Five Non-Negotiable Positions Ignore Crimes against Humanity

[Tom_of_Assisi]

Uracan:

The “five non-negotiable positions” do not address several far more significant and morally important issues that affect the lives of billions of people already living on this earth. By focusing on these ‘non-negotiable positions’ it appears we Catholics are not concerned with the crimes our elected politicians are committing against humanity.

Far more significant to the poor, the starving, the sick and the downtrodden are the illegal and immoral wars which kill millions of innocent people, the avarice of the powerful elite which starves millions of others, the exploitation of poor countries, and the military expansionism which is used to subjugate other countries and is burdening this country with intolerable debt.

It appears that Catholic Answers, by recommending the ‘five non-negotiable positions’ as guidelines for the selection of candidates, backed a regime which started the Iraqi war, a genocidal war of aggression, has supported evil regimes throughout the world, conducted assassinations, and supported policies that keep two thirds of the people on this planet in abject poverty. Does Catholic Answers and the Catholic Church feel any responsibility to prevent these crimes?

I am Catholic, but I certainly do not think that the five non-negotiable positions describe what our first priorities and considerations should be when selecting a political candidate. It’s just too convenient a way for Catholic Answers to support a regime while ignoring its crimes against humanity.

You make some highly logical and well-stated points. Clearly the Catholic Answers’ voter’s guide for Americans should make as its highest priority: stopping all war on planet Earth and giving other people’s money and food to the “poor” of the world. Personal morality is out and food distribution and social services are in…slick…how about instead of the Catholic Church, we call it the Catholic sugardaddy…or the Catholic Pimp…?

 

[vern_humphrey]

katherine2:

And if I have determined in good conscience that a particular war is unjust (even if other faithful Catholics have a different conclusion), I am not at liberty to negotiate over condoning what I beleive to be an unjust war.

You are not at liberty to use your “negotiations” to support what the Church says are always and everywhere wrong.

I have never seen an application of Situational Ethics in the real world that wasn’t an exercise in rationalization – the person “negotiated” themselves into believing that what they were determined to do in the first place was the moral thing to do.

 

[Scott_Lafrance]

Tom of Assisi:

You make some highly logical and well-stated points. Clearly the Catholic Answers’ voter’s guide for Americans should make as its highest priority: stopping all war on planet Earth and giving other people’s money and food to the “poor” of the world. Personal morality is out and food distribution and social services are in…slick…how about instead of the Catholic Church, we call it the Catholic sugardaddy…or the Catholic Pimp…?

how about the Salvation Army?

 

[pnewton]

katherine2:

And if I have determined in good conscience that a particular war is unjust (even if other faithful Catholics have a different conclusion), I am not at liberty to negotiate over condoning what I beleive to be an unjust war.

Yes, you are at liberty. Protest, write letters or vote and make your opinion known. What you can not do is support abortion, euthanasia, etc. There was more than the presidential election. Even if on your ballot no was opposed to the war other than an abortion promoter, there are other ways to protest other than the ballot.

You can not support abortion. Ever. Period.

 

[vern_humphrey]

pnewton:

Yes, you are at liberty. Protest, write letters or vote and make your opinion known. What you can not do is support abortion, euthanasia, etc. There was more than the presidential election. Even if on your ballot no was opposed to the war other than an abortion promoter, there are other ways to protest other than the ballot.

You can not support abortion. Ever. Period.

You don’t understand. The intent is to support abortion. And every other liberal cause.

Opposition to the war is camouflage – by pretending the war is unjust, a fig leaf is created to allow people to do what they bloody well know is immoral and inadmissible.

 

[Richwhite]

The issue concerning an “unjust war in Iraq” is nothing more than hate Bush, liberal propaganda.

My understanding is that Saddam Hussein murdered, tortured and raped over 300,000 of his own people. (This per the hapless, corrupt UN)

Now (even though they are Iraqis) these 300,000 people have rights don’t they? You would think that the liberals would be happy that somebody stepped in to stop this abuse, but no they just want to keep bashing George Bush and the war in Iraq.

If the UN had done its job, our soldiers would only be a minor part of the war, but all the UN did was talk, talk, talk. No action to back up the talk. How many resolutions were there? 17, I believe. But never any action. Saddam was laughing at them while he stole our money in the corrupt UN oil for food program.

Liberals should ask what the world would be like if we didn’t step in to stop Hitler. We’d all be speaking German or Japanese by now.

Let’s face it. It’s all very simple. You cannot be Catholic and support candidates that promote abortion (the greatest evil of our time).

Unfortunately, for you Demorats, that means you have nobody to vote for and keep a clear conscience, because most Demorats are pro-abortion.

Let’s face it, liberalism is a mental disorder. Liberals will fight to save the life of a serial killer on death row, while advocating for the murder of an innocent baby in the womb.

***You can’t be Catholic and vote for pro-abortion candidates. ***

 

[pnewton]

vern humphrey:

You don’t understand. The intent is to support abortion. And every other liberal cause.

Opposition to the war is camouflage – by pretending the war is unjust, a fig leaf is created to allow people to do what they bloody well know is immoral and inadmissible.

Judging intent when evidence is lacking is beyond the scope of what Christians should do. The poster did not say she wanted to support abortion and she should not be treated like she does.

The voter’s guide was not a one election, on race booklet. It gives solid guidelines for election on national, state and local levels.

And, yes, good Catholics may oppose the war in Iraq on different levels (as did our Holy Father) or they may support it, all in good conscience.

 

[vern_humphrey]

Richwhite:

The issue concerning an “unjust war in Iraq” is nothing more than hate Bush, liberal propaganda.

Actually, it’s camouflage, a fig leaf they use to hide behind while they support pro-abortion politicians.

---

***You can’t be Catholic and vote for pro-abortion candidates. ***

Of course you can – you just pretend what you’re REALLY doing is opposing the “unjust war in Iraq.” http://forums.catholic-questions.org/images/icons/icon12.gif

 

[katherine2]

4,000 children slaughtered in the womb every day in this country,does not compare with the war in Iraq.Even if you are against the war in Iraq the war on the unborn makes the objections miniscule.God Bless

Lisa, your are entitled to your opinion and Jesus is entitled to His. To Christ the Good Shephard, no human life is miniscule. Yes, it is a hard saying of our Lord that every person need be respected. But a faithful Catholic is not a liberty to declare the fate of some lives miniscule. I would encourage you to pray over this.

 

[katherine2]

ByzCath:

That is true,

Thank you. its about time someone realized that.

 

[katherine2]

felra:

Don’t sell short sincere and clear thinking orthodox Catholic voters with a condescending characterization “human judgments”.

Not so clear thinking that they can figure out how to present their opinions without the help of focused groups funded by Republican political operatives.

 

[katherine2]

Scott Waddell:

Ok, one more time.

The reason the 5 non-negotiables are there is because there are actual political movements and politicians openly dedicated to promoting these evils and making them legitimate.

When we start seeing political movements dedicated to deliberately starving people, commiting genocide, etc. we may reasonably assume CA will add them to the list of non-negotiables. There is little point in adding starvation, poverty, genocide to a voter’s guide when there is actually no way to vote for or against them concretely.
Scott

We have some politicans claim they are not pro-abortion but just don’t think government action is the proper response and we have some politicans who claim they are against hunger and poverty but don’t think government action is the proper response.

I’m against all of these social evils and think government response is call for in all of the cases. I’m pleased the Church stands with me on this.

 

[katherine2]

Liberals should ask what the world would be like if we didn’t step in to stop Hitler. We’d all be speaking German or Japanese by now.

Liberals don’t need to ask. It was the liberals who spoke out against Hitler and demanded action while the right wing was wedded to isolationism. Don’t forget the man with the thin little umbrella was a Conservative

 

[vern_humphrey]

katherine2:

Lisa, your are entitled to your opinion and Jesus is entitled to His. To Christ the Good Shephard, no human life is miniscule. Yes, it is a hard saying of our Lord that every person need be respected. But a faithful Catholic is not a liberty to declare the fate of some lives miniscule. I would encourage you to pray over this.

Katherine, dear, please avoid blasphemy. The Church, not you or I, speaks for Christ the Good Shephard.

The Church has clearly said that just wars can be waged. It has also clearly said the aboriton is wrong, in every place and every time.

 

[sweetchuck]

Uracan:

The “five non-negotiable positions” do not address several far more significant and morally important issues that affect the lives of billions of people already living on this earth. By focusing on these ‘non-negotiable positions’ it appears we Catholics are not concerned with the crimes our elected politicians are committing against humanity.

Far more significant to the poor, the starving, the sick and the downtrodden are the illegal and immoral wars which kill millions of innocent people, the avarice of the powerful elite which starves millions of others, the exploitation of poor countries, and the military expansionism which is used to subjugate other countries and is burdening this country with intolerable debt.

It appears that Catholic Answers, by recommending the ‘five non-negotiable positions’ as guidelines for the selection of candidates, backed a regime which started the Iraqi war, a genocidal war of aggression, has supported evil regimes throughout the world, conducted assassinations, and supported policies that keep two thirds of the people on this planet in abject poverty. Does Catholic Answers and the Catholic Church feel any responsibility to prevent these crimes?

I am Catholic, but I certainly do not think that the five non-negotiable positions describe what our first priorities and considerations should be when selecting a political candidate. It’s just too convenient a way for Catholic Answers to support a regime while ignoring its crimes against humanity.

Uracan (that’s an interesting name by the way, isn’t that the Caribbean god of evil, by which we derive the word “hurricane”?), what politician comes out and says, “I’m in favor of torture and other crimes against humanity!”? Seriously. Who?

Just to highlight the misdirectedness of your argument with a hypothetical, it is equivalent to a Russian of Stalin’s era saying “the greatest evil is torture.” While, no doubt, torture is a great evil, between 20 million and 60 million of his countrymen and women are dying at the hands of the left-wing dictator. Injustice or mass homicide? Which is the greater evil, Uracan?

 

[vern_humphrey]

The Pope recently caught some flack for his new book, because he compared abortion to the Holocaust. Some Jewish commentators felt he was “cheapening” the Holocaust.

Twelve million people were killed in the Holocaust (about half were Jews.) Forty-two million people have been killed in the US, alone, since Roe vs Wade.

If anything, comparing abortion to the Holocaust “cheapens” the abortion holocaust!!

 

[Lisa4Catholics]

katherine2:

Lisa, your are entitled to your opinion and Jesus is entitled to His. To Christ the Good Shephard, no human life is miniscule. Yes, it is a hard saying of our Lord that every person need be respected. But a faithful Catholic is not a liberty to declare the fate of some lives miniscule. I would encourage you to pray over this.

Katherine You know what I meant ABORTION TRUMPS THE WAR:tsktsk: I do no think any life is miniscule:tsktsk: 4000 a day Katherine, 4,000 a day are dying if you can not see that this is worse then Iraq by the numbers,then I don’t know what to say.Do you see the difference in a war and a nuclear war Which one is worse?The anticipation is killing me

 

[vern_humphrey]

Lisa4Catholics:

Katherine You know what I meant ABORTION TRUMPS THE WAR:tsktsk: I do no think any life is miniscule:tsktsk: 4000 a day Katherine, 4,000 a day are dying if you can not see that this is worse then Iraq by the numbers,then I don’t know what to say.Do you see the difference in a war and a nuclear war Which one is worse?The anticipation is killing me

Most people who “oppose the war” could really care less about the war. They use it to provide a fig leaf to cover their continued support of pro-abortion policies and politicians.

 

[sweetchuck]

vern humphrey:

The Pope recently caught some flack for his new book, because he compared abortion to the Holocaust. Some Jewish commentators felt he was “cheapening” the Holocaust.

Twelve million people were killed in the Holocaust (about half were Jews.) Forty-two million people have been killed in the US, alone, since Roe vs Wade.

If anything, comparing abortion to the Holocaust “cheapens” the abortion holocaust!!

I doubt anything could ever “cheapen” either one. Both, along with liberal Stalin’s slaughtering, are among the worst evils the world has ever seen. Genocide vs. mass slaughter vs. infanticide…they all lie on the same “axis of evil.”

 

[sweetchuck]

vern humphrey:

The Pope recently caught some flack for his new book, because he compared abortion to the Holocaust. Some Jewish commentators felt he was “cheapening” the Holocaust.

Twelve million people were killed in the Holocaust (about half were Jews.) Forty-two million people have been killed in the US, alone, since Roe vs Wade.

If anything, comparing abortion to the Holocaust “cheapens” the abortion holocaust!!

I doubt anything could ever “cheapen” either one. Both, along with liberal Stalin’s slaughtering, are among the worst evils the world has ever seen. Genocide vs. mass slaughter vs. infanticide…they all lie on the same “axis of evil.”