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dann
Guest
What people don’t realize is this country was based on a dedication to god . the Jewish god.
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Oneofthewomen
Guest
If I gave up everything that I didn’t agree with, I would never leave my home, have no friends, never eat anything yummy or watch anything on TV.
Actually, the same rights that have me stand for the flag and anthem are the very same rights that would grant me the freedom not to. I am not sure why people don’t get that.
If you want to give up football because of it, fine, that is your choice.
Not sure what/if it will solve anything though.
Actually, the same rights that have me stand for the flag and anthem are the very same rights that would grant me the freedom not to. I am not sure why people don’t get that.
If you want to give up football because of it, fine, that is your choice.
Not sure what/if it will solve anything though.
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jcrichton
Guest
Hi, Jette!
I’m quite pedestrian… I still don’t have a picture with which to make a comparison; could you be more specific, what is it that they did that could be viewed as the same or similar to disrespecting the nation?
Maran atha!
Angel
I’m quite pedestrian… I still don’t have a picture with which to make a comparison; could you be more specific, what is it that they did that could be viewed as the same or similar to disrespecting the nation?
Maran atha!
Angel
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jcrichton
Guest
Hi!
I think that you are missing the intent; the knee thing is not about God or the Church or reverence. It is actually about irreverence; for Catholics it is the equivalent of someone popping a soda and gulping it down while the Celebrant is Consecrating the bread and wine–now, tell me you would simply get your own drink and toast to that person’s health or yell out ‘G’day, Padre!’
Maran atha!
Angel
I think that you are missing the intent; the knee thing is not about God or the Church or reverence. It is actually about irreverence; for Catholics it is the equivalent of someone popping a soda and gulping it down while the Celebrant is Consecrating the bread and wine–now, tell me you would simply get your own drink and toast to that person’s health or yell out ‘G’day, Padre!’
Maran atha!
Angel
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jcrichton
Guest
Hi, Dan!
I think that this is still being fought–Yahweh is being rejected by many as they claim that most of the founders were deists or atheists and that somehow that “God” thing could well have been 'under mother nature/father time/cosmonaut/indian chief/big kahuna/fish-fillet…
Anti-patriotism seems to be the new arse in the middle of the empty head.
Maran atha!
Angel
I think that this is still being fought–Yahweh is being rejected by many as they claim that most of the founders were deists or atheists and that somehow that “God” thing could well have been 'under mother nature/father time/cosmonaut/indian chief/big kahuna/fish-fillet…
Anti-patriotism seems to be the new arse in the middle of the empty head.
Maran atha!
Angel
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jcrichton
Guest
Hi!
Ever met a marine (or any service man/woman) who proudly hailed, 'I’m so proud to have given up my life, body-part, mental health, physical health, financial and social stability so that “Americans” would have the right to poop on the nation?
What you are suggesting is that the purpose of having federal guarantee insurance on banks and other financial institutions is so that they could be robbed.
Maran atha!
Angel
Ever met a marine (or any service man/woman) who proudly hailed, 'I’m so proud to have given up my life, body-part, mental health, physical health, financial and social stability so that “Americans” would have the right to poop on the nation?
What you are suggesting is that the purpose of having federal guarantee insurance on banks and other financial institutions is so that they could be robbed.
Maran atha!
Angel
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JetteZ
Guest
From the Library of Congress:
The social norms that were broken, for that time, were quite extraordinary and mob violence towards the women escalated as they increased their presence and “disrespect” towards the presidency. Check it out: that’s a fire burning in front of the White House:
(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)
Further, after deciding to picket the White House and while the US was engaged in WWI the women started using signs that compared the president with the Russian czar and the German kaiser.Although many women moved freely in the public
sphere–including those who worked outside the home in paid and
volunteer positions–the prevailing notion among middle-class
circles in the early 1900s was that only women of supposedly
poor character (for example, prostitutes) walked the streets.
Watching women of all classes parading down public thoroughfares demanding voting rights was disturbing to many men and even some women, including initially, moderate suffragists. Carrie Chapman Catt, for example, declined to participate in a 1909 parade saying: “We do not have to win sympathy by parading ourselves like the street cleaning department. The controversy within the suffrage ranks over the propriety of parades reflected why such events were newsworthy–they challenged existing conventions of how women should behave in public.
The social norms that were broken, for that time, were quite extraordinary and mob violence towards the women escalated as they increased their presence and “disrespect” towards the presidency. Check it out: that’s a fire burning in front of the White House:
(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)
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jcrichton
Guest
Hi, Jette!
Please understand that I’m not comparing you to Obama… this argument is similar to Obama’s defense of Muslin and other world oppression of women by comparing those nations/entities to the plight of the US females who were not allowed to vote or work outside their homes.
Can you imagine being killed by the husband or father right in the middle of the town, in broad daylight, while everyone watched, and none could come to the woman’s aid being compared to not having the right to vote or not being able to work in an office or factory?
Challenge the status quo but don’t trample on freedom for the guise of freedom!
Maran atha!
Angel
Please understand that I’m not comparing you to Obama… this argument is similar to Obama’s defense of Muslin and other world oppression of women by comparing those nations/entities to the plight of the US females who were not allowed to vote or work outside their homes.
Can you imagine being killed by the husband or father right in the middle of the town, in broad daylight, while everyone watched, and none could come to the woman’s aid being compared to not having the right to vote or not being able to work in an office or factory?
Challenge the status quo but don’t trample on freedom for the guise of freedom!
Maran atha!
Angel
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JetteZ
Guest
I don’t understand what you are trying to say.
I compared holding inflammatory signage against the president and bonfires in front of the White House to taking a knee during the national anthem. That seems very comparable.
I compared holding inflammatory signage against the president and bonfires in front of the White House to taking a knee during the national anthem. That seems very comparable.
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jcrichton
Guest
Jette, protest against the presisent and bonfires are equal to protest against the nation, really?
I thought you were going to say that they were burning the flag–disrespecting the president? Have you watched the change of guards?
Maran atha!
Angel
I thought you were going to say that they were burning the flag–disrespecting the president? Have you watched the change of guards?
Maran atha!
Angel
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DarkLight
Guest
Here’s my question: if someone wishes to protest such things, if they believe black people are not being given equal protection under the law and wish to protest - how could they go about it in a way that would be considered respectful? If so, do you think anyone would pay attention?
I see it as a criticism, and perhaps a harsh one, but criticism is not disrespect. Part of our country is that people get to criticize the government publicly.
I see it as a criticism, and perhaps a harsh one, but criticism is not disrespect. Part of our country is that people get to criticize the government publicly.
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pnewton
Guest
No one who has done this has said they are doing it to be irreverent. So how is it you know this intent you speak of?I think that you are missing the intent; the knee thing is not about God or the Church or reverence. It is actually about irreverence; for Catholics it is the equivalent of someone popping a soda and gulping it down while the Celebrant is Consecrating the bread and wine–now, tell me you would simply get your own drink and toast to that person’s health or yell out ‘G’day, Padre!’
No, kneeling is nothing like popping a soda. That is absurd.
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JetteZ
Guest
I thought the president represented our nation? I’ve heard quite a bit of grandstanding lately that mocking the president is unpatriotic.
Even if that isn’t the case, I think the comparison is still valid.
Yes, I’ve seen the changing of the guard several times. You are going to have to explain how that is pertinent to the discussion.
Even if that isn’t the case, I think the comparison is still valid.
Yes, I’ve seen the changing of the guard several times. You are going to have to explain how that is pertinent to the discussion.
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jcrichton
Guest
Since we are in North America you have the right to pretend to be patriotic by being unpatriotic.
Commonsense and an old log on the fire should remind you that anti-patriotism cannot be patriotic.
Civil disobedience does not require one to be anti-patriotic.
A call to salute the flag or to respect the national anthem is a call to unite in a patriotic stance; a call to burn the flag is not in the same vein–no matter how much sauce (double-speak and social science mumbo jumbo gets infused into the pretense) is deployed to cover the disrespect.
Maran atha!
Angel
Commonsense and an old log on the fire should remind you that anti-patriotism cannot be patriotic.
Civil disobedience does not require one to be anti-patriotic.
A call to salute the flag or to respect the national anthem is a call to unite in a patriotic stance; a call to burn the flag is not in the same vein–no matter how much sauce (double-speak and social science mumbo jumbo gets infused into the pretense) is deployed to cover the disrespect.
Maran atha!
Angel
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DarkLight
Guest
Then I’ll ask you again the same question I asked upthread: How should someone protest that will be considered respectful and non-disruptive, but also something that will genuinely draw attention to causes you think are important? Or is protesting itself an unpatriotic act?
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jcrichton
Guest
Wow… is this the twilight zone?
Do you actually believe your statement?
Do you recall the issue people were having with even “a moment of silence” because it was meant as a silent prayer?
Do you actually believe that these people are thinking, ‘since we want to make sure that people pay attention to the black citizens police officers are killing in North America, we will join the Catholic observance of prostrating themselves in the Presence of Yahweh God?’
Maran atha!
Angel
Do you actually believe your statement?
Do you recall the issue people were having with even “a moment of silence” because it was meant as a silent prayer?
Do you actually believe that these people are thinking, ‘since we want to make sure that people pay attention to the black citizens police officers are killing in North America, we will join the Catholic observance of prostrating themselves in the Presence of Yahweh God?’
Maran atha!
Angel
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jcrichton
Guest
Jette, that’s confusios talk (marriage of confusion and the Chinese sage Confucius); North Americans have the constitutional right to disagree with their leaders (all levels) and to peacefully demonstrate against them.
If it were up to me President Trump’s electronic accounts would be shut–I would have him present his communications through the resources available to him, including editors and counselors. Them wild-wild-west days have long past and he still stuck to them (shoot from the hip–don’t bother to use the gray matter).
Not once does this suggest that anyone should be unpatriotic. Of course the president may feel that I’m trampling on his freedom of speech… but he’s not a baby that has to have it his way… and what he usually shares has quite an empty-sage wisdom.
So, if I were a politico (I’m apolitical) I would go by the White House with a sign that would read: do less tweeting and more leading–again this would be totally within the bounds of reason and patriotism.
You want to see the truth about the knee? Why not take the knee right after the anthem? It would demonstrate patriotism and it would unite all North American (civilians and military) in a cause for Justice.
Maran atha!
Angel
If it were up to me President Trump’s electronic accounts would be shut–I would have him present his communications through the resources available to him, including editors and counselors. Them wild-wild-west days have long past and he still stuck to them (shoot from the hip–don’t bother to use the gray matter).
Not once does this suggest that anyone should be unpatriotic. Of course the president may feel that I’m trampling on his freedom of speech… but he’s not a baby that has to have it his way… and what he usually shares has quite an empty-sage wisdom.
So, if I were a politico (I’m apolitical) I would go by the White House with a sign that would read: do less tweeting and more leading–again this would be totally within the bounds of reason and patriotism.
You want to see the truth about the knee? Why not take the knee right after the anthem? It would demonstrate patriotism and it would unite all North American (civilians and military) in a cause for Justice.
Maran atha!
Angel
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jcrichton
Guest
I’ve just mentioned it… but I’ll expand: all those socialites’ nights, and all those drugs, alcohol, and sex orgies… all of those expensive trips, trinkets, jewelry, and toys… all those camera grabbing stunts and activities… each one of those can offer an opportunity to capitalize on fame and fortune.
Them critters that come out while the cameras are rolling do not usually stay the course (unless there’s some fat to be pocketed); confront all loss life; don’t be silent when criminals and thugs take lives but come out only for the police-involved shootings.
Politicians, civic and religious, should work consistently against the loss of life. Pretenders and well-meaning fame and fortuners (yeah, America is great, I just instituted a new form of “speak”) should put their knees where they are needed most… don’t just show up for the cameras, get involved, put your sweat, green and tears into it… for the long haul!
Be an actual patriotic model for North Americans and the world!
Maran atha!
Angel
Them critters that come out while the cameras are rolling do not usually stay the course (unless there’s some fat to be pocketed); confront all loss life; don’t be silent when criminals and thugs take lives but come out only for the police-involved shootings.
Politicians, civic and religious, should work consistently against the loss of life. Pretenders and well-meaning fame and fortuners (yeah, America is great, I just instituted a new form of “speak”) should put their knees where they are needed most… don’t just show up for the cameras, get involved, put your sweat, green and tears into it… for the long haul!
Be an actual patriotic model for North Americans and the world!
Maran atha!
Angel
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DarkLight
Guest
Two issues: one, I haven’t seen any particular evidence that those starting this protest are particularly given to drugs or drunkenness or orgies. Probably someone in the movement is, but every movement has that issue.
Two: that you have to confront every issue if you confront one is just a fallacy. None of us have time for that. Gang violence is a serious issue, but it’s a different issue than police shootings. Perhaps even, as some believe, it would be much easier to take on inner-city violence if the law-abiding citizens of those areas did not fear the police.
Three: you didn’t actually answer my question. Don’t just say something vague - tell me what concrete protest action could be taken. If someone believes police brutality and injustice against black people is an issue, how could they protest that and draw public attention to it without being disrespectful?
I’m thinking that for a lot of people, the “disrespect” isn’t actually the action taken, but that they disagree with the cause.
Two: that you have to confront every issue if you confront one is just a fallacy. None of us have time for that. Gang violence is a serious issue, but it’s a different issue than police shootings. Perhaps even, as some believe, it would be much easier to take on inner-city violence if the law-abiding citizens of those areas did not fear the police.
Three: you didn’t actually answer my question. Don’t just say something vague - tell me what concrete protest action could be taken. If someone believes police brutality and injustice against black people is an issue, how could they protest that and draw public attention to it without being disrespectful?
I’m thinking that for a lot of people, the “disrespect” isn’t actually the action taken, but that they disagree with the cause.
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MaryT777
Guest
Protesting is not in and of itself an unpatriotic act if there are valid concern such as racism. I think protesting during the national anthem IS disrespectful and disruptive. They should protest outside the football field by joining peaceful protests or join together to find a way to get the message across via media.
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