Former FBI Deputy Director Andrew McCabe fired

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jagged said:
Yeah, I just stated it. It’s not a conspiracy theory. Trump’s campaign attempted to collude with the Russian government. You can read the emails because Trump released them.
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I must have missed it. Exactly what was the Trump campaign colluding to do and, most importantly, what crime was being committed?
 
jagged said:
Well, all there is so far are a bunch of convictions and Trump, Jr. attempting to collude with the Russian government. So, no, nothing there at all. But…
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You can correct me with a reliable source, but I don’t think anybody is convicted. At least not yet. I think Popadopoulus has pleaded guilty to lying to the FBI as has Flynn. But I’m not sure it’s going to stick to Flynn. If the judge in that case finds that the plea was obtained when the FBI was hiding exculpatory information from Flynn, he might refuse the plea and exclude the confession. Neither case is “over” until the judges accept the please and pronounce sentence. It is at least reported that somebody of consequence in the FBI says Flynn didn’t lie to them.

Trump Jr did agree to look at some information offered by a Russian. But that’s not illegal. So there really isn’t anything there with that one.

Of course it’s a war against Trump. In all my years, I have never seen anything like what’s going on now. Saying one doesn’t like Trump isn’t anything. Saying you and “Andy” have devised an “insurance policy” in case Trump is elected fairly begs for further investigation. And when you find out the people wanting the “insurance policy” played games with the Clinton investigation, you can’t ignore it.

But in a way, you’re right. It’s not truly a war against Trump. It’s much worse than that. It’s a civil war by non-lethal means between one part of the society and another.
 
Ridgerunner said:
Then why do you spend so much time working on it?
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What is he doing to destroy Trump? Criticism of politicians is just a normal part of political discourse. People criticized Obama for 8 years and he never was destroyed.
 
jagged said:
Yes, you really are out of touch. Don Jr. set up a meeting with a Russian agent who promised dirt on Hillary Clinton. That is, taking something of value from a foreign government. It’s against the law.
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No it’s not. Receipt of Information from foreign nationals is not prohibited. Foreign nationals | FEC
 
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Declaring war on Trump is not a crime. You know that. So having that as your “standard” is just cynical.

Trump Jr didn’t know who he was going to meet before he did. He was told it was someone with some information from Russia about Hillary. Not against the law at all. Turns out it was a Russian lobbyist who apparently is well known in DC.

While I have no idea whether “Andy” or Strzok or anybody else is going to get convicted of anything, if McCabe really did lie under oath or to the IG, that could get it there.
 
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dvdjs said:
Here is a nice summary of the story as it stands and analysis from lawfare
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This is what I’ve been saying…

We will refrain from speculating on the reason for the rush to fire McCabe before his retirement. But it is peculiar. Why, one wonders, could the Justice Department not have handled his misconduct—if there was misconduct—the way it usually does: by detailing it in the inspector general’s report and noting that the subject, who has since retired, would otherwise be subject to disciplinary action?
 
jagged said:
Don Jr thought she was an agent of the foreign government. Read the emails. That’s the difference.
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I have read the emails. They’re pretty vague, but suggest that the “person” was going to bring stuff that originated with the Russian government. Read them.

But even if he did think it was a Russian government person, Veselnitskaya was not a Russian government person and even if she was it still wouldn’t have been illegal.
 
To clear up a misconception RE: the Trump Tower meeting -

Coordinating or meeting with a foreign national might not be illegal for a Presidential campaign.

However, it is illegal to accept contributions from a foreign national. Opposition research is an in-kind contribution.

52 USC 30121: Contributions and donations by foreign nationals:

§30121. Contributions and donations by foreign nationals
(a) Prohibition
It shall be unlawful for-

(1) a foreign national, directly or indirectly, to make-

(A) a contribution or donation of money or other thing of value, or to make an express or implied promise to make a contribution or donation, in connection with a Federal, State, or local election;

(B) a contribution or donation to a committee of a political party; or

(C) an expenditure, independent expenditure, or disbursement for an electioneering communication (within the meaning of section 30104(f)(3) of this title); or

(2) a person to solicit, accept, or receive a contribution or donation described in subparagraph (A) or (B) of paragraph (1) from a foreign national.
 
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lmachine said:
A guilty plea is a conviction my man. And add Rick Gates to that list.
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No it isn’t. Read the law or ask a lawyer. It’s not a conviction until the judge accepts it and passes judgment.
And I’m not “your man”.
 
From the FEC website which I cited earlier:

“Generally, an individual (including a foreign national) may volunteer personal services to a federal candidate or federal political committee without making a contribution. The Act provides this volunteer “exemption” as long as the individual performing the service is not compensated by anyone…”

Now, nobody gave Veselnitskaya a nickel and nobody says anyone did. Of course, the DNC and Clinton did give money to Russians for the “dossier” information, “laundered” through the DNC’s law firm. But Strotz, McCabe and Mueller weren’t interested in looking into that. But likely someone will.
 
jagged said:
Well, let’s see:

“The Crown prosecutor of Russia met with his father Aras this morning and in their meeting offered to provide the Trump campaign with some official documents and information that would incriminate Hillary and her dealings with Russia and would be very useful to your father.”

Hmm, official documents from a Russian government agent. I would have to stretch to think they were from the Russian Government. That’s not vague at all.
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There’s no such thing as a “Crown prosecutor” of Russia, of course. So the “source” really didn’t know who he was dealing with, and I’m sure Trump Jr could tell that. But even if there was such a thing, it still would not have been illegal. It wouldn’t be if documents came from Putin himself. Read the regulations. You’ll see.

And then think about DNC and Hillary paying Russians for the “dossier” information. See a difference?
 
I’M GOING TO GO DRINK TULLAMORE DEW NOW WITH FRIENDS AND FAMILY. HAPPY ST. PATRICK’S DAY!
dvdjs said:
Why do you spend so much time trying to exculpate him even before the charges are known?
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'Cause he’s not charged with anything.
 
Just to clarify - soliciting an in-kind contribution from a foreign national is against the law. A foreign national making an in-kind contribution is against the law. Opposition research that isn’t paid for is an in-kind contribution.

Nobody has ever alleged that Natalia Veselnitskaya was going to volunteer to stuff envelopes for Trump campaign mailings or other such personal services.
 
So why weren’t the contents of the dossier not revealed before the election?

OTOH The stolen DNC emails by the Russians sure were released daily just before the election. Did Trump know about them prior to their release? If so, that is a coverup of illegal activity.

Or is Trump pleading ignorance of the law?
 
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