Finding other Catholic virgins

[thewanderer]

“So many people dogging on the young man. Does his stance make you uncomfortable?”

I was thinking the same thing. Thank you carlostomas

You mean the idea of wanting to marry a virgin? Hardly. I am one and am marrying one later on this year. What I don’t like is the way he portrayed himself. He came across as being someone who is a little too self-centred to be ready for marriage. Again, as I have admitted before, there is a chance this is a miscommunication issue. Perhaps he worded his OP out of defiance thinking he would find objections to him wanting to marry a virgin. But the emphasis on getting what he wants because he wants it is very disturbing to me to find in someone seeking to enter married state of life. Selfishness and selfcenteredness will kill a marriage, no matter how chaste the couple were beforehand.

 

[thewanderer]

No. I meant to address the other poster. I just tacked onto your post because it was the last one that addressed the weird post.

k, thanks for explaining.

 

[BlueEyedLady]

that’s a fairly insulting and myopic point of view. I’d bet there are many, many married readers who weren’t virgins when married and don’t look at their spouses as someone who could be replaced.

apologies if you’re speaking from personal experience, but you are wrong for the general population.

No kidding. The best, strongest, most committed marriages other than my own that I’ve ever seen are between non virgins. My brother and his wife both had quite the history before meeting, but their marriage is the one I look up to the most. A close second is the marriage of my mother in law and her husband. Both have previously been married (they are devout catholics and both received annulments though).

 

[BlueEyedLady]

You mean the idea of wanting to marry a virgin? Hardly. I am one and am marrying one later on this year. What I don’t like is the way he portrayed himself. He came across as being someone who is a little too self-centred to be ready for marriage. Again, as I have admitted before, there is a chance this is a miscommunication issue. Perhaps he worded his OP out of defiance thinking he would find objections to him wanting to marry a virgin. But the emphasis on getting what he wants because he wants it is very disturbing to me to find in someone seeking to enter married state of life. Selfishness and selfcenteredness will kill a marriage, no matter how chaste the couple were beforehand.

This x1000!!!

The OP didn’t creep me out because he wants a virgin, though that is a little creepy on it’s own. He creeped me our because of his tone of entitlement and his extremely archaic and uninformed view of female sexuality.

 

[runningdude]

…That being said, let me say a bit about myself. I am 22 years old, soon to be 23. I graduated from college last year and I’m basically just starting to build my future life. I have had some opportunities to loose my virginity before, but I did not act on them. When I was in college, a lot of girls there seemed to be sleeping around, having casual sex, and have liberal views on abortion. I’m not really down with that idea. To me, if I’m going to be with a girl and invest a lot of time in a relationship, I want her to be on my level. I don’t want to be male specimen #4, #14, or #24 for that matter. It is harder for a man to pass up sex than it is for a woman because of biology. Men simply have higher sex drives. If I was able to do it, then it should be even easier for a female to do it. In my opinion, it’s would be an insult and a kick in the face to have to settle for a girl who lost her virginity. I want what I want and I won’t have it any other way.

You are approaching an age where you start to permanently think like an “adult”. I am only 25, but in the past two years, especially out of college, I started seeing the world differently. The irrational behavior of my teenage students, for instance, (I work in a school currently) baffles me now, whereas when I started, I could still relate to their angst.

Younger people tend to think in a very narrow manner. You have set a very narrow parameter for marriage compatibility; that of virginity, and your apparent motivation is that of jealousy. Other younger people, such as young woman 16+, often have the opposite tunnel vision, that having sex is a necessary right of passage, and do not allow themselves to see an alternative.

This being said, where could I go to find girls (18 and over obviously) who share my values and haven’t had sex yet. In my local catholic church, most of the people who go there for mass are pretty old. The only thing that comes to mind where I might possibly get what I want would be one of these larger, pro-life rallies, like the one that takes place in DC every year. Are there any other places that I’m possibly missing?

You speak of seeking someone who shares your values, but again focus on the sex part. This is the tunnel vision! As you mature, focus on your values. You value chastity. Focus on what chastity means. It is a gift that you offer you future spouse; you need someone who values that.
**
I am not even trying to convince you that you should consider women who lost their virginity - I’m warning you that virginity alone is not enough!**

 

[Havard]

I think your attitude is going to turn off a lot of nice Catholic women, virgin or not. It is not any more noble or praiseworthy for a man to abstain than for a woman, and your idea that it’s somehow easier for women is just…well, wrong.

If you “want what you want and won’t have it any other way”, that’s fine. That’s your business, and there is nothing wrong with a preference to date only virgins. Your approach, however, is not going to get you any dates. I’d advise seeking chaste Catholic women, and if you find out she isn’t a virgin and it’s a deal breaker, well then okay. And of course, it’s imperative to remain chaste yourself, which encompasses a whole lot more than just abstaining from sex itself.

Well said!! I would add that even if you only are willing to date virgins, the focus should be on how rock-solid a potential spouse is in their future chastity. And as Lorelei pointed out, chastity encompasses a lot more than virginity.

 

[psymajor]

To the people who actually bothered to answer my question, thank you. I appreciate that you were able to give a simple, straight answer.

To everyone else who turned this thread into a criticism of what I want and a chance to attack me, all I have to say is wow. When I was younger, I didn’t know a lot about the world, but I still saw what was around me. I saw kids who went to CCD sunday school with me, but then did nothing to live by anything of the Catholic teachings. A lot of people I saw thought sunday school and going to church was a complete joke. In college, I saw how much sex people were having, and under what circumstances. I saw how faith in jesus got put down and was viewed with contempt. I saw how people supported killing an unborn child as a form of birth control. Despite all of these things, I stood my ground. But you guys are right. The the non-practicing catholics who lost their virginity outside of marriage and think abortion is acceptable are so much more mature than I will ever be. With the stigma of doing such things being lost, it should be no wonder why they are happening more often.

Regarding the thread I started a while back about marriage, I’m not trying to hide anything. I am deeply skeptical of marriage today because of the pool of people that we have, the culture that a lot of people live by, and the unfair legal system governing those government contracts. Financially, I don’t see any reason to get married. As is evidenced by the old thread, the only true justification for marriage is spiritual, not financial (for a male that is). Many marriages fail because people were too casual about it, married the wrong person, or didn’t realize how long forever was. My initial comments may have been harsh, but that is how I feel. If I’m going to be with a SINGLE woman forever, then you better believe she has to meet my must-haves. If from the very beginning, I feel like she is lacking something (like her virginity) then it’s a lost cause to place bets on a sinking ship (the ship being the relationship). I am simply being bluntly honest with myself about what it will take to be with one woman forever and be 100% faithful to her. Being with one person forever is very hard to do and takes a tremendous amount of effort. If I’m going to accomplish that and be motivated to ride out the rough times, then she has to be able to give me the same gift on her wedding night, that I will give to her. There’s no point in getting married to a non-virgin, only to divorce 2 years later because it wasn’t what I wanted. If more people were bluntly honest like me, then there would be fewer divorces.

A lot of you mentioned how the past shouldn’t matter. That’s not how marriage works. People look at the past, present, and future when deciding if they should marry someone. A girl could be the most faithful church-goer who is active in church, volunteers all the time, and teaches Sunday school. But if that girl is an ex-drug user who has felony convictions and works at a fast food joint because she missed the boat in life, then all bets are off. I would not touch a girl like that. Call me harsh. Call me immature. Call me whatever. But most people don’t want to marry down, regardless of how in line with church teaching the person is now. The past is still very much alive and well. I want to at least marry someone who is like me.

 

[edwest2]

one of the many elephants in the room.

Only if you’re biased. Growing up: THE NUNS TOLD US BOTH - NO SEX UNTIL MARRIAGE!!

That was the rule drilled into our heads, And if a guy/girl slipped up, and were on their way to getting married, they got married. We had a system which DID NOT involve sexual intercourse while dating. That was followed by courtship, if both parties were willing. And you met her parents and she met yours. Then, if all looked good, and you spent time together like going to the store and doing mundane things as well - and really enjoyed each other’s company, then the man would go to the young lady’s father and announce their mutually agreed on intention to get married. Her dad had been his age once and would ask the practical questions. Then, if everyone felt ready - engagement - and you had plenty of time to back out, up to the hour before the ceremony.

Peace,
Ed

 

[Fairwinds]

… When I was younger, I didn’t know a lot about the world,

and you still don’t.

My initial comments may have been harsh, but that is how I feel. If I’m going to be with a SINGLE woman forever, then you better believe she has to meet my must-haves. …e.

you want blunt honesty? you’re getting it. you’re not ready for marriage with that attitude. and its not about sex, its about control.

what on earth makes you think any woman would want to meet your “must have” demands? your problem is the day before the marriage. hers will be the day after and every day she’s only your future ex-wife.

That’s not how marriage works

you’re not married, and you’re lecturing people, some of whom have been married a long time. and you’re not credible in the least.

 

[Allegra]

So many people dogging on the young man. Does his stance make you uncomfortable?

Where do you find other virgin Catholic girls?

Answer: At church, statisticaly a good % of 21 year olds have not had sex, I forget the numer like 20%. And this number is ceartinly higher at churches.

The main thing I would suggest is wait for the right girl. God will put her in your life

Part of it does. If he has said something along the line of, “I’ve always wanted to marry a virgin and I’m having a hard time getting into contact with women who feel the same way. Where can I look to find such a woman?” I guarentee this would be a much shorter thread. Instead he used derrogatory language toward women in general and Catholic women specifically and refered to non-virgins’ experience as a “slap in the face” to him. I think this is the part of his post that the other posters find offensive. There’s certainly nothing wrong with anticipating sharing one’s first experience with the one person with whom one is meant to spend their life. I know I always had and I have no regrets now.

 

[Fairwinds]

Only if you’re biased. Growing up: THE NUNS TOLD US BOTH - NO SEX UNTIL MARRIAGE!!

That was the rule drilled into our heads, And if a guy/girl slipped up, and were on their way to getting married, they got married. We had a system which DID NOT involve sexual intercourse while dating. That was followed by courtship, if both parties were willing. And you met her parents and she met yours. Then, if all looked good, and you spent time together like going to the store and doing mundane things as well - and really enjoyed each other’s company, then the man would go to the young lady’s father and announce their mutually agreed on intention to get married. Her dad had been his age once and would ask the practical questions. Then, if everyone felt ready - engagement - and you had plenty of time to back out, up to the hour before the ceremony.

Peace,
Ed

maybe that worked for teenagers.

 

[Bakhita16]

Hey Psymajor,

I’m sorry people were so uncharitable towards you, honestly. You didn’t deserve a lot of the comments. However, please don’t let certain people prevent you from seeing the good and loving advice many others gave you. You may not agree with everything but they mean well. especially Runningdude and Robert Chacon.

God bless!

 

[Ridgerunner]

Again, not putting down virginity. It’s a good thing. But the real thing one wants in a spouse is good character. Good character in a person who is also compatible with oneself and also a faithful and serious Catholic is not the easiest thing in the world to find.

Probably even rarer than good character is the ability to recognize it (or its deficit) in another. As I mentioned before, I always considered dating part of “spouse hunting”, because I knew even when I was a little kid that my vocation was marriage and a family.

While, again, not disparaging virginity as a possible indicator of character, it was not my most important criteria, or even a terribly significant one (short of outright harlotry, of course). I guess I have to confess that I carefully studied the girls I otherwise liked for all the other reasons. Was she observably kind to others? Did she exhibit empathy? Did she go out of her way to do charitable things when nothing required it of her? Did she refrain from treating others harshly even when she had the capability of doing it? Was she cognizant of her own abilities, confident of them, yet modest about them?

How did she deal with children? How did she deal with the socially inadept, the unattractive of her own gender? Did she only run with the high-end women or did her circle also include women of lesser lights, the handicapped, the infirm? I know this will sound silly, but I remember thinking an ideal woman would be willing and capable of moving through all levels of society and fortune as easily as a fish moves through water.

Was she equally capable of enjoying a high-end, high-cost evening or an evening sitting on the levee watching the riverboats go by? Was she capable of talking about life? Was she capable of talking about death without being insoucient or spooked, either one? Did she accept both as part of why we’re here?

Was she fun? Was she funny? Did she stand up for what is right, no matter what? Was she brave? Did she go to Mass all on her own? Did she go to confession? Was she comfortable talking about her faith? Did she pray on her own? Did she want to go to Mass with me? Did she pray with me?

Was she capable of correcting, even challenging me with charity but firmness when I was wrong? Was she capable of accepting it if I was the one in the right?

Beside all of that, virginity as such, didn’t loom very large to me.

(I’ll admit I’m kind of selfish and to all of that one can add that I liked a pretty woman but liked one more with that indefinable inner beauty that somehow shows on the outside. I can’t even describe that. Maybe women can. And, being a bit of an unwarranted intellectual snob, I liked one who was smart and literate.)

The lady I married was every bit of the above and, being far more fortunate than I deserved, I saw very quickly that she was. Was she a virgin when we married? I honestly don’t know. To this day, after many years of marriage, five children and twelve grandchildren, I don’t know. Nor have I ever asked. Nor do I care.

 

[psymajor]

and you still don’t.

you want blunt honesty? you’re getting it. you’re not ready for marriage with that attitude. and its not about sex, its about control.

what on earth makes you think any woman would want to meet your “must have” demands? your problem is the day before the marriage. hers will be the day after and every day she’s only your future ex-wife.

you’re not married, and you’re lecturing people, some of whom have been married a long time. and you’re not credible in the least.

A woman would want to remain a virgin to show that she is the real deal, and that she isn’t using religion for a phony more self-centered purpose, like getting a financially stable man or fitting in with other people. A woman would want to be a virgin to show her future husband that she takes marriage that seriously that she spent over a decade turning down offers of casual sex. I do not see marriage as all about myself. If it were all about me, then I wouldn’t even get married, since it is financially beneficial for a man to cohabitate instead of getting married. If it were all about me, I would just cohabitate with any regular woman, not marry her, and have a LONG legal agreement that keeps our assets separate. It’s not about control. It’s about purity and having the decency to wait for your future spouse and not having sex like it’s some genital massage you get when you are bored.

Part of it does. If he has said something along the line of, “I’ve always wanted to marry a virgin and I’m having a hard time getting into contact with women who feel the same way. Where can I look to find such a woman?” I guarentee this would be a much shorter thread. Instead he used derrogatory language toward women in general and Catholic women specifically and refered to non-virgins’ experience as a “slap in the face” to him. I think this is the part of his post that the other posters find offensive. There’s certainly nothing wrong with anticipating sharing one’s first experience with the one person with whom one is meant to spend their life. I know I always had and I have no regrets now.

Well what is the point of censoring my feelings? If I said it in the censored, watered down way you are suggesting, then 3/4 of responders would just be trying to convince me to accept a non-virgin as my wife. Those are my genuine feelings and I’m being very open about them to show just how important and inflexible this requirement really is.

 

[Allegra]

This x1000!!!

The OP didn’t creep me out because he wants a virgin, though that is a little creepy on it’s own. He creeped me our because of his tone of entitlement and his extremely archaic and uninformed view of female sexuality.

There’s nothing creepy about hoping to marry a virgin, if it’s for the right reasons. Sexual intimacy is a beautiful, precious gift. It’s normal to look forward to sharing it for the first time with ONE person, experiencing it ongoingly with the person you love and trust most in the world, and not having any regrets to get in your way. It is absolutely worth the wait and it is normal to be disappointed if the one you love hasn’t waited for you. Now, if the person is more concerned with not sharing his posessions or with getting stuck with “damaged goods”, not only is that creepy, but it is entirely devoid of love and misses the point of sex completely. That’s why I say that the OP is not ready marriage. There was arrogance and self-rightousness in his post, but not one speck of love, and that is the point of marriage. Obviously, the future Miss-Right-for-OP has not come along yet or I high doubt he would write a post like that.

 

[Allegra]

But most people don’t want to marry down, regardless of how in line with church teaching the person is now. The past is still very much alive and well. I want to at least marry someone who is like me.

Need we say anymore?

 

[Fairwinds]

Originally Posted by psymajor View Post
But most people don’t want to marry down, regardless of how in line with church teaching the person is now. The past is still very much alive and well. I want to at least marry someone who is like me.

Need we say anymore?

Q.E.D.

 

[Fairwinds]

A woman would want to remain a virgin to show that she is the real deal, and that she isn’t using religion for a phony more self-centered purpose, like getting a financially stable man or fitting in with other people. A woman would want to be a virgin to show her future husband that she takes marriage that seriously that she spent over a decade turning down offers of casual sex. I do not see marriage as all about myself.

yet you’ve just described what you think a woman wants, in terms of yourself.

… It’s not about control. It’s about purity and having the decency to wait for your future spouse and not having sex like it’s some genital massage you get when you are bored…

you have much to learn about women.

 

[Allegra]

(I’ll admit I’m kind of selfish and to all of that one can add that I liked a pretty woman but liked one more with that indefinable inner beauty that somehow shows on the outside. I can’t even describe that. Maybe women can. .

It’s usually found somewhere in the smile and the eyes. They can’t bottle that. That’s why some girls buy the most expensive and provocative clothes they can find, fake up their hair with products, cover their entire face with makeup, and spend hours on running and crunches, trying desperately to look “sexy” and they still can’t hold a candle to a natural-looking girl with a kind, warm smile.

 

[Allegra]

Q.E.D.

What’s that mean?