Fla.'s 'Father Oprah' joins Episcopal Church

[JReducation]

There is a loophole that you are overlooking and that is that a few of the Orthodox Churches do not recognise the Catholic ordination or even the Catholic baptism. So the priest could marry and technically since he would not be ordained yet, according to some of these Churches, he could then apply for ordination within that Orthodox Church.

I know there were, but with the latest developments between the Orthodox and the Church of Rome, the lifting of excommunications on both sides and the lifting of anathemas, I’m not sure which Orthodox Churches, if any, still hold that position. That’s why I didn’t mention it. I didn’t want to run the risk of giving out misinformation.

Though the point is now a moot question, because Fr. Albert has been received into the Episcopal ecclesial community. Therefore, he has excommunicated himself, even though he will be a validly ordained priest unil death. It’s so sad. I’m hurting very much, because he is a young man whom I admired and had great hope that his ministry would do a great deal of good for youth, especially Hispanic youth.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

 

[Shin]

These quick points are full of misrepresentations and errors that have been and are appropriatedly addressed on different threads than this one.

You used them to justify Fr. Cutie’s heresy. Not cute. At best.

The first point was very Pontius Pilate like.

You don’t accept that God can order people to be killed? Well no wonder you have trouble with the Catholic Church. You probably have trouble with the fact that God has ordered you to die someday, just like everyone, when we do not know, but it is certainly going to happen.

And you’d better be ready for it because there’s no religious freedom in Heaven, old chap. Only His way or the low way. Way low.

But His way is a beautiful way indeed.

 

[japhy]

Well good ridden**[ce]**!
The Church has purified itself of 1 less bad apple.

That’s a terrible attitude to have. You don’t appear to be concerned for his soul at all. No prayer for repentance, no sympathy for a fellow sinner…

… you are a sinner, aren’t you?

God forbid the Church “purify herself” of you or me! I’d rather be purified by the Church than purified from the Church.

 

[DeusVeritas]

Roy5 you have already taken over this thread with your multiple posts of points that have nothing to do with the topic at hand. If you continue this thread will be locked. Have the courtesy to take your points somewhere else and not hijack my thread. Thank you.

 

[redrosetea]

I know there were, but with the latest developments between the Orthodox and the Church of Rome, the lifting of excommunications on both sides and the lifting of anathemas, I’m not sure which Orthodox Churches, if any, still hold that position. That’s why I didn’t mention it. I didn’t want to run the risk of giving out misinformation.

Though the point is now a moot question, because Fr. Albert has been received into the Episcopal ecclesial community. Therefore, he has excommunicated himself, even though he will be a validly ordained priest unil death. It’s so sad. I’m hurting very much, because he is a young man whom I admired and had great hope that his ministry would do a great deal of good for youth, especially Hispanic youth.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

My guess is that it might not be all sunlight and roses for either of them…I could never turn my back on Holy Mother Church, and I don’t know many catholics who can…Even the cafeteria Catholics seem not to be able to leave us

 

[JReducation]

How horrible! I hope he is excommunicated for the sake of his own soul!

The Church cannot excommunicate a priest or religious for sinning against chastity. There is an automatic excommunication only if the person attempts to marry. A sin against chastity is neither heresy nor apostasy. It is not more sinful than a sin against the vow of obedience, for those who are in vows of obedience. Imputiry and disobedience are sinful and the degree of the sin depends on the severity of the act, the intent of the person, and the degree of freedom.

In this case, as we have already stated, Father Albert has excommunicated himself. The question is now moot.

Only God can judge and only grace can bring him back.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

 

[JReducation]

A COUPLE OF RANDOM THOUGHTS

The celibacy requirement among the RCC clergy and religious is at best antiquated, at worse in conflict with God’s design. .

Did you read my post 97? You’re not responding to what is being said to you. You are simply teaching your beliefs.

As a religious in a solemn vow of celibacy, I feel that you do not understand my vocation and you do not care to try to understand it.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

 

[redrosetea]

The prodigal is a good example for us to adapt…He wanted his pleasure and he walked away from true riches to get it

He was also brought very low, at one point , and I sort of think it wasn’t by accident the Bishop gave us this example…

 

[soflochristmas]

The Church cannot excommunicate a priest or religious for sinning against chastity. There is an automatic excommunication only if the person attempts to marry. A sin against chastity is neither heresy nor apostasy. It is not more sinful than a sin against the vow of obedience, for those who are in vows of obedience. Imputiry and disobedience are sinful and the degree of the sin depends on the severity of the act, the intent of the person, and the degree of freedom.

In this case, as we have already stated, Father Albert has excommunicated himself. The question is now moot.

Only God can judge and only grace can bring him back.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

If I had a nickle for every time I’ve heard…“only God can judge”. Apples and oranges brother and you are doing no one any good by pretending that we have no roll in judging behavior…not souls, or by obfuscating the distinction.

 

[Shin]

Can. 1364 §1 An apostate from the faith, a heretic or a schismatic incurs a latae sententiae excommunication, without prejudice to the provision of Can. 194 §1, n. 2; a cleric, moreover, may be punished with the penalties mentioned in Can. 1336 §1, nn. 1, 2 and 3.

§2 If a longstanding contempt or the gravity of scandal calls for it, other penalties may be added, not excluding dismissal from the clerical state.

Can. 1365 One who is guilty of prohibited participation in religious rites is to be punished with a just penalty.

Can. 1366 Parents, and those taking the place of parents, who hand over their children to be baptized or brought up in a non-Catholic religion, are to be punished with a censure or other just penalty.

Can. 1367 One who throws away the consecrated species or, for a sacrilegious purpose, takes them away or keeps them, incurs a latae sententiae excommunication reserved to the Apostolic See; a cleric, moreover, may be punished with some other penalty, not excluding dismissal from the clerical state.

Can. 1394 §1 Without prejudice to the provisions of can. 194, §1, n. 3, a cleric who attempts marriage, even if only civilly, incurs a latae sententiae suspension. If, after warning, he has not reformed and continues to give scandal, he can be progressively punished by deprivations, or even by dismissal from the clerical state.

§2 Without prejudice to the provisions of can. 694, a religious in perpetual vows who is not a cleric but who attempts marriage, even if only civilly, incurs a latae sententiae interdict.

Can. 1395 §1 Apart from the case mentioned in can. 1394, a cleric living in concubinage, and a cleric who continues in some other external sin against the sixth commandment of the Decalogue which causes scandal, is to be punished with suspension. To this, other penalties can progressively be added if after a warning he persists in the offence, until eventually he can be dismissed from the clerical state.

§2 A cleric who has offended in other ways against the sixth commandment of the Decalogue, if the crime was committed by force, or by threats, or in public, or with a minor under the age of sixteen years, is to be punished with just penalties, not excluding dismissal from the clerical state if the case so warrants.

 

[redrosetea]

If I had a nickle for every time I’ve heard…“only God can judge”. Apples and oranges brother and you are doing no one any good by pretending that we have no roll in judging behavior…not souls, or by obfuscating the distinction.

We can judge behavior , I think…Everything we do must be filtered through scripture to let us understand right from wrong, and so we can teach our children to walk on the narrow path

We can’t condemn people …I was told this by a deacon…

 

[JReducation]

If I had a nickle for every time I’ve heard…“only God can judge”. Apples and oranges brother and you are doing no one any good by pretending that we have no roll in judging behavior…not souls, or by obfuscating the distinction.

I have neer said that we have no role in judging behaviors. If we were not allowed to judge behaviors. we would be unable to make moral judgments for us. What we do not judge ia people. Read the bishop’s letter. He does not judge Fr. Albert. He judges the actions.

Also, if you read the canons that were posted above, the canons speak of suspension and separation from the clerical state, not excommunication for sins against the sixth commandment that are on-going.

The Chuch does not excommunicate for this. In this case the priest in question has excommunicated himself by joining another faith. But the excommunication results from his apostasy, not the violation of his promise of celibacy. This is not one of the penalties listed in canon law or in theology for sins against celibacy. This is what I was trying to explain.

If we read the bishop’s letter carefully, he speaks about the fact that Fr. Albert’s state as a priest is irregular. His state as a Catholic is excommunicated. The bishop also says in his letter that Fr. Albet may be dismissed from the clerical state. He does not mention excommunication because of the sin against celibacy.

All I’m trying to clarify, for the sake of those who are asking why Fr. Albert is not excommunicated, that the Church does not excommunicate for this offense. She suspends. The person can incur interdiction if they attempt marriage.

I would also ask you never again to tell me that I’m not doing anyone any good. Such a comment is offensive, from someone who does not know me or what I do or believe.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

 

[redrosetea]

Br Jr is one of the finest people on this forum…I am not going to put words in his mouth but I think he was implying the outcome of all of this can only be judged by God, in the light of eternity…None of the rest of us know how God will use this event

God writes straight with crooked lines, and His ways are mysterious…

 

[pmoo]

If Father Cute, couldn’t be faithful to his vows of celibacy, which is a gift from God and be a responsible Catholic Priest, believe me, he’ll never be a responsible pastor or whatever is the title in the Episcopal or any other denomination, if the sensation of news was true.

Well said.

 

[katrntogo]

Sometimes I think we put our priests and clergy on pedestals and believe that they have their spiritual, mental, and emotional lives in complete order. We forget that they are human and are tempted by the same vices that any lay person faces.

I know a priest who struggled with alcoholism. This particular priest inspired me to re-examine my Catholic faith and become more than just a person who is Catholic for one-hour a week on Sunday morning. He gave inspiring homilies and led some outstanding classes to help adults better understand and learn about their faith. When the announcement was made that he was stepping aside as pastor of my church in order to seek treatment, it came as a complete shock to me.

I’m not saying that what Father Cutie has done is right, I’m just saying that wearing a white collar doesn’t give a person super powers that make them invincible against the devil.

Very well said…

 

[rciadan]

I know Father (Mr.) Cutie personally. When he found out my son had died and I had buried him in my back yard, he knew I had no money. He paid for a coffin out of his own pocket. He personlly arranged for my son to be buried on holy ground in a Catholic cemetary. My daughters know and love him dearly. I love him…
I am in tears. My heart feels as if it will simply implode with the agony of watching the havoc, the sheer magnitude of scandal that has been caused, of which this thread is a mere microcosm. I do not yet know how to tell my children of this. My youngest, I fear, will cry for days…She will not understand…I don’t understand. I am angry. I am hurt. I want to go to see him and tell him what pain has been caused. I feel the pain of great loss, as if a loved one in my family has deserted us…

 

[rciadan]

I know Father (Mr.) Cutie personally. When he found out my son had died and I had buried him in my back yard, he knew I had no money. He paid for a coffin out of his own pocket. He personlly arranged for my son to be buried on holy ground in a Catholic cemetary. My daughters know and love him dearly. I love him…
I am in tears. My heart feels as if it will simply implode with the agony of watching the havoc, the sheer magnitude of scandal that has been caused, of which this thread is a mere microcosm. I do not yet know how to tell my children of this. My youngest, I fear, will cry for days…She will not understand…I don’t understand. I am angry. I am hurt. I want to go to see him and tell him what pain has been caused. I feel the pain of great loss, as if a loved one in my family has deserted us…

 

[JKirkLVNV]

Sometimes I think we put our priests and clergy on pedestals and believe that they have their spiritual, mental, and emotional lives in complete order. We forget that they are human and are tempted by the same vices that any lay person faces.

I know a priest who struggled with alcoholism. This particular priest inspired me to re-examine my Catholic faith and become more than just a person who is Catholic for one-hour a week on Sunday morning. He gave inspiring homilies and led some outstanding classes to help adults better understand and learn about their faith. When the announcement was made that he was stepping aside as pastor of my church in order to seek treatment, it came as a complete shock to me.

I’m not saying that what Father Cutie has done is right, I’m just saying that wearing a white collar doesn’t give a person super powers that make them invincible against the devil.

No, and we’ve had ample evidence of that over the last decade in the Catholic Church (as has been pointed out). This latest turn of events, however, is just way too glib. He get’s caught with his hand in the cookie jar (no pun intended), then’s switches to a “church” where they’ve misplaced the lid to the cookie jar entirely. I want to know this: did he ever believe what the Catholic Church teaches? That’s what I meant by “it’s either true or it isn’t true.” I’m a rotten sinner, an habitual sinner, no better than he is and probably WORSE, in some ways. Despite my best efforts, I find myself rattling off the same list of trangressions every week to my confessor. So it isn’t about me or any of US (Catholics) being holier than thou. It’s about truth. What that the Episcopal Church teaches has this man suddenly come to believe? He got caught having an illicit affair and shazam! He no longer believes in the papacy? Can’t buy the bit about Mary’s Immaculate Conception or Her Assumption? Transubstantiation got a bit boring? What?

He’s joined an ecclesistical body where they have recently ordained an openly partnered homosexual as a “bishop,” where the presiding “bishop” is a woman who has openly stated that Christ is just one “vehicle” to the Divine, and where a lesbian “priest” who has openly stated that abortion is a “blessing” has been appointed to head a seminary. Why? He fell off his donkey on the road to Damscus because Our Blessed Lord appeared to him and said, “I was just yanking your chain when I said that bit about ‘upon this rock?’”

It’s just plain bizzare.

 

[bobzills]

   God bless the whole world - no exceptions. My emphasis is on the Sermon on the Mount in which Jesus ignored theology almost entirely. If we could only abide by that, what a difference this would make in our personal lives and around the globe.

Thank you for your comments. I did enjoy reading them and I am glad that you are here to share them with us. Although, I have to be straight on this: I do think that Catholicism has more to offer than does Protestantism.

 

[bobzills]

I know there were, but with the latest developments between the Orthodox and the Church of Rome, the lifting of excommunications on both sides and the lifting of anathemas, I’m not sure which Orthodox Churches, if any, still hold that position. That’s why I didn’t mention it. I didn’t want to run the risk of giving out misinformation.

Though the point is now a moot question, because Fr. Albert has been received into the Episcopal ecclesial community. Therefore, he has excommunicated himself, even though he will be a validly ordained priest unil death. It’s so sad. I’m hurting very much, because he is a young man whom I admired and had great hope that his ministry would do a great deal of good for youth, especially Hispanic youth.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

According to what I read on an Orthodox forum, there still are some Orthodox who do not recognise the Catholic baptism and believe the Pope to be a layperson.