Flirting with schism: The right-wing effort to delegitimize Pope Francis

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I wonder, just who is it that’s flirting with schism here? Is it as the article suggests, a right-wing effort to delegitimize Pope Francis? Or is it a left wing effort led by many liberals in the Church hierarchy, to delegitimize two millennia of traditional Church teachings?

Does anyone here remember the “shadow council?” It was a secret meeting that took place at the Pontifical Gregorian University just prior to the Synod of Bishops on the Family held in October 2015. It included cardinals, bishops, and theologians at the invitation of the presidents of the bishops’ conferences of Germany, Switzerland and France, in an apparent attempt to sway the synod to accept same-sex unions, among other things. Now again, I ask you. Just who is it that is flirting with schism?

https://www.catholicnewsagency.com/...rch-acceptance-of-contraception-gay-sex-98836

https://www.catholicnewsagency.com/...er-supports-plan-for-same-sex-blessings-48052

www.ncregister.com

Cardinal Marx Endorses Blessing Ceremonies for Same-Sex Couples

The president of the German Bishops’ Conference has declared that, in his view, Catholic priests can conduct such events for homosexuals.
www.ncregister.com www.ncregister.com
 
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That must have been a really supersecret “secret meeting” if the newspapers reported everything that went on.
 
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At that, they are respected news sources as far as I know. “Shadow Council” can’t mean anything else, but some sort of rather clandestine-type of meeting.
 
Some are questioning the validity of his papacy completely. I’ve seen comments to that effect from readers on Fr Z’s blog. I have some serious reservations about some of the things the Holy Father has appeared to have done… but to openly question whether he is the true pope goes beyond the pale.
 
The SSPX is odd. Unlike the full on (even more radical) sedevacantists, they give lip service to Francis (and his predecessors) being the true pope, but they justify open disobedience to him.
 
niceatheist said:
Hasn’t seemed to hurt SSPX.
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The SSPX is less and less relevant than it was a few decades ago, when most clergy had far more experiences and connections with the Church structure itself.
I’m sure they are concerned, but so are Anglicans and Lutherans.
 
Some of the groups opposed to Pope Francis are truly sedevacantists. Probably The Remnant, for one. I’ve been reading Karl Keating’s latest book, “The Francis Feud,” which is of some help in putting the various parties in perspective. Personally, I think that papal resignation would be a bad move, and lead to even worse politicking at the subsequent conclave. Schism would be tragic. The only option is to muddle through with reforms and transparency.
 
Okay, I’m sure you are right. I was trying to recall some of the factions mentioned in the Keating book, without much success.
 
When the author said, ut the situation is complicated by the fact that there is still a pope emeritus in the Vatican. Benedict XVI has become a symbol of resistance for traditionalist Catholics who oppose Francis’s reformist papacy and see Benedict’s theology as more aligned with their own.

I think that it is funny that the same people who are championing “Pope Benedict” are the same ones who were some of his sharpest critics when he was Pope.
 
I have had my concerns about this papacy and have started leaning traditionalist in some respects but I think the sedevacantist route just becomes chaos and you end up with situations like Pope Michael, elected from a modified thrift store in Kansas. (That really happened.)

It’s disappointing that Benedict had to resign, but he had his reasons, and only God knows what those really were. We’ll just have to take his word for it. It is what it is and I’m not realistically going to expect Francis to resign and have us sitting here with 3 living popes. Unfortunately some of our deep rooted problems will take some time to get sorted, God willing. In the meantime, it’s not like people can’t criticize Pope Francis and it’s not fair or particularly respectful to put all concerned faithful into a little “right wing” box, but he’s still the pope.
 
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Back in the early 2000’s through about 2009, I was a member of the women’s ordination movement.
Whenever one of us said a word about the Holy Father (JPII or BXVI) or whenever someone who even leaned slightly more liberal, the Traditional/Conservative Catholics would come out of the woodwork hurling all sorts of insults, calling anyone who disagreed with them or the Pope a heretic, heterodox, claimed that they weren’t Catholic, etc.

Now, that they don’t like the Pope, we are all reminded that it is OK to disagree with him, especially if he is not speaking ex cathedra.

Does anyone else see the irony in this? :roll_eyes:🤨🤨
 
I think there is a difference between disagreeing with something a pope says/does, and disagreeing with Church doctrine that is being upheld by a pope.

I find it interesting that the only people who say that traditional Catholics want schism are not traditional Catholics.
 
You’re really surprised that those who want a pope to resign (A POPE TO RESIGN) aren’t acknowledging that their efforts could lead to schism?
 
I am sorry for the Popes. John Paul,Benedict and Francis, that so faithfully submitted to one another in turn. And supported each other so lovingly and respectfully …
It is so good to have a Pope of our times who is a Saint right now,an Emeritus praying for us,and a Pope leading and struggling for us the Church.
What a team ! Olympians!Thank you Lord for them!
 
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CilladeRoma said:
Now, that they don’t like the Pope, we are all reminded that it is OK to disagree with him, especially if he is not speaking ex cathedra .
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This for example,isn’t the usual way to go,at least in my experience.
It is kind of a strange resource to listen and strain into what is infallible,ex cathedra,magisterial and that sort of analysis I read here. I have always attributed it to perhaps a more Protestant background ,and what I understand may be more apologetic perhaps. But it is foreign, we kind of flow in the learning process differently.
I personally learnt that Trads were simple people from Brother Jay. And so, it helped understand this group of brothers and sisters I was totally unfamiliar with. And we got along here in conversation.
Not any extreme.
Brother Jay was awesome to help us understand each other. A Hail Mary for him!
Just sharing from a different perspective and sincerely.
 
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I feel sorry for them also but Pope Francis has not been canonized.
 
Having been on both sides of the equation,
I find the stuff coming from more traditional camps much more disturbing.

When I was in the WOM, most of us didn’t care what the Church taught or why, we just knew that it was because of misogyny and power.

Fortunately, I found a wonderful priest who helped me to see my errors, without beating me over the head and calling me a heretic.

My experience tells me that those who on this forum who would be labeled heterodox, progressive or liberal, just don’t understand what the Church teaches and why. Sure there are some who know, and formally object, but my guess is that number is less than 10%
 
I do not get you…neither has Benedict. I am grateful for the three of them,kind of together at the same time in these difficult times.
Like " extra" help.That is what I am saying
 
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