For those who believe homosexuals can change their orientation....

[Quirious]

I know that NARTH has done a ton of research on this, and they have fairly good success rate with therapy. I would guess that a lot of celibate gay-tendacy Catholics probably haven’t tried NARTH. A lot of negativity is pointed towards them because they are trying to re-orientate homosexuals, which the gay movement and the media can’t stand. A lot of people are also still under the impression that homosexuals are “born that way” even though there has been no substantial evidence for this. The APA actually just changed their statements on homosexuality to remove the biological roots of homosexuality, and are now saying that environmental causes are most likely the cause of a homosexual orientation. You can check out www.narth.com for more info.

NARTH is discredited as a quack organization.

 

[someguy14]

It sounds as though they’re getting attacked and could use praying for.

James 4:7 KJV
Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.

Matthew 19:26 KJV
But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible.

 

[TarkanAttila]

My friends didn’t tell me until after I came out so it is not in fact a self fulfilling prophecy.

It’s not that I don’t like girls, they are fine to hang out with, but the concept of actually kissing one makes me feel a little bit sick.

No one said I was gay except me.

I hope I’m not reinventing the wheel with your feelings Dakota, but I would not confuse strong attraction with sexual attraction. If you love someone a lot, even if it is not in a sexual way, of course you will want to touch them. I touch my mother, and when he was alive, I used to touch Dad, too. Sometimes I would stroke his head when he was asleep, or massage his back (because he needed it). I do the same with mom, too.

If you feel dearly for a good male friend, there is nothing wrong with wanting to intimately touch him - as long as we are not talking about intercourse or anything dealing with the genitals or any carnal relations. Which it doesn’t sound like that is what you are going after. Sounds like “Guy Love” (which isn’t as gay as it sounds, believe me).

You don’t sound like you’re interested in sex. Nothing at all wrong with that. You just want to connect in a deep way with this other fellow. Nothing wrong with that. But there are more ways to do that than sex. Pity we live in a society where sex is seen as the only way to achieve this deep interpersonal connection. Modern society’s idiotic. Don’t bother with them.

If you want to bond with this fellow, take him to church, and meditate on the Holy Eucharist, or on Mary, Our Mother. Take this to your Father in Heaven, or to Our Lady. If it is any relationship worth pursuing, love will be on your mind; sex will not.

It’s one thing when a gay couple loves each other in Christ’s charity; it is completely another when they “love” each other by fornicating and seeking state-sanctioned benefits and recognition. THAT’s ungodly.

 

[Dakota_Roberts]

I hope I’m not reinventing the wheel with your feelings Dakota, but I would not confuse strong attraction with sexual attraction. If you love someone a lot, even if it is not in a sexual way, of course you will want to touch them. I touch my mother, and when he was alive, I used to touch Dad, too. Sometimes I would stroke his head when he was asleep, or massage his back (because he needed it). I do the same with mom, too.

If you feel dearly for a good male friend, there is nothing wrong with wanting to intimately touch him - as long as we are not talking about intercourse or anything dealing with the genitals or any carnal relations. Which it doesn’t sound like that is what you are going after. Sounds like “Guy Love” (which isn’t as gay as it sounds, believe me).

You don’t sound like you’re interested in sex. Nothing at all wrong with that. You just want to connect in a deep way with this other fellow. Nothing wrong with that. But there are more ways to do that than sex. Pity we live in a society where sex is seen as the only way to achieve this deep interpersonal connection. Modern society’s idiotic. Don’t bother with them.

If you want to bond with this fellow, take him to church, and meditate on the Holy Eucharist, or on Mary, Our Mother. Take this to your Father in Heaven, or to Our Lady. If it is any relationship worth pursuing, love will be on your mind; sex will not.

It’s one thing when a gay couple loves each other in Christ’s charity; it is completely another when they “love” each other by fornicating and seeking state-sanctioned benefits and recognition. THAT’s ungodly.

To get an idea of how I feel listen to Truly, Madly, Deeply and Every time we Touch by Cascada

So basically bromance eh? Well, guess what, the European past is very Ho Yay (minus sex of course), once you get out of the Middle Ages the letters some of these guys’ letters get rather steamy. (Don’t worry, Erasmus and St. Thomas More were BFFs not Ho Yay, although there was that one letter…)

You don’t need to tell a mediaevalist twice that the present day sucks compare to ye* past

Actually that’s kind of what I was thinking of, though first I should get him away from libertarianism and instead hook him up with distributism D)

Very much agreed, love isn’t condemned, but sex is thus simply no sex in the relationship (although it’s still a very much complicated relationship)

*ye is pronounced as “the”, if you are wondering why you can blame þorn and *die Deutche *

 

[michelleds]

My friends didn’t tell me until after I came out so it is not in fact a self fulfilling prophecy.

It’s not that I don’t like girls, they are fine to hang out with, but the concept of actually kissing one makes me feel a little bit sick.

No one said I was gay except me.

Dakota, forgive me if I am redundant to others in this post. I’m trying to follow three fairly active homosexual threads right now and I might have missed some of the posts in this particular thread.

If I read your posts correctly, you started out by saying that you had an attraction to another male. Then later on you say that you have “come out” and no one has called you gay except yourself.

Brother, please stop identifying yourself with your sexuality. You are a child of God and a Catholic, and your focus should not be on some 20th or 21st century “identity” but on the love of God and learning to love others as Jesus did. Aim for purity, as the Scriptures call us to do so, and remove yourself from near occasions of sin. in your case, near occasions of sin might include trying to come up with justifications, reasons and examples (including from the middle ages).

 

[francisca]

My friends didn’t tell me until after I came out so it is not in fact a self fulfilling prophecy.

It’s not that I don’t like girls, they are fine to hang out with, but the concept of actually kissing one makes me feel a little bit sick.

No one said I was gay except me.

In your post 95

you said in your own words that “some of your friends suspected that you were gay”

 

[Dakota_Roberts]

Dakota, forgive me if I am redundant to others in this post. I’m trying to follow three fairly active homosexual threads right now and I might have missed some of the posts in this particular thread.

If I read your posts correctly, you started out by saying that you had an attraction to another male. Then later on you say that you have “come out” and no one has called you gay except yourself.

Brother, please stop identifying yourself with your sexuality. You are a child of God and a Catholic, and your focus should not be on some 20th or 21st century “identity” but on the love of God and learning to love others as Jesus did. Aim for purity, as the Scriptures call us to do so, and remove yourself from near occasions of sin. in your case, near occasions of sin might include trying to come up with justifications, reasons and examples (including from the middle ages).

Why would someone call me gay?

Considering I firmly oppose “gay culture” I don’t identify with it really

I would be incapable of engaging in sex with him because I couldn’t bear to assist someone I care for in engaging in mortal sin.

Love strengthened by the Holy Spirit through prayer is not a thing very vulnerable to sin.

 

[michelleds]

Why would someone call me gay?

Considering I firmly oppose “gay culture” I don’t identify with it really

I would be incapable of engaging in sex with him because I couldn’t bear to assist someone I care for in engaging in mortal sin.

Love strengthened by the Holy Spirit through prayer is not a thing very vulnerable to sin.

That’s great. I’ve taken the liberty of posting your previous comment, emphasis mine.

My friends didn’t tell me ***until after I came out ***so it is not in fact a self fulfilling prophecy.

It’s not that I don’t like girls, they are fine to hang out with, but the concept of actually kissing one makes me feel a little bit sick.

No one said I was gay except me.

 

[Dakota_Roberts]

That’s great. I’ve taken the liberty of posting your previous comment, emphasis mine.

There is gay culture and then there is being gay (SSA), one can belong to the latter, but not the former. Alas I can’t just make my feelings go away and hiding in the closet was frankly really depressing. I’ve actually become a more devout Catholic since I came out.

 

[Quirious]

There is gay culture and then there is being gay (SSA), one can belong to the latter, but not the former. Alas I can’t just make my feelings go away and hiding in the closet was frankly really depressing. I’ve actually become a more devout Catholic since I came out.

Rejection of “gay culture” is unadulterated hatred and bigotry. Period.

Unless of course, rejection of Catholic Culture is entirely legitimate and to be commended.

Every group has its culture. Blacks, Mexicans, French, Brazilians, Firemen, Cops, Teachers… That is a morally neutral fact.

 

[Elizabeth502]

Rejection of “gay culture” is unadulterated hatred and bigotry. Period.

Not according to many people with SSA who in fact do reject the subculture and do not wish to be identified with it. Are you calling them hateful and bigoted? Who are you to stand in moral judgment over their legitimate personal preferences? Rejection does not equal persecution. It simply means one does not wish to ally one’s sexuality with membership in a club. Many people choose to keep their atractions, including those not acted upon, private.

I don’t belong to a heterosexual club, either. Nor a womanist/feminist subculture. I’ve never felt comfortable in this kind of a “cause” or “solidarity” based on gender. If I wish to associate with or support a particular cause which happens to be populated by mainly or only women, then I’m championing the cause (such as working against sex trafficking or spousal abuse, or working for a particular positive cause), not the gender, and certainly not the sexual orientation.

 

[Quirious]

Not according to many people with SSA who in fact do reject the subculture and do not wish to be identified with it. Are you calling them hateful and bigoted? Who are you to stand in moral judgment over their legitimate personal preferences? Rejection does not equal persecution. It simply means one does not wish to ally one’s sexuality with membership in a club. Many people choose to keep their atractions, including those not acted upon, private.

I don’t belong to a heterosexual club, either. Nor a womanist/feminist subculture. I’ve never felt comfortable in this kind of a “cause” or “solidarity” based on gender. If I wish to associate with or support a particular cause which happens to be populated by mainly or only women, then I’m championing the cause (such as working against sex trafficking or spousal abuse, or working for a particular positive cause), not the gender, and certainly not the sexual orientation.

You are correct. I should have said that the hatred and prejudice directed toward any minorities subculture is nothing more than that. Browsing the threads, it appears that you have a particular interest in homosexuality, Elizabeth.

 

[michelleds]

You are correct. I should have said that the hatred and prejudice directed toward any minorities subculture is nothing more than that. Browsing the threads, it appears that you have a particular interest in homosexuality, Elizabeth.

and you appear to be operating with an agenda as well. Those of us who are or were SSA can certainly attest to our personal experiences with a gay subculture and we can reject that subculture without getting your permission. or anyone else’s for that matter. it is complete malarky to attribute hate and prejudice to anyone for rejecting a subculture to which they could or have been a member.

 

[Elizabeth502]

A “culture,” as used in this context, is an optional group of behaviors and an optional identity with those behaviors. How does choosing not to associate with those behaviors equate with “hatred and bigotry?”

(That was a rhetorical question. There is no association.)

And yes, I am especially interested in the corruption of our society by the activists among the Gay Lobby, many of whom advocate on CAF for a disintgeration of sexual norms.

 

[EasterJoy]

Rejection of “gay culture” is unadulterated hatred and bigotry. Period.

Unless of course, rejection of Catholic Culture is entirely legitimate and to be commended.

Every group has its culture. Blacks, Mexicans, French, Brazilians, Firemen, Cops, Teachers… That is a morally neutral fact.

No. “Culture” is not morally neutral. The KKK has a culture. The plantation system had a culture. Even among police and educators and other sections of the workforce, there are healthy cultures and toxic ones. We all know that high schools and grade schools can have cultures that can be either heaven or hell for the students, depending on which “culture” prevails.

It is not bigotted to reject those cultural aspects shared and advanced by some homosexuals which are immoral, emotionally toxic, or based on falsehoods…and no, the whole world does not have to take the word of people who are “in the culture” concerning what is true about them and what is false. Homosexuals are as capable of self-deception and group toxicity as anyone else!

 

[TarkanAttila]

Rejection of “gay culture” is unadulterated hatred and bigotry. Period.

Unless of course, rejection of Catholic Culture is entirely legitimate and to be commended.

Every group has its culture. Blacks, Mexicans, French, Brazilians, Firemen, Cops, Teachers… That is a morally neutral fact.

Bullsh**. If a culture is immoral, it must be suppressed. Gay culture is immoral because it teaches sodomy and sapphism (the sexual acts themselves) are moral and good.

We try to suppress other criminal cultures, like those that steal, kill, or rape (like the Bloods and Cripps, or the Mafia). Why not the LGBT culture that supports immoral sexual action?

There is NOTHING wrong with BEING homosexual, or having SSA - just as there is nothing wrong with being an alcoholic, or liking alcohol. It’s ACTING on it that’s the problem.

A “culture,” as used in this context, is an optional group of behaviors and an optional identity with those behaviors. How does choosing not to associate with those behaviors equate with “hatred and bigotry?”

(That was a rhetorical question. There is no association.)

And yes, I am especially interested in the corruption of our society by the activists among the Gay Lobby, many of whom advocate on CAF for a disintgeration of sexual norms.

This.

 

[Dakota_Roberts]

A “culture,” as used in this context, is an optional group of behaviors and an optional identity with those behaviors. How does choosing not to associate with those behaviors equate with “hatred and bigotry?”

(That was a rhetorical question. There is no association.)

And yes, I am especially interested in the corruption of our society by the activists among the Gay Lobby, many of whom advocate on CAF for a disintgeration of sexual norms.

Who said or insinuated “choosing not to associate with those behaviors equates with hatred and bigotry”?

“… advocate on CAF for a disintgeration of sexual norms” What, where? Let me at em! :nunchuk:

I’m just kidding, if they are here we should love them until they join the dark side, for we have cookies!

 

[Hadrianus]

"… join the dark side, for we have cookies! "

Hilarious!.. and true.

Reminds me of the time I read an Anticatholic work called “The Two Babylons” which claimed that the “Romish Worship” was that of Paganism, and it converted me at once to Catholicism. I thought: “all this, and Isis too,” sounds good to me.

But seriously, orthodox Catholics do have more fun. True, our liturgy is a shambles and we need to get back to the Latin Mass, but otherwise we are so much better off than secularists and dissenter type Catholics who spend all their time complaining. You only need to look at the Pope and the people who hate him: who looks happier and more contented?

 

[Dakota_Roberts]

Hey Dakota Roberts! I am also SSA and don’t think for a moment you are a freak. You are a child of God! That makes you a tressure beyond anyting on this Earth!

I don’t know why or how you and I and the rest of our SSA brothers and sisters ended up with SSA, but that is not really important. The importatnt part is to walk in the light of Christ and you can have a happy and full life!

Here is a link to a video I found extremely helpful.

youtube.com/watch?v=K0sILSapUUc

God Bless. Please feel free to PM me if you would like.

Actually I was joking because of Wardog’s ridiculous statement, although I will admit I am a neat freak
“Beyond anything on this Earth”? How about every other person?

The night is so dark and lonely

It was interesting,

Living a chaste life is the change that is possible. St. Paul said that we become a new creation in Christ. That is the change that is expected. If someone desires, truly desires that they want to have a relationship that God intended them for, then it depends on the person’s faith for one, but if they have been in that life for so long that they can’t get those pictures out of their head, they may feel it may not be fair in their mind to burden someone else’s life with their baggage. So it depends.

If God didn’t create us to have SS, then why would it be impossible for someone to revert to their proper attraction that they should have had in the first place? I believe the ones that don’t want to deal with a relationship may just want to give their whole life to God and that may be what God wants for them, but others may really want to have a marriage and children and want to see if that is possible. Good therapy that can identify the wounds that brought the attraction to the wrong sex, along with the person’s faith have had success in that area. They were not born this way, they developed it from many factors. Never give up with God. All things are possible with God, but how much does a person want it and their faith will depend on it as well as God’s will. I don’t think that Jesus said anything in this life is going to be easy, but he did say it would be worth it. Won’t we always have temptations in life? That is why everything depends on God.
Never give in and never give up!
God Bless

Be a saint, what else is there?

Well, yesterday I did a black fast and I prayed to God before class to give me a sign if I should pursue him or not and I got hugged by him. I’m continuing my black fast for the rest of the week at least, I’ve prayed the rosary nine times today and I feel positively euphoric.
:extrahappy:

“If” is the operative word. For perhaps some who have SSA were born so from their mother’s womb: and there are some who were made so by men: and there are others who work for the kingdom of heaven. Perhaps God has a purpose for us, the purpose of suffering is to bring about greater good so doesn’t much suffering bring about great good?

“For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light” Sorta sounds like he’s saying something is east

yes, absolutely! (from another with SSA)

There seems to be a lot of us

"… join the dark side, for we have cookies! "

Hilarious!.. and true.

Reminds me of the time I read an Anticatholic work called “The Two Babylons” which claimed that the “Romish Worship” was that of Paganism, and it converted me at once to Catholicism. I thought: “all this, and Isis too,” sounds good to me.

But seriously, orthodox Catholics do have more fun. True, our liturgy is a shambles and we need to get back to the Latin Mass, but otherwise we are so much better off than secularists and dissenter type Catholics who spend all their time complaining. You only need to look at the Pope and the people who hate him: who looks happier and more contented?

Who can resist snickerdoodles?


Dan Brown made me Catholic, his ridiculous claims drove me into European history which of course wound up driving me into the Church

 

[Hadrianus]

@ Dakota,

        How funny about Dan Brown.  he stole the whole premise from a book called "Holy Blood, Holy Grail" written in the 1980's and published by the old and distinguished firm of Jonathan Cape in London, who should have known better, but I suppose would do anything for money. It was an ingenious hoax based upon an erroneous account of a 19nth Century priest at Rennes-le-Chateau and Poussin's painting of the Shepherds in Arcadia, combined with the myth of St mary Magdalene's voyage to France and the claim of the Merovingian kings that they descended from King David. In the Early Middle Ages it was the fashion for kings of the recently converted barbarian nations to establish a kind of legitimacy by claiming descent from biblical figures or Roman Emperors. Then we have the "Prieure de Sion", itself a hoax perpetrated by two French writers who cooked it up in the 1950's and got their book into the Bibliotheque Nationale in Paris. The original authors of "Holy Blood" did sue Brown for plaigerism, but as their own work was hardly a scholarly text, I don't think they got very far. Opus Dei got mileage out of it too, because people began to think they seemed really interesting.
          The law of unintended consequences sometimes works in favor of Truth!

PS What is a snickerdoodle? Sounds like the name of some 19nth Century German philosopher.