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Lilyofthevalley
Guest
The majorty of converts are “anti” whatever they formerly were.
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Mickey
Guest
Respectfully disagree.
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SusanL
Guest
How do you mean? I was raised in a large Methodist church. I was in every choir, summer camp, musical, and youth group that they had.
I am so happy to now be Catholic. If I’m anti-anything, I guess that I’m anti -whatever the world teaches. (That is: whatever the world teaches that doesn’t conform with what God teaches).
When we have said “anti-Catholic” we meant Catholic bashing. If that is your definition, too, then I would have to very respectfully but strongly disagree. I never bash the Methodist church. I just don’t agree with her teachings. What I have since found simply blows me away. I cannot explain the wonder of the depths that I have found and I find it difficult to not go to my parents and say, “Guess what I found out!!!” They would not understand and it would hurt them too much.
But as to bashing? No. I don’t do that. And I am a convert.
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Ani_Ibi
Guest
Philthy said:
Fair enough.
At the top of this screen are two red bars. On the second bar down, toward the right, you will find a button called ‘Profile.’ Click on there and you will find all sorts of additional things to click on.
Context: On this board and on other boards a regrettable but frequent occurence is the phenomenon of the ‘poseur’: someone who claims disingenuously to be Catholic in order to gain credibility for dismantling Church teachings. Where there is a doubt in my mind, I usually ask the question which you have now answered. Why? Because I am far more gentle with a non-Catholic than with a Catholic.
Dunno about math, but this is my family trying to get the log out of Uncle Joe’s eye.
http://wwwgen.bham.wednet.edu/4gicedar.jpg
And this is a picture of Uncle Joe’s mote … er, moat:
http://www.fotosearch.com/comp/corel/CPH137/121010.jpg
No. I think that you are correct in saying that there is much to be reclaimed in Catholic life. (Food for another thread?) However, it is wise also to acknowledge the depth and breadth of what is already there in terms of community outreach.
Oh! You made me an offer I can’t refuse! Links?
OK. Can you bring back hockey?
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MariaG
Guest
Respectfully Lily, I too must disagree. Every single convert from Protestant to Catholic here has expressed sadness and regret.
Most former Catholic at the very least have serious doubts as to the salvation of Catholics and many doubt whether the Catholic Church is actually Christian. Whereas Catholic converts do not doubt the basic Christianity or salvation of Protestants.
As someone who walked in Protestant and Catholic, let me say I have personally never met a convert who said Protestants are not Christians, but I met many, many who say Catholics are not.
This experience is fairly universal among all posters here.
God Bless,
Maria
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Ani_Ibi
Guest
Did someone sayBut don’t let anyone else mess with us,that is twirling time
Twirling time?
http://www.tntwirlers.com/images/2004Kellyfield_2.jpg
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Church_Militant
Guest
J.R.:
A generalization that sadly is all too true. I have to agree.
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Ani_Ibi
Guest
Children will plunge themselves into things which have a good story to them. Children love stories. They love to partipate in stories, to say the words, to draw pictures about them, to dress up in costumes and portray characters in them. It sounds like your nephews instinctly sensed the story in the Liturgy.
Mass is fun!
We can learn a lot from children. Jesus said, " Let the children come to me"
Yep.
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Mickey
Guest
Ani Ibi:
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Church_Militant
Guest
Maybe this just tells us that youngsters can and do recognize the very presence of God if we expose them to it, huh?
Did they ask lots of questions?
Pax vobiscum,
P.S. Bet they’ll never grow up anti-Catholic!
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Mickey
Guest
Church Militant:
They asked tons of questions. They were very excited! The youngest boy asked me what the people were eating when they stood in line. I told him it was the body and blood of Jesus. His eyes got very wide. The older boy responded by saying, “We aren’t old enough to do that in our church”. Of course, this broke my heart. In the Byzantine Catholic Tradition infants receive Baptism, Chrismation, and Holy Communion at the same time. Yet as baptists, these boys must wait until some imaginary age of accountability before they can receive their symbolic ordinances! :banghead:
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reggie
Guest
xavier,
Twice now I have responded to your claim that priestly celibacy does not have support in Scripture. You have side-stepped the issue with your response that you agree that the church has the right to determine discipline of its clergy. That is another evasive answer. Please respond as to whether or not there is Scripture to support it. Since you know it so well, I don’t suppose that I have to give you the verses, but I will if you need them.
I admit that initially I felt this to be way off the topic of this thread, but I feel that it is illustrative of how many poorly catechized Catholics are lured away. You say priestly celibacy is unbiblical, because Peter was married. If you can chip away at the small stuff, it creates doubt about the big stuff until the foundation is totally undermined. Pretty soon, the entire church seems to fall apart.
The thing is, when Catholics who have very limited knowledge of what the church holds to be true, or why it believes these truths, hear this type of arguement, they become disturbed when someone like you says, well, just look at how they forbid marriage for priests even though St. Peter was married.Then of course, you hit them with some other revelation of your own interpretation. When people aren’t well informed, they can be blindsided by someone who knows how to use Scripture to their advantage. It’s like the JW’s or the Mormons.
Unfortunately, instead of researching on their own, these uninformed Catholics take what they hear as truth, then they begin to question everything about the church and eventually, they leave. Then comes the anger that they were deceived by the church and the lashing out at all things Catholic.
Here, however, you are not dealing with Catholics who don’t know and understand their faith. They are informed, or willing to learn and they are ready to refute people like you. You can’t bully us or patronize or arrogantly proclaim things here. We will hold your feet to the fire. What I have seen though is that you are very good at dodging and sleight of hand with your posts.
Come on, Xavier, answer one thing directly, if you are so sure of yourself, you should have no problem.
There is in fact Scripture to support both a married and unmarried priesthood. What do you say to that?
Twice now I have responded to your claim that priestly celibacy does not have support in Scripture. You have side-stepped the issue with your response that you agree that the church has the right to determine discipline of its clergy. That is another evasive answer. Please respond as to whether or not there is Scripture to support it. Since you know it so well, I don’t suppose that I have to give you the verses, but I will if you need them.
I admit that initially I felt this to be way off the topic of this thread, but I feel that it is illustrative of how many poorly catechized Catholics are lured away. You say priestly celibacy is unbiblical, because Peter was married. If you can chip away at the small stuff, it creates doubt about the big stuff until the foundation is totally undermined. Pretty soon, the entire church seems to fall apart.
The thing is, when Catholics who have very limited knowledge of what the church holds to be true, or why it believes these truths, hear this type of arguement, they become disturbed when someone like you says, well, just look at how they forbid marriage for priests even though St. Peter was married.Then of course, you hit them with some other revelation of your own interpretation. When people aren’t well informed, they can be blindsided by someone who knows how to use Scripture to their advantage. It’s like the JW’s or the Mormons.
Unfortunately, instead of researching on their own, these uninformed Catholics take what they hear as truth, then they begin to question everything about the church and eventually, they leave. Then comes the anger that they were deceived by the church and the lashing out at all things Catholic.
Here, however, you are not dealing with Catholics who don’t know and understand their faith. They are informed, or willing to learn and they are ready to refute people like you. You can’t bully us or patronize or arrogantly proclaim things here. We will hold your feet to the fire. What I have seen though is that you are very good at dodging and sleight of hand with your posts.
Come on, Xavier, answer one thing directly, if you are so sure of yourself, you should have no problem.
There is in fact Scripture to support both a married and unmarried priesthood. What do you say to that?
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Philthy
Guest
Ani Ibi:
At the top of this screen are two red bars. On the second bar down, toward the right, you will find a button called ‘Profile.’ Click on there and you will find all sorts of additional things to click on.
Thank you. Is it a good idea to “show your hand”?
Ani Ibi:
At the top of this screen are two red bars. On the second bar down, toward the right, you will find a button called ‘Profile.’ Click on there and you will find all sorts of additional things to click on.
Thank you. Is it a good idea to “show your hand”?
Ani Ibi:
Context: On this board and on other boards a regrettable but frequent occurence is the phenomenon of the ‘poseur’: someone who claims disingenuously to be Catholic in order to gain credibility for dismantling Church teachings. Where there is a doubt in my mind, I usually ask the question which you have now answered. Why? Because I am far more gentle with a non-Catholic than with a Catholic.
Ani Ibi:
Yeah you’re right. It just breaks my heart to know how many Catholics wouldn’t look elsewhere if they had that sense of community - I guess I feel some personal responsibility believe it or not - I could be doing more. I’m a middle child - I always look to bring people together and even though they own some of the responsibility I easily overlook it and even absorb some of it. There is more to the story - perhaps we’ll talk another time.
Ani Ibi:
Ani Ibi:Oh! You made me an offer I can’t refuse! Links?
This is an absolute marathon thread - over 1550 posts…it finally had to be killed by the moderators…vintage Ozzie (who I like). Again, middle child - I like everybody.
Ani Ibi:
No, sorry. I’m glad to have another friend though…OK. Can you bring back hockey?
Phil
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Xavier
Guest
I had to look up one of your previous posts since you claim I have not adiquately answered them in post #191.
What I have tried to express is that Peter being married is “trump card” in this arguement. Anything a Catholic would say after this fact is brought up is lame at best, other than its within the RCC prerogative to establish the eligiblity of their priests.
Jesus, was not married. John the Baptist was not married some of the Old Testament prophets were unmarried, some were. The Old Testament priesthood was established with Aaron a married priest. All this says to me is that there can be married and unmarried men in the priesthood.
Let me clarify when I say priesthood I am refering to the office in all of Christiandom not specifically to the RCC.
My whole argument has been that it is not correct to state that the argument that priests remain celibate is biblical. I will not conceed this point.
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Xavier
Guest
I notice too that you refer to yourself as an ex-Catholic. It appears from your posts, you are one of the ones who leaves and then bashes. So I guess in a way, you have answered the original question.
First let me state this. I was raised Catholic. Attended Catholic grade school. Was an altar boy. Two years at a conservative Catholic college. Went astray lived years in selfish lusts returned to the church, read the Saints, all night prayer vigils, stayed in monastaries on my vacation, etc etc.
What I was looking for I now have. The Living God who walks with me and abides constantly in me. I went outside the RCC to locate him. I know Catholic doctrine, I know what you believe. When you say I bash–it is I know what you have, I know what I now have. What I now have is so much better
First let me state this. I was raised Catholic. Attended Catholic grade school. Was an altar boy. Two years at a conservative Catholic college. Went astray lived years in selfish lusts returned to the church, read the Saints, all night prayer vigils, stayed in monastaries on my vacation, etc etc.
What I was looking for I now have. The Living God who walks with me and abides constantly in me. I went outside the RCC to locate him. I know Catholic doctrine, I know what you believe. When you say I bash–it is I know what you have, I know what I now have. What I now have is so much better
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Church_Militant
Guest
Xavier’s
Just out of curiosity? Where have you landed? What church do you attend and what religion is it. Please don’t hand me that “Christian” stuff because I know that you know exactly what I mean.
Pax vobiscum ya rascal you…
Xavier, with all due respect buddy, this statement is not apparent from your posts here because you do not display a good working knowlege of what we really believe, but a really serious case of having been spoonfed non-Catholic and in some cases even anti-Catholic rhetoric. I might well have said the same thing about 3 years ago, but it would’ve been untrue as well until I really got into reading what the church really does teach.
Just out of curiosity? Where have you landed? What church do you attend and what religion is it. Please don’t hand me that “Christian” stuff because I know that you know exactly what I mean.
Pax vobiscum ya rascal you…
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Ani_Ibi
Guest
Do you mean is it a good idea for someone to include their religion in their profile? If so, then yes I think it is useful. I think it is part of introducing oneself and, since this is a religious topic board, knowing the religion of other people helps to understand where they are coming from, boundaries, that sort of thing. Of course people can always claim a religion to which they don’t belong. This, however, would be deceitful but doomed, for it soon becomes apparent that they are not who they say they are. Misrepresentation of oneself, imho, is a serious violation of CA’s hospitality and should be reported to the mods.
Ani Ibi:
Not me. Never seen a troll. You guys down there see any trolls?
http://www.trolls.com/catalog/pixlarge/16mf2.jpg
Teddy and Tom:
Have you considered the possibility that you might have a calling to be a community builder in the Church? :bounce:
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Philthy
Guest
Ani Ibi:
Ani Ibi:
Gottle of Geer:
Phil
I kind of like not knowing too much about other people - it’s one of the great things about on line dialogue - yaknow? anyhow, thanks for the lessin - I went to my profle and filled out my religion…l
Ani Ibi:
I like your humorous side! I never caught a glimpse of it from the other threads we intersected on…
Gottle of Geer:
I’m strongly convinced that I am to serve in this capacity. Have not been exactly embraced by the powers that be in my Parish. They are all so focused on the kids! I will keep pushing, though. It’s too important to simply ignore. I don’t consider myself particularly holy or even spiritually gifted - though I thank God for all that I have been given - but I do feel that I have somehow been “independently prepared” for some type of community building. I still find it a little ackward to speak this way, but I do feel like God has been working in my life and that a lot of what has happened to me is for the purpose of strengthening others in their faith - just on the local level. I’ve been anxious for months to move forward but it hasn’t happened yet…Have you considered the possibility that you might have a calling to be a community builder in the Church? :bounce:
Phil
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Ani_Ibi
Guest
My friend went off and took some kind of training at St Pauls University. There is some kind of generational gap happening in the Church. Many of the parents do not have strong grounding in Catholic teaching. My friend will be writing some programs for adults to fellowship and learn.
Now this all happened way above the parish level. Her parish wouldn’t let her do anything. She eventually went to the Cardinal’s office! I guess because she thought it was important enough.
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mtr01
Guest
Ani Ibi:
http://ideabox.debatenation.com/images/smilies/happydance.gif
Bahahahahahaha…Ani, you are a trip!
http://ideabox.debatenation.com/images/smilies/happydance.gif
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