Flirting with schism: The right-wing effort to delegitimize Pope Francis

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There were no canonical sanctions. It is pretty much not even in doubt anymore. Not even the supporters of Vigano are still trying to say that there was any official censure. that would have been public, anyway.
 
Canvas said:
that would have been public, anyway.
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Right and that is why I said, Pope Francis is the only one who did anything about McCarrick publicly but we are not positive about what Pope Benedict did privately.

So, I am not defending Pope Benedict or Pope JPII or Pope Francis, all my point was is that the article pitted Popes against each other.

I have a feeling we are going to find that this crisis goes back farther and deeper than we think.

God bless.
 
MagdalenaRita said:
So, I am not defending Pope Benedict or Pope JPII or Pope Francis, all my point was is that the article pitted Popes against each other.
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I don’t like people trying to politicize this. Nor do I want to see anyone say “it is all Pope X’s fault” because the abuse scandals were a long time in the making and a whole lot of people in authority were doing the wrong thing for a long time.
 
The calls that I have read about for Pope Francis’ resignation are conditional upon the truth of the allegations; I have not read of a unilateral call for his resignation.

There is a difference between believing that the person in the Chair of St. Peter is wrong and saying that the office of the Pope should be abolished. I don’t think there are many people on CAF who have the power or authority to affect such an action; are we not allowed to discuss the possibility?
 
Check out Church Militant. Voris has issued an unconditional call for the pope’s resignation.
 
A lot of the more “conservative / traditionalist” blogs are on overdrive to paint the Holy Father and his inner circle in a bad light. Fr. Z’s blog today is claiming that Archbishop Vigano is in danger of literal, physical assassination for criticizing the Pope… On the other hand, “progressives” seem to be on overdrive to paint the Holy Father as a living saint (which he may or may not be - not for me to judge).
There’s some pretty extreme claims floating around in Catholic circles right now.
I suspect the truth is complex and somewhere between the two extremes that the “progressives” and “conservatives” are presenting.
 
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gracepoole said:
Check out Church Militant. Voris has issued an unconditional call for the pope’s resignation.
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Church Militant is not under the auspices nor recognized by the Church. that doesn’t mean they’re wrong on this, but it needs to be pointed out. It isn’t a “conservative Catholic” website.
 
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You believe Church Militant isn’t a conservative Catholic source? Really?
 
gracepoole said:
You believe Church Militant isn’t a conservative Catholic source? Really?
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It’s not a “Catholic source”. It isn’t recognized by the Church, not allowed to use the word “Catholic”. It is not in Union with their local bishop

That doesn’t mean they are wrong, they could be right, just wanted to make that distinction. The National Catholic Reporter also isn’t a Catholic source, they refused to take the word off their title.
 
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gracepoole:
You believe Church Militant isn’t a conservative Catholic source? Really?
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It’s not a “Catholic source”. It isn’t recognized by the Church, not allowed to use the word “Catholic”. It is not in Union with their local bishop

That doesn’t mean they are wrong, they could be right, just wanted to make that distinction. The National Catholic Reporter also isn’t a Catholic source, they refused to take the word off their title.
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But this point is completely irrelevant. One Peter Five, Church Militant, The Remnant… They don’t need to be sanctioned by the Church in order to be seen by millions as Catholic. The RCC isn’t the Church of LDS, which denies the option outright of the word “Mormon” by outlets that don’t espouse the Church’s teachings. It’s nice to have an imprimatur or something similar. But we’re in the age of the internet and most folks don’t look for anything of the sort. So when CM says unequivocally that the pope must resign, millions of Catholics listen. And agree.
 
For some people, the distinction is still important. It is worth pointing it out
 
Their local bishop is part of the homosexual subculture; of course CM isn’t in union with him.
 
How many gears did Jesus and the Apostles have? Truth is truth, and the current climate of ‘gentle ecumenism’ has done a lot of damage to the Body of Christ, to the point where people are now leaving the Church faster than joining it, for the first time in two millennia. Even the Deformation didn’t see this kind of mass fleeing from the Church. And when parishioners start to feel that it’s a 50/50 chance that their parish priest is an active homosexual, that’s a serious problem that needs to be dealt with and spoken of as openly and frankly as possible. The hierarchy is refusing to do so; it’s up to the laity to speak up.
 
Borealis2 said:
Their local bishop is part of the homosexual subculture; of course CM isn’t in union with him.
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They ought to be.

I have had a few bishops who I disagreed with, a lot. I couldn’t support some of the regular diocesan programs, but I volunteer at ministries unconnected to Catholic Charities or the wretched school system. But at least those ministries got permission from the bishop.

I would never partipate in any ministry that defied the bishop. Once you go outside the bishop, you are in the same category as Call to Action, or Catholics for Choice.

We used to have a chapter of Catholics United for the Faith. This national group is now being revived. They walked the fine line, avoiding Catholic secularism, but lovingly accepting the role of the bishop, working patiently for actual improvement. Look into this, the St Joseph Foundation, and similar group’s
 
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Borealis2 said:
Their local bishop is part of the homosexual subculture; of course CM isn’t in union with him.
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I would guess by now most, soon all, the US bishops are being labelled by someone or other, as part of the homosexual subculture. By the end of 2019 every priest and seminarian, also.

Somewhere there’s a website that “proves” all popes of the 20th century were part of it, too. Yup, all claims backed up by “documentation” just like CM. By 2020 all the laity will be named, too.

Where does this end? We are back in Salem.
 
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I guess my only observation here is that there’s a lot of blame to go around, and Francis would strike me as likely being a LOT LESS to blame for this scandal than even some who may be his accusers.
 
True.
However it does not follow that the bishop who has little to be blamed for is the best bishop to sit in the chair of Peter at this time.
There are other bishops, without blame, who might do a far better job unifying the Church, a step badly needed.
 
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