a polytheistic Christo-pagan cult.
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Yes, a sign of desperation I hear.

zerinus
 
zerinus,

I for one would never presume to tell you or any one that your religion is false. So I will ask you to clarify some things that all us believe that the LDS teach.

1)God the father has a physical body and lives on a distant plant with a wife and raising a family.
  1. That Jesus was the first born of is God couple and him and his younger brother Lucifer both came to earth to lead people to God.
  2. That we can become gods ourselves and create our own universes/worlds of people to be gods of.
  3. That Adam and eve did not sin when they ate from the tree of life and where cast from the garden.
Please show me were in any old or new testament or writings of the early 1st century Church that any of these is beliefs were held or taught.
 
hosemonkey said:
Her superior IQ is indicated by the fact that she is NOT mormon.:cool:
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OK, Boys - now let’s quit the IQ insults:thumbsup: Let’s just thank God that none of us are getting to heaven (or not) based on our IQ:o

Annie
 
oneGODoneCHURCH said:
zerinus,

I for one would never presume to tell you or any one that your religion is false. So I will ask you to clarify some things that all us believe that the LDS teach.

1)God the father has a physical body and lives on a distant plant with a wife and raising a family.
  1. That Jesus was the first born of is God couple and him and his younger brother Lucifer both came to earth to lead people to God.
  2. That we can become gods ourselves and create our own universes/worlds of people to be gods of.
  3. That Adam and eve did not sin when they ate from the tree of life and where cast from the garden.
Please show me were in any old or new testament or writings of the early 1st century Church that any of these is beliefs were held or taught.
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Hi Scott -
I know this was for Z, but I just wanted to puit in my 2 cents worth:)

Your question about showing you where any of these teachings are in old/new test./early church writings is based on the assumption that we LDS believe that all revelation of truths and teachings stopped with the NT/OT/Early Church writings. We beleive in a continuing revelation through our prophets, so this argument is really not applicable. Of course some of the LDS church teachings will most certainly NOT be found through any of the sources you mentioned. To us, though, this does not make them any less valid than the beliefs and tachings you have of your church.

I will leave the commens on your specific questions to Z, since this question was for him in the first place. 🙂

Annie
 
Hi,
I am a former Mormon, now Catholic. The teachings you cite are not exactly what the LDS Church teaches or has taught in the past (what they teach now is different from what they used to teach).
oneGODoneCHURCH said:
zerinus,

I for one would never presume to tell you or any one that your religion is false. So I will ask you to clarify some things that all us believe that the LDS teach.

1)God the father has a physical body and lives on a distant plant with a wife and raising a family.
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They used to teach that the Heavenly Father (HF) had multiple wives. Now they avoid the subject, but when pressed might admit to one wife.
  1. That Jesus was the first born of is God couple and him and his younger brother Lucifer both came to earth to lead people to God.
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Not exactly. They teach that Jesus and Lucifer each presented a plan to bring the spirit-children back to Kolob (HF’s home planet). The HF chose Jehovah’s plan over Lucifer’s, whereupon Lucifer rebelled against HF and became the devil.
  1. That we can become gods ourselves and create our own universes/worlds of people to be gods of.
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Correct!
  1. That Adam and eve did not sin when they ate from the tree of life and where cast from the garden.
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They teach that Adam and Eve did sin, but that it was a sin the HF planned for them to commit and wanted them to commit.

Hope this helps.

Paul
 
Annie_B said:
Well, no - nobody is taught EVERYTHING sbout ANY religion when they first seek it out and eventually join - Catholics included. I think you would be hard pressed to find a “Catholic Convert” who has had the entire catechism read and explained to them before they become members of the Catholic church.

As far as “alluding to” something; I was merely referring to the way that the Catholic church, throughout history, including the Native Americans, the Crusades etc. has aquired converts. I do believe that the apology given by Pope JP II included these events among others. Here is a direct link to the information:

wais.stanford.edu/Religion/religion_pope.html

To be fair, the LDS church does have some “black marks” too and appologies have also been issued. The important thing is that we all recognize when we have made mistakes and we act accordingly.

Annie
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Well first off, I clearly and intentionally said doctrine, not everything. So you didn’t address what I said. At any rate, ALL Catholic doctrine is taught to adult converts prior to baptism. EVERYTHING in the Catholic Catechism. This is a process that takes a least 9 months. Not the measly six weeks of mormon instruction.

That’s a start on Christian history. I suggest you continue. Maybe read up on the official position of the Catholic church at the time of the crusades, inquisition and evangelization of the Americas. Read what the popes of the time had to say, and have said. And, try not to confuse political history with religious history.
 
zerinus said:
That is not the Lord’s way nor the biblical way:
Acts 2:

37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?

38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

40 And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.

41 Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.

Acts 8:

35 Then Philip opened his mouth, and began at the same scripture, and preached unto him Jesus.

36 And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized?

37 And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.

38 And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him.That is the Lord’s way. No RCIA!

When we say that the early Christian church apostatized, and the doctrines, practices, and procedures were changed, these are the kinds of things that we have in mind. They are very good examples of that.

zerinus
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Oh you can’t be serious. Teaching people, in order so they understand Christianity, is anything BUT a form of apostasy.

The heresies of mormonism are no where to be found in the Bible, and are anything but Christian. Completely ludicrous to claim that you have some sort of high ground in this matter.
 
Annie_B said:
Hi Scott -
I know this was for Z, but I just wanted to puit in my 2 cents worth:)

Your question about showing you where any of these teachings are in old/new test./early church writings is based on the assumption that we LDS believe that all revelation of truths and teachings stopped with the NT/OT/Early Church writings. We beleive in a continuing revelation through our prophets, so this argument is really not applicable. Of course some of the LDS church teachings will most certainly NOT be found through any of the sources you mentioned. To us, though, this does not make them any less valid than the beliefs and tachings you have of your church.

I will leave the commens on your specific questions to Z, since this question was for him in the first place. 🙂

Annie
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Thank you Annie. There are many posts made here that do not deserve to be answered, and I do not answer them. My advice to you is to do the same. This is one of those.

zerinus
 
zerinus said:
Thank you Annie. There are many posts made here that do not deserve to be answered, and I do not answer them. My advice to you is to do the same. This is one of those.

zerinus
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Zer,
Why do you not answer all questions? Do you find them insulting or is it cause you have answered before?
 
dolphinlove said:
Zer,
Why do you not answer all questions? Do you find them insulting or is it cause you have answered before?
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There may be a variety of reasons. My “warm fuzzy” tells me whether to reply to them or not!

zerinus 😃
 
kalt said:
You seem determined to set-up the debate as if LDS and the CC are enemies. I think that LDS beliefs are a little off. 🙂 And I’m sure that you, as a LDS member, believe that Catholic beliefs are a little off. That makes sense, since many of the beliefs conflict.
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Roman Catholicism is for Christ Mormonism is not. Mormons can claim they follow Jesus all they like here because we know they don’t

Jesus said “If they are not against us they are for us.”

Roman Catholics stand up for Christ like I do as an Anglican. We stand against Mormonism and are for each other because we are for Christ.

Jesus said “Whoever is not for me is against me.”

Mormons are against Christ. Mormons are enemies of the gospel

Mormon beliefs are all lies from the pit of Hell.

It is natural for Gods people to speak agianst God’s enemies.

God’s enemies are perpetrators of known lies.
 
East_Anglican said:
Roman Catholicism is for Christ Mormonism is not. Mormons can claim they follow Jesus all they like here because we know they don’t

Jesus said “If they are not against us they are for us.”

Roman Catholics stand up for Christ like I do as an Anglican. We stand against Mormonism and are for each other because we are for Christ.

Jesus said “Whoever is not for me is against me.”
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Jesus sounds like George Bush. 😃

Actually, mormons do stand up for christ. They live good christian lives and I know that christ is very happy with the lds teaching on morality. Now I can not be sure about the Anglicans. I tend to see them as being very liberal on moral issues and of course the Episcopal Church is very split on gay bishops etc. But yes, I also think that Roman Catholics stand up for christ too.
 
zerinus said:
Thank you Annie. There are many posts made here that do not deserve to be answered, and I do not answer them. My advice to you is to do the same. This is one of those.

zerinus
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Good advice Z. The vast majority seem to be from people who are trying to convince us we are wrong, rather than attempting to truly understand. One of the MANY things I really love about the LDS church is it’s tolerance and respect of all other churches. I find it incredibly sad that the majority of the rest of the Christain community seem to feel that in order to build up their beliefs they must attempt to tear down the beliefs of others.

Article of Faith #11:

11 We claim the privilege of worshiping Almighty God according to the dictates of our own conscience, and allow all men the same privilege, let them worship how, where, or what they may.

Annie
 
lizaanne said:
Quote:
So - with all due respect - get over yourself.

By not following an error filled book and a guy who made stuff up as he went along.

~Liza
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Can you prove it? The problem with the book of mormon is that it hasn’t been proven false. And this is why the lds church still exists today. And I might add that the eleven witnesses to the book of mormon still stand the test of time.

And it is here that the problem exists. Now if it was only Joseph Smith ad he alone, no proven, it could be a fraud. But there are several witnesses to the gold plates.
 
Annie_B said:
Good advice Z. The vast majority seem to be from people who are trying to convince us we are wrong, rather than attempting to truly understand. One of the MANY things I really love about the LDS church is it’s tolerance and respect of all other churches. I find it incredibly sad that the majority of the rest of the Christain community seem to feel that in order to build up their beliefs they must attempt to tear down the beliefs of others.

Article of Faith #11:

11 We claim the aprivilege of worshiping Almighty God according to the dictates of our own cconscience, and allow all men the same privilege, let them worship how, where, or what they may.

Annie
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I alreaady understand everything I need to understand about the Mormon Church. I was a Mormon for over 30 years. Many of us were Mormons for a long time – maybe even longer than you. You are welcome to your beliefs and I’m not about to infringe upon them. That doesn’t mean I don’t have an obligation to show you where your beliefs are incorrect. Especially when they are so obviously incorrect.
 
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