Former SDA Thinking of converting to Catholic

[po18guy]

John 6 teaches that the Eucharist is literally the Body and Blood of Christ–were it not, how could we eat His Flesh and drink His Blood as he insists we must do to receive life (Jn 6:48-58)? Further, were it merely symbolic, why does he not reassure those who leave that he didn’t mean literally eat His Flesh and Blood (6:52-58, 60-66)? Still, we who eat are not cannibals, as the disciples who departed feared–we eat the Body and Blood in the form of bread and wine. We trusted Jesus, and He did not ask of us more than we could bear.

For those who wrongly insist that the Eucharist is symbolic, most of them say that drinking blood was prohibited in the OT - therefore sinful. And it was. So, if the Eucharist is merely symbolic, why is Jesus commanding us to symbolically sin?

This is nonsensical.

 

[bmonk]

For those who wrongly insist that the Eucharist is symbolic, most of them say that drinking blood was prohibited in the OT - therefore sinful. And it was. So, if the Eucharist is merely symbolic, why is Jesus commanding us to symbolically sin?

This is nonsensical.

Yes, of course. The fuss over being cannibals (eating Jesus’ flesh) and drinking blood–the Catholic understanding sidesteps it. We can truly eat the Flesh and drink the Blood of the Son of Man, without eating actual human flesh (it is in the form of bread) or drinking human blood (form of wine).

Of course, since the prohibitions were made by God, they can be changed (or clarified) by God, and we believe Jesus is the Word of God, sent to teach us God’s will, so he can clarify what these Mosaic laws really mean.

 

[po18guy]

Yes, of course. The fuss over being cannibals (eating Jesus’ flesh) and drinking blood–the Catholic understanding sidesteps it. We can truly eat the Flesh and drink the Blood of the Son of Man, without eating actual human flesh (it is in the form of bread) or drinking human blood (form of wine).

Of course, since the prohibitions were made by God, they can be changed (or clarified) by God, and we believe Jesus is the Word of God, sent to teach us God’s will, so he can clarify what these Mosaic laws really mean.

I am wondering just where our Lord ever commanded us to do anything that had only symbolic meaning. I thought that He condemned the scribes, Pharisees and others who did things that were only symbolic and had no substance to them (Matthew 23). And, those today who trumpet the “symbolic” concept then go on to castigate the Church for having symbols (icons).

Nonsensical.

We are commanded to eat His Body and drink His Blood. Just as we know justification via the “shalls” and “shall nots” of the Decalogue, we also know via His clear commands in John 6, the last Gospel supper accounts and 1 Corinthians 10 & 11. It is the new and everlasting covenant. As Fr. Mitch Pacwa points out, the only reason that the New Testament is called the New Testament" - the only place in the scriptures where those two words are used in combination, is at the consecration in the upper room. The “New Testament” is the Holy Eucharist!

Matthew 26:28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which shall be shed for many unto remission of sins.

Mark 14:24 And he said to them: This is my blood of the new testament, which shall be shed for many.

Luke 22:20 In like manner the chalice also, after he had supped, saying: This is the chalice, the new testament in my blood, which shall be shed for you.

1 Corinthians 11:25 In like manner also the chalice, after he had supped, saying: This chalice is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as often as you shall drink, for the commemoration of me.

 

[Miriam1947]

Matthew 26:28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which shall be shed for many unto remission of sins.

Mark 14:24 And he said to them: This is my blood of the new testament, which shall be shed for many.

Luke 22:20 In like manner the chalice also, after he had supped, saying: This is the chalice, the new testament in my blood, which shall be shed for you.

1 Corinthians 11:25 In like manner also the chalice, after he had supped, saying: This chalice is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as often as you shall drink, for the commemoration of me.

Depends on translation.

Mine says "for this is the blood of the covenant, which will be shed . . . " NABRE

 

[po18guy]

Depends on translation.

Mine says "for this is the blood of the covenant, which will be shed . . . " NABRE

“Covenant” is a more accurate word, but in the first English translations of 400 years ago, it came out as “Testament”, so the 27 books will probably always be known as the New Testament. The collection of 27 books are called what they are because of the Holy Eucharist.

 

[chero23]

Yes, of course. The fuss over being cannibals (eating Jesus’ flesh) and drinking blood–the Catholic understanding sidesteps it. We can truly eat the Flesh and drink the Blood of the Son of Man, without eating actual human flesh (it is in the form of bread) or drinking human blood (form of wine).

Of course, since the prohibitions were made by God, they can be changed (or clarified) by God, and we believe Jesus is the Word of God, sent to teach us God’s will, so he can clarify what these Mosaic laws really mean.

Jesus himself did allot of clarifications. He would say, you guys were told … But I tell you… But with the bread and wine he didn’t clarify it bc he meant it as he said and it’s our job to believe it.

 

[bmonk]

I am wondering just where our Lord ever commanded us to do anything that had only symbolic meaning. I thought that He condemned the scribes, Pharisees and others who did things that were only symbolic and had no substance to them (Matthew 23). And, those today who trumpet the “symbolic” concept then go on to castigate the Church for having symbols (icons).

Nonsensical.

Good point. What is commanded is commanded because it is real. Even if the appearance is not always what it seems.

 

[po18guy]

Good point. What is commanded is commanded because it is real. Even if the appearance is not always what it seems.

For those who take the bible ever so literally, just what is so difficult about “Take, eat. This is my body”? Remembering that this occurred at the Passover!

As well, each and every fundamentalist that I have seen still has both eyes, both hands and both feet. Literal, huh?

 

[TheSeeker2014]

Hello. I was born and raised Seventh Day Adventist even attended SDA Academy. I started having doubts about my beliefs for a few years now and, have stopped attending the church, since then i have attended a few different churches trying to find the right one.

I have been having a problem with them because they all believe differently and even they have varying beliefs with in there own denominations.

I have always been afraid of the Catholic Church because of the Adventist beliefs that the Pope is the Anti Christ and all of the stories about them . But i have been searching for the true church, so i started looking into who started the churches that we have today and they all of course came out of the Catholic church.

I then wondered who started the Catholic Church. I found that it came out of Jesus’s ministry. I found Catholic answers and it has helped me to debunk some of my concerns about the church from being SDA . I have recently called my local Catholic Church to ask about learning more about the faith.

I admit that i am abit scared because i do have the SDA church beliefs in my head but I no longer believe most of them. I am very nervous about this step that i am taking but yet I hope that i will finally find the true church to belong to

Hi
I was just wanting to tell you about my finding of Catholic Answers too.
I was raised as a protestant in a Pentecostal church (which I never felt right there or understood or believed as they did). They too taught against the Catholic Church but not near as bad as the SDAs.
Either who I decided to leave and later attended the Church of God church down the road from my house. Growing up, and now, I was/am friends with an SDA. She has always told me her beliefs and why and mine to her just for learning experience and just to get an understanding of each other. I have been friends with her for 10+ years so far so I too have their ideals and reasoning in mind head as well. I am sure not as much as you, but I can relate and it can be scary when wanting to look into and actually learn from the Catholics themselves!
Either way, My grandma has always been a Catholic and my mom has for the past few years been complaining to me about why this and why that and can’t she see that she is doing wrong kind of stuff. All my life I have heard what non-Catholics had to say about Catholic’s beliefs and way of life/faith… and I decided one day,

You know what, many Catholics have been told many times the same things I have been told about how they were wrong and the Catholics are still so dead set on themselves being right, I think it is time to hear their view thoughts and beliefs about their own faith rather than from people who do not even practice or was taught/raised in it. I want to know why my grandma does the things she does and why she believes she is not wrong.

So I started learning online from CATHOLIC websites rather than protestant and SDA. And eventually I have come across catholic answers and I can honestly say that I have learned so much and even decided to pick up on some “Catholic things” myself. In all reality they are not near as bad as many others say… and I see why they do what they do and honestly I really do not see anything wrong with alot of what they do. (note I am still learning)
I think most of the Catholic negative talk is about misunderstandings and possible even past personal hurts. Or perhaps the persons are so dead set on their way is the right and only way.

Point being is do not be afraid to step out and learn and be open minded and if you want to learn about something you should learn from the people involved. They would know the most and they can explain why they thing such and such is not wrong and it could actually make more sense than what others are saying why it is wrong.

As of right now after a move I am currently not attending any church… I need to find one locally but it also does not help that I am chronically sick and working so it makes it hard to actually go out and do something other than work. However I have been reading and doing at home studies and such. Good luck on your learning!

 

[One_point]

Hi
I was just wanting to tell you about my finding of Catholic Answers too.
I was raised as a protestant in a Pentecostal church (which I never felt right there or understood or believed as they did). They too taught against the Catholic Church but not near as bad as the SDAs.
Either who I decided to leave and later attended the Church of God church down the road from my house. Growing up, and now, I was/am friends with an SDA. She has always told me her beliefs and why and mine to her just for learning experience and just to get an understanding of each other. I have been friends with her for 10+ years so far so I too have their ideals and reasoning in mind head as well. I am sure not as much as you, but I can relate and it can be scary when wanting to look into and actually learn from the Catholics themselves!
Either way, My grandma has always been a Catholic and my mom has for the past few years been complaining to me about why this and why that and can’t she see that she is doing wrong kind of stuff. All my life I have heard what non-Catholics had to say about Catholic’s beliefs and way of life/faith… and I decided one day,

You know what, many Catholics have been told many times the same things I have been told about how they were wrong and the Catholics are still so dead set on themselves being right, I think it is time to hear their view thoughts and beliefs about their own faith rather than from people who do not even practice or was taught/raised in it. I want to know why my grandma does the things she does and why she believes she is not wrong.

So I started learning online from CATHOLIC websites rather than protestant and SDA. And eventually I have come across catholic answers and I can honestly say that I have learned so much and even decided to pick up on some “Catholic things” myself. In all reality they are not near as bad as many others say… and I see why they do what they do and honestly I really do not see anything wrong with alot of what they do. (note I am still learning)
I think most of the Catholic negative talk is about misunderstandings and possible even past personal hurts. Or perhaps the persons are so dead set on their way is the right and only way.

Point being is do not be afraid to step out and learn and be open minded and if you want to learn about something you should learn from the people involved. They would know the most and they can explain why they thing such and such is not wrong and it could actually make more sense than what others are saying why it is wrong.

As of right now after a move I am currently not attending any church… I need to find one locally but it also does not help that I am chronically sick and working so it makes it hard to actually go out and do something other than work. However I have been reading and doing at home studies and such. Good luck on your learning!

Hello the seekr. I cannot tell you how happy reading your post has made me. thank you so much! I have been dealing with frustration lately because of encounters with such views as you described and I was so exasperated. I am glad to know there are non catholics like you. I will pray for your recovery. God bless you!

 

[chero23]

Hi
I was just wanting to tell you about my finding of Catholic Answers too.
I was raised as a protestant in a Pentecostal church (which I never felt right there or understood or believed as they did). They too taught against the Catholic Church but not near as bad as the SDAs.
Either who I decided to leave and later attended the Church of God church down the road from my house. Growing up, and now, I was/am friends with an SDA. She has always told me her beliefs and why and mine to her just for learning experience and just to get an understanding of each other. I have been friends with her for 10+ years so far so I too have their ideals and reasoning in mind head as well. I am sure not as much as you, but I can relate and it can be scary when wanting to look into and actually learn from the Catholics themselves!
Either way, My grandma has always been a Catholic and my mom has for the past few years been complaining to me about why this and why that and can’t she see that she is doing wrong kind of stuff. All my life I have heard what non-Catholics had to say about Catholic’s beliefs and way of life/faith… and I decided one day,

You know what, many Catholics have been told many times the same things I have been told about how they were wrong and the Catholics are still so dead set on themselves being right, I think it is time to hear their view thoughts and beliefs about their own faith rather than from people who do not even practice or was taught/raised in it. I want to know why my grandma does the things she does and why she believes she is not wrong.

So I started learning online from CATHOLIC websites rather than protestant and SDA. And eventually I have come across catholic answers and I can honestly say that I have learned so much and even decided to pick up on some “Catholic things” myself. In all reality they are not near as bad as many others say… and I see why they do what they do and honestly I really do not see anything wrong with alot of what they do. (note I am still learning)
I think most of the Catholic negative talk is about misunderstandings and possible even past personal hurts. Or perhaps the persons are so dead set on their way is the right and only way.

Point being is do not be afraid to step out and learn and be open minded and if you want to learn about something you should learn from the people involved. They would know the most and they can explain why they thing such and such is not wrong and it could actually make more sense than what others are saying why it is wrong.

As of right now after a move I am currently not attending any church… I need to find one locally but it also does not help that I am chronically sick and working so it makes it hard to actually go out and do something other than work. However I have been reading and doing at home studies and such. Good luck on your learning!

I was reading your post this morning and wanted to first of all wanted to wish you good riddance and that you get better. I will pray for you.

Second, thank you for actually going out and getting direct answers from the direct source like Catholic Answers.

Lastly, I know that you said your studying about some Catholic info. At the bottom of my post, you will find a link to a booklet that I made that I think will help.

 

[TheSeeker2014]

I was reading your post this morning and wanted to first of all wanted to wish you good riddance and that you get better. I will pray for you.

Second, thank you for actually going out and getting direct answers from the direct source like Catholic Answers.

Lastly, I know that you said your studying about some Catholic info. At the bottom of my post, you will find a link to a booklet that I made that I think will help.

Thank you I will read it through!

 

[po18guy]

Thank you I will read it through!

It is good to keep in mind that nearly all of the “Catholic things” that are complained about in protestant groups have also been practiced and believed for 2,000 years by the Eastern Orthodox Churches. They, and the Catholic, are the only two that trace all the way back to Christ via the twelve Apostles. Yet, not even the SDA rants and raves about those Eastern Christians - which have the same structure and Seven Sacraments that Christ instituted!

 

[TheSeeker2014]

It is good to keep in mind that nearly all of the “Catholic things” that are complained about in protestant groups have also been practiced and believed for 2,000 years by the Eastern Orthodox Churches. They, and the Catholic, are the only two that trace all the way back to Christ via the twelve Apostles. Yet, not even the SDA rants and raves about those Eastern Christians - which have the same structure and Seven Sacraments that Christ instituted!

What would exactly be the difference between them and the Catholics

 

[po18guy]

What would exactly be the difference between them and the Catholics

The obey their local Patriarch rather than the Bishop of Rome. They believe that the Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father through the Son, rather than from Father and Son. Other things as well, but their history, their structure, their Divine Liturgy and 90%+ of everything else parallels the Catholic Church. We pray for reunification. Yet, they are not even on the SDA/Baptist/Fundamentalist/Evangelical radar for condemnation. A very odd thing, that is, and not regarding the Orthodox.

 

[TheSeeker2014]

The obey their local Patriarch rather than the Bishop of Rome. They believe that the Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father through the Son, rather than from Father and Son. Other things as well, but their history, their structure, their Divine Liturgy and 90%+ of everything else parallels the Catholic Church. We pray for reunification. Yet, they are not even on the SDA/Baptist/Fundamentalist/Evangelical radar for condemnation. A very odd thing, that is, and not regarding the Orthodox.

Maybe that is why… they do not follow the Bishop of Rome. Do they believe in praying to saints and do they do the same things with Mary as the Catholics?.. maybe that is why they do not ‘condemn’ them

That or perhaps they forgot about them because their religion is based on the personal beliefs a person (founder) had and used and twisted scripture for justification of her views.
For a while I have felt that the SDA is ALMOST nothing but a religious bigotry group that is obsessed with what doesn’t matter such as what others are doing and believing and this and that means in Revelation. Do not get me wrong… knowing prophecy is important but Salvation and your relationship with Christ (trying to improve and get closer to Him) is way more important to focus on and have lectures/services on. I have been to their services before a few times… All they ever talk about is Revelation and Daniel and how these people are wrong and what will happen to them and what they are going to do to SDAs and how Catholics are evil and condemned ect ect ect… mark of the beast Pope is anti christ… everyone is condemned but them because they are the only “true” church following what Jesus actually taught and the apostles…
I am pretty sure Jesus taught against focusing on others wrongs and judging and worrying about the future…
However I would like to note from other Protestants, Alot of them consider SDAs a cult because of their obsession and their labor to have everyone believe exactly the same about everything and by holding the founder’s writings completely right…(and to question means you do not understand or you are viewing something wrong, rather than the chance that hey, these writings are obsessed with things that do not really matter in my relationship with Christ.)

Don’t get me wrong, I am sure there are alot of nice SDAs out there that are loving and I am not saying the people out there are bad… just what I have seen in what they teach and write… it doesn’t look good.

 

[po18guy]

Maybe that is why… they do not follow the Bishop of Rome. Do they believe in praying to saints and do they do the same things with Mary as the Catholics?.. maybe that is why they do not ‘condemn’ them

Actually, Mary has a more prominent role in the Orthodox Divine Liturgy than in the Catholic mass! Yes, the Orthodox pray to Saints and are, with a few exceptions, virtually identical in their basic practices and beliefs - they were unified with the Catholic Church “officially” until 1054, although relations had been strained for some time before that. Oh, there are differences (and not minor) that have grown over the centuries, but talks that are focused on reunification continue so as to achieve greater understanding.

What this shows is that virtually all anti-Catholicism (and silence regarding the orthodox) stems from bigotry, ignorance and yes, “old wives’ tales” that go back almost 500 years!

Here is an extremely important consideration: the German rebellion in the 16th century created what was essentially team sports. Competition. Rivalry. It was religious and political. A power struggle. Bad behavior all round. Yet, the rebellion essentially redefined Christianity to agree with European thinking at that time. That cannot be the truth, as Christ did not found His Church in 16th century Germany.

In fact, hatred of the Pope and the Catholic Church (due largely to bad behavior of a few popes and clergy) lead to such a profound hatred of the Church that Martin Luther’s partner (Philipp Melanchthon) and others went to the Orthodox Church with the hope of forming an alliance against the pope. What followed is not well known today. 6 years later and after 400 pages of written dialog, the bottom line is that the Orthdox, as much as they disliked the Pope, flatly rejected the “reformers.” The Orhtodox correctly stated that the reform had discarded the crucial elements of a “Church.” This article is written from a protestant perspective, but it gives a bit of detail regarding what the Orthodox thought. The reformers basically considered the Orthodox Church to be “too Catholic” for their taste. They had chosen a revolutionary path and could not/would not turn back. To do so would be an admission that Catholic (and Orthodox) teaching had been correct in the first place.

Now, protestants and Orthodox here will probably differ with these opinions, but the bottom line to both Catholic and Orthodox thinking is that the reformers threw the baby out with the dirty bath water. The true heroes and heroines are those who toughed it out and fought for reform from within the Catholic Church - the “counter-reformation.” They paid dearly, but they are Saints in heaven now. Those corrupt members of the Church who made their lives miserable are long forgotten.

For a while I have felt that the SDA is ALMOST nothing but a religious bigotry group that is obsessed with what doesn’t matter such as what others are doing and believing and this and that means in Revelation.

They hate those who differ with them as much as they love Christ. That does harm to Christianity.

Do not get me wrong… knowing prophecy is important but Salvation and your relationship with Christ (trying to improve and get closer to Him) is way more important to focus on and have lectures/services on.

The whole world knows what the bible says. But, what does it mean? Christ left Apostles to teach the truth and they passed that Church on. The SDA are unrelated to any of this. They are almost a parallel religion - except for their trinitarian belief and baptism.

I have been to their services before a few times… All they ever talk about is Revelation and Daniel and how these people are wrong and what will happen to them and what they are going to do to SDAs and how Catholics are evil and condemned ect ect ect… mark of the beast Pope is anti christ… everyone is condemned but them because they are the only “true” church following what Jesus actually taught and the apostles…

I thought that Christ said “Stop judging and YOU will not be judged”??? Sadly, they are quite cult-like in this manner. They are also profoundly wrong on so many things. Not a single one of their prophecies has come true. Zero. If even one fails, that is evidence of a false prophet!

I am pretty sure Jesus taught against focusing on others wrongs and judging and worrying about the future.

Precisely!

However I would like to note from other Protestants, Alot of them consider SDAs a cult because of their obsession and their labor to have everyone believe exactly the same about everything and by holding the founder’s writings completely right.

There is a surprising lattitude allowed in Catholic thinking - but it must be guided by revealed truth and remain within that boundary. In other words, we desire to do the same thing, but in different ways.

 

[po18guy]

Don’t get me wrong, I am sure there are alot of nice SDAs out there that are loving and I am not saying the people out there are bad… just what I have seen in what they teach and write… it doesn’t look good.

I have SDA in my extended family, and my chaplain at work was SDA. He and I got along famously, and he was shocked after what he had been taught about the Catholic Church. We prayed together and he even ended prayers with “in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit” That was huge!

However, the absolutely detestable falsehoods, distortions and flat-out lies about the Catholic faith that I hear from extended family are the devil’s work. But, you and I can see the devil’s influence in their cult-like behavior and hatred. They have isolated themselves from brotherhood with us!

Here at CAF, the Catholic Church is laid bare. The Holy Spirit has lead you here, and is asking that you test this faith to determine its truth. Challenge it. Examine it. Look at it with a skeptical eye.

The true Church is the one that is hard to join and easy to leave. False communions are easy to join and hard to leave.

 

[TheSeeker2014]

Here at CAF, the Catholic Church is laid bare. The Holy Spirit has lead you here, and is asking that you test this faith to determine its truth. Challenge it. Examine it. Look at it with a skeptical eye.

The true Church is the one that is hard to join and easy to leave. False communions are easy to join and hard to leave.

I believe so too. Plus I have always wondered “why” with Catholicism on alot of things. I am not sure if God has led me here to have me learn from Catholicism or to have me ‘join’. I am sure many here would like to say for me to ‘join’… Either case I know I am currently ‘homeless’ church wise right now. Because of being so far away from the Church of God I was attending and being chronically ill while working… no one has any idea how exhausting that is until they experience it. Hard to keep up with anything! But I am managing… dealt with this for years. Currently struggling a bit because of the changing seasons but mental health wise better
Point being there is always that chance God has led me here to show and teach and wants me to be a part of the Catholic Church… just currently learning and waiting for answers. I know my great aunt who is a nun would be happy to hear this.

I have always believed though despite what I have been told about Catholicism that the common members really are sincere in what they do and to Jesus… I have always seen that in ‘good’ Catholics.

 

[chero23]

I believe so too. Plus I have always wondered “why” with Catholicism on alot of things. I am not sure if God has led me here to have me learn from Catholicism or to have me ‘join’. I am sure many here would like to say for me to ‘join’… Either case I know I am currently ‘homeless’ church wise right now. Because of being so far away from the Church of God I was attending and being chronically ill while working… no one has any idea how exhausting that is until they experience it. Hard to keep up with anything! But I am managing… dealt with this for years. Currently struggling a bit because of the changing seasons but mental health wise better
Point being there is always that chance God has led me here to show and teach and wants me to be a part of the Catholic Church… just currently learning and waiting for answers. I know my great aunt who is a nun would be happy to hear this.

I have always believed though despite what I have been told about Catholicism that the common members really are sincere in what they do and to Jesus… I have always seen that in ‘good’ Catholics.

I have never understood why people look at non practicing Catholics as a source for getting their Catholic answers. You came to the the right source in Catholic Answers. I dont know if you heard Scott Hahn, Tim Staples, Steve Ray, Dr. Brant Pitre, these are amazing Catholic apologetics that will give you the right answer for Catholicism.