Former Catholics

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You’ll notice I said ‘‘cleansed in the fires’’ not charred or burnt 👍 I don’t really even think there’ll be flames as such. Except in the heart. The flames will ‘‘purify’’ the heart, making it new in the sight of God, any stains will be eroded, and the heart will be made worthy in the sight of God.

Now, in Hell, Im quite clear there really will be actual flames, gas mark 8, and a roasting spit :eek: :eek:
“Gas mark 8”? I’m not sure what that is but it sounds real bad. Is that like VX gas
 
I think many have the consept of purgatory as punishing flames that really burn and char us. I’m not sure this is correct. But to be honest, I haven’t done an in depth study.
No one really knows for sure. The Church won’t even say if Purgatory is a “place” or simply a “state of being.” I kind of like to think of it as the “mud room” you pass through and get cleaned up in, on your way to Heaven. (CS Lewis likened it to having dental work done, and then the dentist says, “Rinse your mouth out.”)Everyone in Purgatory will eventually be in Heaven. As a Baptist, we called it “God’s refining fire” but it usually meant trials we go through in life rather than a refining of our souls prior to our entrance into Heaven.
 
Would I ever go back to the Catholic belief system? Never.

I would never give up the relationship I have with the Lord to go back to that.

Heres a funny story: I felt a sudden call (still catholic then) to move to Austin, but I dont want to go. After lots of thought I moved there, on the way my mother whom I hadnt spoke to in about 5 years calls and tells me to get off exit 508 to meet her, then when I moved in I went to check out this sanctuary called Shoreline where they were teaching about being unleashed from religion.

Guess what the holy spirit told me when I was first annointed with oil: 1 Corinthians 12:10.

Ive gone on to see friends literally drag their crutches away, ive had my shoulder healed as well, but this wasnt done the exaulting way like on tv. Just some friends and I at their house I believe.
 
What was the straw on the camel’s back? What was it that caused you ultimately to leave the Catholic Church and how hard was it for you?
Not really hard to ultimately leave, but deep frustration in the weeks leading up to it. The Roman Catholic church in my opinion does not teach doctrines that parallel Scripture; nor do its dogmas. It is inconceivable to me that a church can teach that Scripture equals Tradition and Magisterium in authority but yet trumps Scripture with both.
 
So its considered judgmental or self-righteous if you are against abortion? Hmmm…

Actually, i was trying to put myself in her shoes, even though i disagree with her action - but what made me even more curious was her statement - that she got ‘locked out’.

I don’t know about Catholic churches in the U.S of A, but i do know Catholic churches here are open everyday from 5a.m till 10 p.m for contemplation and worship.
It was a different time and place. A lot of people were lost from that generation.

The Catholic church over much of the USA behaved (and was perceived generally by most young Catholics) more as an institution, and less as a community. Some have compared it, and I agree, to an industrial process of dispensing sacraments. One did not often get that warm fuzzy feeling of belonging. For many of us it was a cold and sterile environment.

I do not see the church that way anymore, I and the church here have both changed.

I think what the poster was trying to convey was the sense of a missed opportunity at conversion. There is such a sinking feeling when one really needs to be before the Blessed Sacrament or pour one’s heart out before the Holy Altar of God and find that cold heavy door unyeilding. When one is in such a sensitive state of mind, soul-sick perhaps, it can seem like a message from God saying “don’t look here…turn around…I will lead you elsewhere”
 
It was a different time and place. A lot of people were lost from that generation.

***The Catholic church over much of the USA behaved (and was perceived generally by most young Catholics) more as an institution, and less as a community. Some have compared it, and I agree, to an industrial process of dispensing sacraments. One did not often get that warm fuzzy feeling of belonging. For many of us it was a cold and sterile environment.

I do not see the church that way anymore, I and the church here have both changed.***

I think what the poster was trying to convey was the sense of a missed opportunity at conversion. There is such a sinking feeling when one really needs to be before the Blessed Sacrament or pour one’s heart out before the Holy Altar of God and find that cold heavy door unyeilding. When one is in such a sensitive state of mind, soul-sick perhaps, it can seem like a message from God saying “don’t look here…turn around…I will lead you elsewhere”
I find your assessment very interesting. I have said for a long time that the one church who got family values and the feeling of community right was the Catholic church from the early 1900’s to the 1950’s-early 60’s. I am not saying it has it wrong now by any means, but why has it seemed to changed to something that some might call sterile? I admire everything I have read about the church during that time period, but it seems that it became somewhat secular during that time-frame, and for some it has continued to this day (i.e., people dressing in drag when receiving communion). I wish the U.S.A. could have something like that again.
 
It was a different time and place. A lot of people were lost from that generation.

The Catholic church over much of the USA behaved (and was perceived generally by most young Catholics) more as an institution, and less as a community. Some have compared it, and I agree, to an industrial process of dispensing sacraments. One did not often get that warm fuzzy feeling of belonging. For many of us it was a cold and sterile environment.

I do not see the church that way anymore, I and the church here have both changed.

I think what the poster was trying to convey was the sense of a missed opportunity at conversion. There is such a sinking feeling when one really needs to be before the Blessed Sacrament or pour one’s heart out before the Holy Altar of God and find that cold heavy door unyeilding. When one is in such a sensitive state of mind, soul-sick perhaps, it can seem like a message from God saying “don’t look here…turn around…I will lead you elsewhere”
It sounds more like your take on how Catholicism has failed you and you being led to the Orthodox Church? There are more people outside the Catholic Church who want to become part of the Community. From what i have read through confessions of their own, they’ve grown tired of the repetitious happy-clappy churches they have been accustomed to and the constant bickering of pastors over who correctly interprets Scripture.

I have also had my share of visiting other churches when i was going through RCIA, just to make sure of myself. I have visited Protestant churches and even the Oriental and Orthodox churches. Both had their similar pro’s and con’s about them, but what ultimately led me to choose the Catholic Church was its strong foundation of Christ’s message and the teaching authority it holds. The Orthodox church came close, but it lacked One Voice over several issues.
 
I find this thread fasinating, but in my experence I don’t think people really care why I left the Catholic Church. I mean no dis-respect to Catholics, but I can give about 1000 reasons why I left. Once again no dis-respect intended. I came back into the Catholic Church after being a Baptist assosiate pastor. My wife converted to the faith. I tought Bible studies in 2 parishes. I had study Apologetics and Salvation History from Scott Hahn. The resistance and persecution I got from liberal priest was incredible. They rejected Apologetics, the Mass in Heaven, and Salvation history. This wasn’t one priest, but everyone I came across. They seemed more intrested in the politics in running a corperation than the true teachings of the Church. I’ve watched them squash Charismatic prayer groups and anything their liberal minds did not agree with. The straw that broke the camels back is when my own cousin, a Catholic priest, came to my saintly mothers funeral and walk around like a pumpus jerk ,telling everyone how they were going to hell! I found no support system in the Catholic Church. For priest to be leaders in the Church and be more intrested in a homosexual convention than Catholic Family Confrence did it for me. To reject the Mass in heaven and the teachings of the early Church I couldn’t stomach it any longer. Like I said I found no support in the Catholic Church. I could rambel on about many other things, but what would be the point! I found no one seemed to care. Any ways there is my reason for leaving.
 
I find this thread fasinating, but in my experence I don’t think people really care why I left the Catholic Church. I mean no dis-respect to Catholics, but I can give about 1000 reasons why I left. Once again no dis-respect intended. I came back into the Catholic Church after being a Baptist assosiate pastor. My wife converted to the faith. I tought Bible studies in 2 parishes. I had study Apologetics and Salvation History from Scott Hahn. The resistance and persecution I got from liberal priest was incredible. They rejected Apologetics, the Mass in Heaven, and Salvation history. This wasn’t one priest, but everyone I came across. They seemed more intrested in the politics in running a corperation than the true teachings of the Church. I’ve watched them squash Charismatic prayer groups and anything their liberal minds did not agree with. The straw that broke the camels back is when my own cousin, a Catholic priest, came to my saintly mothers funeral and walk around like a pumpus jerk ,telling everyone how they were going to hell! I found no support system in the Catholic Church. For priest to be leaders in the Church and be more intrested in a homosexual convention than Catholic Family Confrence did it for me. To reject the Mass in heaven and the teachings of the early Church I couldn’t stomach it any longer. Like I said I found no support in the Catholic Church. I could rambel on about many other things, but what would be the point! I found no one seemed to care. Any ways there is my reason for leaving.
I was thinking of returning but this kindof thing conserns me. Can you give me more detail by PMing me so I can discuss this futher?
 
What was the straw on the camel’s back? What was it that caused you ultimately to leave the Catholic Church and how hard was it for you?
That’s a good Question, and it can all be answered in one word …

Betrayal.

I was born and raised Catholic, and served the church in every capacity that I could. Alter server, and then helping with communion and aiding in the organization of a youth group as I entered Uni. My intention was to become a Nun, and a teacher.

Now I’m not even a Catholic.

For me it started at Uni when I took Catholic history courses, taught by an ex-nun who married an ex-priest. She hid nothing from us. I learned about our first popes, their histories, their belief systems, and how certain rules came to be. I was aghast with disgust, and felt betrayed, and lied to.

I will not list the details, as I don’t want others to crash as I did, or to be responsible for someone losing their faith.

At this point I began searching for God. I had looked into many different faiths, and thought of God as the parable about the blind men trying to describe an elephant. (Tail - Elephant is like a snake … Leg - elephant is like a Tree … ) Not a direct quote

Different religions I explored include … Native American spiritualism, wiccan, JW, and bits of pieces of others as well. None of them stuck, as Christ wasn’t a part of any of them. That is when I realized that Christianity is the only religion with the most truths. However, I was not ready to enter into the Roman Catholic Church.

Unfortunately I allowed myself to believe and state things about the Bible which I am ashamed to have thought.

I have since read the Bible from cover to cover, and find it to be the ultimate word of God, and the truth that no person should live without.

If you were to ask me what church I belonged to … I couldn’t say. I’m afraid to hear what people say about God, as I can’t shake that feeling of betrayal and fear they might be trying to lead me astray. I read the Bible, and speak with my husband who has read about 20 different translations of the Bible.
 
It sounds more like your take on how Catholicism has failed you and you being led to the Orthodox Church?
Uh…no. I have to wonder why people here will not take a tesimony at face value?

The 60’s, and 70’s were a log time ago. I lived through it as a Catholic and I know how it was. I merely shared that with the people here.

I became Orthodox in 2005 for theological reasons. I had no motivation to leave a wonderful Byzantine Catholic parish with an outstanding priest. I wasn’t ignored, I felt connected and I was spiritually fed. I was very involved in the several choirs as well as the evangelism committee. I was discerning a call to the diaconate.

If I had it my way, I would have stayed right there, I had never been happier with a parish.
There are more people outside the Catholic Church who want to become part of the Community. From what i have read through confessions of their own, they’ve grown tired of the repetitious happy-clappy churches they have been accustomed to and the constant bickering of pastors over who correctly interprets Scripture.
This has nothing to do with me or my post.

Michael
 
Uh…no. I have to wonder why people here will not take a tesimony at face value?

The 60’s, and 70’s were a log time ago. I lived through it as a Catholic and I know how it was. I merely shared that with the people here.

I became Orthodox in 2005 for theological reasons. I had no motivation to leave a wonderful Byzantine Catholic parish with an outstanding priest. I wasn’t ignored, I felt connected and I was spiritually fed. I was very involved in the several choirs as well as the evangelism committee. I was discerning a call to the diaconate.

If I had it my way, I would have stayed right there, I had never been happier with a parish. This has nothing to do with me or my post.

Michael
Perhaps you can let us know which exact theological reasons led you to become Orthodox that you could not find in the Byzantine Catholic Church?
 
It sounds more like your take on how Catholicism has failed you and you being led to the Orthodox Church? There are more people outside the Catholic Church who want to become part of the Community. From what i have read through confessions of their own, they’ve grown tired of the repetitious happy-clappy churches they have been accustomed to and the constant bickering of pastors over who correctly interprets Scripture.

I have also had my share of visiting other churches when i was going through RCIA, just to make sure of myself. I have visited Protestant churches and even the Oriental and Orthodox churches. Both had their similar pro’s and con’s about them, but what ultimately led me to choose the Catholic Church was its strong foundation of Christ’s message and the teaching authority it holds. The Orthodox church came close, but it lacked One Voice over several issues.
It seems to me that this thread was for people to explain why they left the Catholic Church and not why people are trying to get in. I for one have great respect for all Christian churches. As far as the Catholic Church speak in one voice I personally disagree. You have different parishes saying different things as though they are different churches just like in Protestant churches. The other Apostiles had teaching authority such as Andrew the founder of the Eastern Church.
 
It seems to me that this thread was for people to explain why they left the Catholic Church and not why people are trying to get in. I for one have great respect for all Christian churches. As far as the Catholic Church speak in one voice I personally disagree. You have different parishes saying different things as though they are different churches just like in Protestant churches. The other Apostiles had teaching authority such as Andrew the founder of the Eastern Church.
How are they saying things differently? And don’t get me wrong - i am not trying to proselytize here. Merely wanting to know the true motives of people leaving the Church. I just gave my reasons for becoming Catholic, but i am not asking you to become one.
 
How are they saying things differently? And don’t get me wrong - i am not trying to proselytize here. Merely wanting to know the true motives of people leaving the Church. I just gave my reasons for becoming Catholic, but i am not asking you to become one.
I gave some of my reasons for leaving the Catholic Church on this post. I can go into more detail if that is not enough. I did not post to bash the Catholic Church, but I will be protective of all Christian Churches because in my travels I have found each one to have some of the truth. Catholic Church frustrates me because they call it a community. In my experience I never saw this, I found no support. Other Christian churches seem to me to be more supportive of the flock. The Catholic Church does not have a monopoly on the Holy Spirit.
 
** Catholic Church frustrates me because they call it a community. In my experience I never saw this, I found no support. Other Christian churches seem to me to be more supportive of the flock.**
Without addressing the other points you raise here, I wanted to say that I have observed this myself, mostly in the larger urban and suburban Latin parishes. ‘Community’ is often something of a misnomer when applied to a Latin Catholic parish. There are probably missions in remote places, or small towns, where this is not an issue but around Chicago where I live all the smaller parishes were scuttled or consolidated long ago.

These larger parishes are not any more a community than a large high school is a community. In such an environment one may be part of a small clique that serves as a pseudo-community, but doesn’t involve the greater portion of the population. Or one might be a complete loner.

In a large parish one may be totally anonymous. No one in particular is glad to see you walk in, and no one in particular misses you when you don’t show up. This is a major problem, it has become impossible to keep abreast of all the parishioners and their special needs. In a smaller parish, like a mission perhaps, everyone knows everyone else and when someone hasn’t been seen for a while there is a phone call from a friend, or even the priest. There will be emails, greeting cards and sincere letters posted in the mail. There may be a knock at the door from a good friend, gift in hand.

Even the strongest Christians at one time or another go through that dark night of the soul. They can become discouraged, they grapple with acedia and lethargy, they can have doubts. These are dangerous times when the devil can be very active.

No one wants to let their fellow travelers feel neglected, abandoned or uncared for at times like that.

Yet that is precisely what will happen when the parishioners have not forged strong ties to one another. In the early church the Christians were intimately close to one another, and it is no cliche’ to say “they’ll know we are Christians by our love” because they were just like that long ago.

We must not forget that we are saved in community, that is a paramount Catholic principle, we need to act like a community of like-minded Christians at all times. Sadly, that is extremely hard to do in a mondo-parish with multiple liturgies, and that does not address some of the other conditions that (if not actually making things a bit worse) are certainly not helping the situation. I cite anonymous confession and a large rotation of eucharistic ministers, which have had the effect of making the clergy even more remote from the congregation, and pews that keep the people corralled in like animals in stalls.

Finally there is very little time for real fellowship after the Mass, the parking lot has to be cleared out before the people coming for the next Mass start rolling in and snarling up the exits.

The people have by-and-large become so used to these conditions they have come to perceive it as normal.

Michael
 
Perhaps you can let us know which exact theological reasons led you to become Orthodox that you could not find in the Byzantine Catholic Church?
I know many Byzantine Catholics, some of whom agree with me that the doctrine of Papal Universal Jurisdiction and also Papal Infallibility is not historically supportable.

They choose to live with the dichotomy, I felt like a hypocrite. I tried very hard to believe those things, but I finally had to admit to myself that I was only pretending, it was sheer wishful thinking on my part. Imagine my shock, it was (for example) like discovering that deep inside I really did not love my spouse, or discovering that the earth was hollow or something equally as serious!

I do not believe in “Cafeteria Catholicism”. I do not respect it when I observe it in others, yet that is precisely what was proposed to me by some who were dismayed when I announced my leaving.

Concerning universal jurisdiction of the bishop of Rome, Vatican Council I, did state in very clear terms “…So, then, if anyone says that the Roman Pontiff has merely an office of supervision and guidance, and not the full and supreme power of jurisdiction over the whole Church, and this not only in matters of faith and morals, but also in those which concern the discipline and government of the Church dispersed throughout the whole world; or that he has only the principal part, but not the absolute fullness, of this supreme power; or that this power of his is not ordinary and immediate both over all and each of the Churches and over all and each of the pastors and faithful: let him be anathema.

And concerning the doctrine of Papal Infallibility that council also did state “…So then, should anyone, which God forbid, have the temerity to reject this definition of ours: let him be anathema.”

It is clear these clauses were addressed directly to me and people like me, who could not seem to bend their intellect around doctrine that was pretty clearly a lie from an historical perspective. It was as if the fathers of that council assumed an act of will on my part would be all that was necessary to change my mind.

Since I was considering the diaconate at the time, I felt that I should not and could not pursue Holy Orders and yet secretly or privately not actually affirm everything the church taught.

So I left for the church that I felt surely taught Truth. It was not as easy a decision as it sounds here. It was more than two years of agony and vacillating, while not actually receiving the Holy Gifts from the hands of any priest in the mean time.

There, I have told you more than I had originally intended to state here. I harbour no ill will toward the Catholic church, it was an environment that enabled me to grow as a Christian and I am grateful for that. I still have many family and friends who are in the Catholic church under the Pope and, as I have stated elsewhere, I raised three children (now adults) in the church and buried both my parents in the church. I am not anxious over their salvation because of their religious affiliation alone, it has served them well and the rest is up to them.

Michael
 
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