Former FBI Deputy Director Andrew McCabe fired

[LeafByNiggle]

PaulinVA:

My point is that it’s a low class move to fire someone 26 hours before they are set to retire. Sessions could have simply missed the deadline. Instead, he deemed that the punishment/fine for the alleged misdeeds was to strip McCabe of his pension. He did that without due process. He did that to keep his job.

Except when the someone clearly deserved to be fired, as is the case here. You think he should be rewarded with a million plus dollar, taxpayer funded golden handshake for his misdeeds? And it seems like an IG report and recommendation qualifies as “due process “.

It is not as “clear” as that. The details have not been released. But considering his 20+ years of dedicated service to our country, yes, he does deserve his pension.

 

[dvdjs]

No. There really isn’t equivalency here.

On the firing we have statements that are conclusive about the underlying rationale, which you yourself admit we really don’t know. That is a rush to judgement.

I don’t dispute that conclusions drawn about Trump are premature. His ungracious tweeting, however, helps propagate the impressions that the firing is personal and vindictive. When he politicizes law enforcement, he clouds the entire matter with the concern that people are acting to save their own jobs.

 

[Ridgerunner]

Will we? If there is substance to the charges, he shoudl have been prosecuted. The firing seems vindictive, and perhaps calculated to some message that is not entirely clear.

He might be prosecuted. We just don’t know at this point.

I think you mean the sin of lying intentionally, although that may be redundant. It is more than a little ironic for Sessions to be firing someone over “lying to federal investigators”; and with Sessions, Kushner etc., still in their position, it seems odd to term the sin unforgivable.

I’m just repeating what I heard; that the FBI will forgive a lot of things in its agents, but lying is not one of them. That, I understood, is because FBI agents testify all the time in court, and being caught in even a relatively minor lie could undercut an agent’s credibility for the rest of his tenure, making him useless. That’s really a problem all its own.

I am not aware of any lies told by Sessions or Kushner. Perhaps you could say what they were.

 

[dvdjs]

He might be prosecuted.

Fine. But there was nothing to be gined then in his gratuitous firinBoth g.

I am not aware of any lies told by Sessions or Kushner. Perhaps you could say what they were.

Really? Both lied directly and/or by omission regarding their contacts with Russia.

 

[Ridgerunner]

It is not as “clear” as that. The details have not been released. But considering his 20+ years of dedicated service to our country, yes, he does deserve his pension.

And maybe he deserves ten years in Leavenworth. AT this point, we don’t know what he deserved and what he didn’t. What we do know is that his termination was recommended by FBI career agents in the Office of Personnel Management of the FBI. Various accounts say it was for lying to federal investigators, though I don’t think we know that.

 

[Ridgerunner]

Really? Both lied directly and/or by omission regarding their contacts with Russia.

Be specific or don’t say it. I could say “Hillary Clinton sold out to the Russians for $150 mil” and you would challenge me for specifics.

 

[dvdjs]

Various accounts say it was for lying to federal investigators, though I don’t think we know that.

But you apparently think it bears repeating and repeating.

 

[dvdjs]

Be specific or don’t say it.

That was specific. What more do you want? And why?

 

[Ridgerunner]

But you apparently think it bears repeating and repeating.

Come on now. The left doesn’t yet have the ability to shut others’ mouths entirely, though I’m sure the desire is there. If someone says “he deserves his pension”, then one ought to be free to suggest reasons why those in charge might not have thought so.

 

[PaulinVA]

Just wondering. Say that McCabe is charged with what was in the ethics memo. First, if it was a crime, why wasn’t there a criminal referral to the US Attorney for the District?

Anyway, say there is a criminal referral, a trial, and he is found not guilty. So, what does that mean for last night’s cowardly action by the liar Sessions?

 

[Ridgerunner]

Anyway, say there is a criminal referral, a trial, and he is found not guilty. So, what does that mean for last night’s cowardly action by the liar Sessions?

Probably nothing. At the risk of getting jumped on by DVDJS for saying anything about the allegations against him as I understand them, if indeed he lied, it might or might not rise to the level of a criminal offense. Not all actions deserving termination are crimes. And not all crimes are prosecuted, either.

 

[dvdjs]

I could say “Hillary Clinton sold out to the Russians for $150 mil” and you would challenge me for specifics.

I would do that out of politeness. I know that the charge is false, and would be offering you an opportunity to reflect and withdraw the charge.

Come on now. The left doesn’t yet have the ability to shut others’ mouths

Always seeking to talk about others’s motives.

You may talk as much as you like. You may repeat allegations over and over again then retreat to - but we really don’t know.

And I may respond as much as I like pointing out that what ever it is you that you don;t really know , you sure like to talk about it at length.

 

[dvdjs]

I could say “Hillary Clinton sold out to the Russians for $150 mil” and you would challenge me for specifics.

I would give you an opportunity to reflect on the numerous times that this charges has been raised here and debunked, so that you might like to consider whether or not you really want ot go through this one more time, trying to defend the conspiracy nonsense.

I am not sure that we had ever discussed Kushner’s disclosures and Session’s testimony. The is abundant documentation on the internet. And it undercuts your theory that about that incidental errors or omissions that are corrected remain somehow “unforgivable”.

 

[Ridgerunner]

I would do that out of politeness. I know that the charge is false, and would be offering you an opportunity to reflect and withdraw the charge.

Ridgerunner:

Ha! I think others who have felt the sting of your tongue would agree with me that this is an unlikely motivation.

You may repeat allegations over and over again then retreat to - but we really don’t know.

“Retreat to”? If we don’t know something, we don’t. And they’re not my allegations anyway. But that doesn’t mean we can’t talk about it. Just because the left doesn’t like to allow others to speak, it hasn’t yet abolished the First Amendment. Not yet.

 

[dvdjs]

Ha! I think others who have felt the sting of your tongue would agree with me that this is an unlikely motivation.

Ha indeed. It is is better IMO and more polite to ask about what people mean, than assuming it and putting into others’ mouths. The “so you are saying”; “IOW”, etc. rhetoric In fact, some might take that latter approach as a personal insult.

hasn’t yet abolished the First Amendment.

Not only the ™left, but also you.

 

[Ridgerunner]

I am not sure that we had ever discussed Kushner’s disclosures and Session’s testimony. The is abundant documentation on the internet. And it undercuts your theory that about that incidental errors or omissions that are corrected remain somehow “unforgivable”.

In McCabe’s case, we’re talking about the FBI and the recommendation of FBI agents who are in that review group. The standards of the FBI might be very different from the ones you want to think Sessions or Kushner violated.

I do find it ironic that you’re okay with the criminal prosecutions of Flynn and Popadopoulus for “lying” to investigators, but just can’t stand it that your partisan McCabe, for what appears to be the same thing, is only fired.

 

[Ridgerunner]

Ha indeed. It is is better IMO and more polite to ask about what people mean, than assuming it and putting into others’ mouths. The “so you are saying”; “IOW”, etc. rhetoric In fact, some might take that latter approach as a personal insult.

No. I have seen others complain about it. I wouldn’t say it at all if I hadn’t seen it. Now, what you have to decide is whether you feel your manner is justified all the same. That’s a choice.

I’m okay with the left saying what it wants to say, though I do get tired of the occasional hatefulness and outright lying.

 

[dvdjs]

I do find it ironic that you’re okay with the criminal prosecutions of Flynn and Popadopoulus for “lying” to investigators, but just can’t stand it that your partisan McCabe, for what appears to be the same thing, is only fired.

What is so hard to understand?

I have proposed that if McCabe is thought to be guilty of a criminal offense he should be prosecuted. Then the facts will be open and subject to cross-examination. Now we have a firing , a day before retirement, without a disclosure of or examination of the facts. It seems gratuitous, vindicitve, and possibly obstructive.

You have made the case before in the context of Flynn that the FBI is just trying to catch them in an error to drop the hammer. Here again you talk of the “unforgivable” sin. I think that you are wrong to disparage the actions of LEO in this way. We have evidence that error that are corrected are not prosecuted; moreover there were clear suggestions the case of Flynn and Papadopolus that they were allowed to plead guilty to a lesser offence in return for cooperation in the ongoing investigation.

 

[dvdjs]

I’m okay with the left saying what it wants to say, though I do get tired of the occasional hatefulness and outright lying.

Here again, the ™left. Now, just who, exactly, are you accusing of hatefuness? Just who, exactly, are you accusing of outright lying?

 

[edtaylor51]

I sure didn’t have a pension vested when I was 49, and I still don’t.

I was fully vested at age 28. It wouldn’t have amounted to much, but the vesting schedule was only 5 years. What kind of pension are you working towards that isn’t vested by age 49, unless you job hop often?