Founder of "Positive" Muslim TV Channel charged with beheading wife...

[Angels_Unaware]

Quit picking on the so-called “Dark Ages” (the preferred term is “Middle Ages”). I think if you look into their history you will find they were a lot more enlightened than modern people give them credit for, especially when compared with our benighted age.

And what do you mean the Catholic Church was in the Middle Ages? The Church’s teachings don’t radically change from age to age, so hopefully we’re still in the Middle Ages, otherwise our religion is bunk.

Torturing and killing in the name of religion= Dark Ages. (Sorry, Dark is the term I will use, since it is correct).

Honor Killing= Dark Ages.

We no longer engage in crusades or the practices of the Inquisition, hence, we have left those sociologically backwards practices behind.

 

[tomarin]

Torturing and killing in the name of religion= Dark Ages. (Sorry, Dark is the term I will use, since it is correct).

Honor Killing= Dark Ages.

We no longer engage in crusades or the practices of the Inquisition, hence, we have left those sociologically backwards practices behind.

No it is emphatically not correct; it’s a judgement-loaded term that no medieval scholar would use, and it tends to reinforce an impression that the Middle Ages were barbaric, which they were not. It also gives the impression that the modern world is more civilized, which is also a very debatable point, given all the horrors of the 20th century such as genocide, abortion, weapons of mass destruction, etc.

I think the Catholic view is that people are people no matter when they lived, which is to say they are very flawed (due to Original Sin) and unable to perfect themselves on their own, without God’s help. When the world turns away from God as the modern world largely has, it can only plunge deeper into darkness.

 

[Angels_Unaware]

No it is emphatically not correct; it’s a judgement-loaded term that no medieval scholar would use, and it tends to reinforce an impression that the Middle Ages were barbaric, which they were not. It also gives the impression that the modern world is more civilized, which is also a very debatable point, given all the horrors of the 20th century such as genocide, abortion, weapons of mass destruction, etc.

I think the Catholic view is that people are people no matter when they lived, which is to say they are very flawed (due to Original Sin) and unable to perfect themselves on their own, without God’s help. When the world turns away from God as the modern world largely has, it can only plunge deeper into darkness.

I don’t have any concern about trampling on the politically correct sensibilities of a Medieval Scholar whose worldview tells him that driving a car with a Hemmy and promulgating Global Warming is just as “barbaric” as the Maiden of Nuremburg.

Why don’t we all sit around and debate about the relativistic nature of “barbarism” while 200 more women are stoned to death in countries that ascribe to Dark Aged sociological conditions due to the inflexibility of their religion.

Yes, I’m making a judgment. Discontinuing torture and military conquest in the name of religion represents sociological progress that Muslims should emulate.

 

[tomarin]

I don’t have any concern about trampling on the politically correct sensibilities of a Medieval Scholar whose worldview tells him that driving a car with a Hemmy and promulgating Global Warming is just as “barbaric” as the Maiden of Nuremburg.

You’re trivializing what I’m saying. I’m not talking about global warming. I’m talking about abortion, euthanasia, gay marriage, genocide, et al. And this isn’t about being morally relativistic, it’s about being historically aware and not promoting erroneous stereotypes that ultimately undermine the Catholic faith.

But I won’t say any more out of respect for the topic of the thread. I do wish you well.

Why don’t we all sit around and debate about the relativistic nature of “barbarism” while 200 more women are stoned to death in countries that ascribe to Dark Aged sociological conditions due to the inflexibility of their religion.

 

[Feanor]

Torturing and killing in the name of religion= Dark Ages. (Sorry, Dark is the term I will use, since it is correct).

Honor Killing= Dark Ages.

We no longer engage in crusades or the practices of the Inquisition, hence, we have left those sociologically backwards practices behind.

On a totally unrelated note: Actually the Dark Ages preceeded the Middle Ages which are generally thought to have begun in 1066,

It’s the Bronze Age, Iron Age, Dark Age, Middle Age, Renaissance, Age of Enlightenment, Industrial Revolution. Then I don’t know what this is called. Maybe Post Modern?

The Dark Ages are really the Migration Period from about 350-1066 AD. I am a history buff of the Middle Ages so I couldn’t resist.

Back to our regularly scheduled program. . .

 

[Through_Him]

This thread should be moved to the secular news forum and I think it, the thread, is in poor taste anyways. Something worse even happened in our city and was not because of religion.

 

[Angels_Unaware]

On a totally unrelated note: Actually the Dark Ages preceeded the Middle Ages which are generally thought to have begun in 1066,

It’s the Bronze Age, Iron Age, Dark Age, Middle Age, Renaissance, Age of Enlightenment, Industrial Revolution. Then I don’t know what this is called. Maybe Post Modern?

The Dark Ages are really the Migration Period from about 350-1066 AD. I am a history buff of the Middle Ages so I couldn’t resist.

Back to our regularly scheduled program. . .

You’re right, that is off topic, but it is actually not the case that the term Dark Ages is used by all historians to imply the time after the fall of the Roman Empire up until 1066. The term “Dark Ages” is often used to refer to to the time before the Renassiance, which includes the period of the Medevial Inquisition in the late 12th century into the 13th century.

It is possible that now the term “Dark Ages” only refers to the period until until 1066 AD, but it is a fluid term that is used in a variety of historical contexts, and it CERTAINLY applies to social conditions in the year 2009 in some areas of Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, and Afghanistan.

That is the point, and it is ridiculous that the Muslim who responded to this thread agreed, but Christians want to argue about it.

 

[Angels_Unaware]

This thread should be moved to the secular news forum and I think it, the thread, is in poor taste anyways. Something worse even happened in our city and was not because of religion.

Except this WAS about religion. But I think you are right. We should be inclusive and politically correct and politely look the other way and pretend this is just another domestic violence murder.

Which is in worse taste, talking about the practice of dishonor killing occurring in the US by a man who has tauted himself as a moderate Muslim, or not talking about it and pretending it has nothing to do with extremist views?

I do not believe this represents the Muslim religion any more than the Inquistion represents Catholicism. I thought I made that clear. I see the problem as Fundamentalism and tribal traditions that are thousands of years old and that need to be discarded.

 

[Feanor]

You’re right, that is off topic, but it is actually not the case that the term Dark Ages is used by all historians to imply the time after the fall of the Roman Empire up until 1066. The term “Dark Ages” is often used to refer to to the time before the Renassiance, which includes the period of the Medevial Inquisition in the late 12th century into the 13th century.

It is possible that now the term “Dark Ages” only refers to the period until until 1066 AD, but it is a fluid term that is used in a variety of historical contexts, and it CERTAINLY applies to social conditions in the year 2009 in some areas of Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, and Afghanistan.

That is the point, and it is ridiculous that the Muslim who responded to this thread agreed, but Christians want to argue about it.

Oh I wasn’t making any point relative to this thread- just my thing. I study and collect high quality replicas of Medieval Arms and Armour. In that aspect the Dark Ages is viewed in the context of the Migration Period. The term Dark is sometimes used a bit to broadly for me.

In any case folks were getting beheaded in BOTH the Dark Ages and the Middle Ages. Heck the French did it until the 19th century.

I wish the muslim community would do a better job of decrying these atrocities as well.

I do not believe they are part and parcel of Islam but Islam as a whole needs some serious PR. I mean DARN!!

I wish we had some great spokespeople for Islam on this forum.

 

[Feanor]

So we have no virulent denouncements of the Muslim community here. Only vague sentiments and counter points. Come on give us some meat here.

This is what the world needs.

 

[Muslim_Woman]

In the name of Allah , Most Gracious, Most Merciful

Salaam/peace

The media has spent much time ridiculing the Catholic Church and other Christian churches, .

I don’t think any media bashed Jesus (peace be upon him) or holy Bible because of what some Catholics priests did . Imagine , if any single Imam committed the sin inside the holy Kaaba or at Prophet’s mosque , how media would have blamed Islam , Quran , Prophet Muhammed (pbuh).

Anyway , God told Muslim husbands to be kind to wives , overlook her faults & love her because of her other good quality etc etc . If u want , I can post those verses in details.

 

[redhen]

Which is in worse taste, talking about the practice of dishonor killing occurring in the US by a man who has tauted himself as a moderate Muslim, or not talking about it and pretending it has nothing to do with extremist views?

jihadwatch.org/

 

[Muslim_Woman]

In the name of Allah , Most Gracious, Most Merciful

Salaam/peace

verses from holy Quran:

O ye who believe!

Ye are forbidden to inherit women against their will. Nor should ye treat them with harshness, that ye may take away part of the dower ye have given them,-except where they have been guilty of open lewdness; on the contrary live with them on a footing of kindness and equity.

**
If ye take a dislike to them it may be that ye dislike a thing, and Allah brings about through it a great deal of good.**

(An-Nisa ; Chapter Women , verse 19; 4:19)

The believing men and women, are associates and helpers of each other. They (collaborate) to promote all that is beneficial and discourage all that is evil; to establish prayers and give alms, and to obey Allah and his Messenger. Those are the people whom Allah would grant mercy. Indeed Allah is Mighty and Wise.

(Al-Taubah : Repentance ; 9:71
few useful links & articles : before bashing Islam & Muslims , please read those first , thanks

In short , beheading wife or innocent civilians is not allowed in Islam. Even in the war , urarmed civilians must not be killed.

Beheading Civilians… Islamic?

Myoung - Korea (South)

I realized that Muslims are much brutal. How can Muslims cut off civilians’ necks like cutting off animals and why those Muslims shout “Allah” when they cut off neck? Is it really a great sacrifice for Allah?

Jasser Auda:…Since you are from South Korea, I would like to start by condoling you and your nation for the horrific tragedy that happened to your citizen in Iraq

…these civilians were clearly not fighters. The Prophet of Islam, Muhammad (peace be upon him), also forbade his Companions during their battles from attacking anybody who is not armed. And when he (peace be upon him) saw a woman from the enemy, who did not look like a fighter, lying dead in the middle of a battleground, he was enraged and said in anger to his own Companions, “Why was she killed? She was not a fighter!”

readingislam.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1123996016596&pagename=IslamOnline-English-AAbout_Islam/AskAboutIslamE/AskAboutIslamE

Women’s Rights in Islam

Islam, Culture and Women

by Ruqaiyyah Waris Maqsood ( our UK revert sis )

How can anyone justify Islam’s treatment of women, when it imprisons Afghans under blue shuttlecock burqas and makes Pakistani girls marry strangers against their will?

How can you respect a religion that forces women into polygamous marriages, mutilates their genitals, forbids them to drive cars and subjects them to the humiliation of “instant” divorce? In fact, none of these practices are Islamic at all.
[More]

islamfortoday.com/women.htm#Rights

 

[Gottle_of_Geer]

It is an indication of a movement or perversion of a belief system that is wide ranging.

Admitted - but see below…​

Beheading is not an isolated incident in Islamic culture… in the name of God no less… If there is no condemnation then it is even worse it indicates that it is either condoned or tolerated…

Could this type of argument not be used against Christianity ? If so, & if Christianity is not evil even so, maybe Islam is not evil either. Evils can be wide-ranging, & frequent, & long-lasting, without being universal. So-called “honour killings” happen every so often in the UK; revolting as they undoubtedly are, they do not necessarily show that Islam is bad in all respects, or places, or times. Are all Catholics to be condemned because of Santeria or the Mafia ? Those are both alive, as much so as the practice of “honour killings” in Islam. There may be some danger of lumping all Muslims together, even though there are many divisions - not all are Sunnis, & what only Sunnis do or believe can’t be attributed to Shi’ites.​

When Muslims do X or Y, is it because they are Muslims, or, for some reason not connected - whether necessarily, or at all - with their religious identity ? A Catholic I read who wrote in the '60s made this point about Catholics - that Catholics could not be identified solely by their religious profession: Catholics are Catholics - but also a lot of other things: citizens, voters, employees, members of families, etc. Catholics at a football game don’t go there because they are Catholics, any more than their being Catholic is the reason they travel by car or rail: so not everything about Catholics can be accounted for by being Catholic. If that observation is a fair one about Catholics (& surely it is ?), why can’t it be applied to others; such as Muslims ? Even though the two religions are different in significant ways, are they so different that everything about Muslims can be accounted for by leaving out everything about Muslims, except their being Muslim ?

 

[Jay53]

If that observation is a fair one about Catholics (& surely it is ?), **why can’t it be applied to others; such as Muslims **? Even though the two religions are different in significant ways, are they so different that everything about Muslims can be accounted for by leaving out everything about Muslims, except their being Muslim ?​

Because Muslims themselves claim that Islam is a complete way of life - it controls all of their life - their eating, sleeping, praying etc. They are the ones that define themselves that way.

 

[Randy_Carson]

When any non-Muslim kills wife , media don’t relate the murder with religion but when a culprit is a Muslim , media relate the crime with Islam.

Perhaps the following questions will help explain why this is the case:

1. In 1972 at the Munich Olympics, Jewish athletes were kidnapped and massacred by:
   a. Olga Corbitt
   b. Sitting Bull
   c. Arnold Schwartzeneger
   d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40
2. In 1979, the U.S. embassy in Iran was taken over by:
   a. Lost Norwegians
   b. Elvis
   c. A tour bus full of 80-year-old women
   d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40
3. During the 1980’s, a number of Americans were kidnapped in Lebanon by:
   a. John Dillinger
   b. The King of Sweden
   c. The Boy Scouts
   d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40
4. In 1983, the U.S. Marine barracks in Beirut was blown up by:
   a. A pizza delivery boy
   b. Pee Wee Herman
   c. Geraldo Rivera
   d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40
5. In 1985, the cruise ship Achille Lauro was hijacked and a 70-year old American passenger was murdered and thrown overboard by:
   a. The Smurfs
   b. Davy Jones
   c. The Little Mermaid
   d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40
6. In 1985, TWA flight 847 was hijacked at Athens, and a U.S. Navy diver was murdered by:
   a. Captain Kid
   b. Charles Lindberg
   c. Mother Teresa
   d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40
7. In 1988, Pan Am Flight 103 was bombed by:
   a. Scooby Doo
   b. The Tooth Fairy
   c. Butch Cassidy and The Sundance Kid
   d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40
8. In 1993, the World Trade Center was bombed the first time by:
   a. Richard Simmons
   b. Grandma Moses
   c. Michael Jordan
   d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40
9. In 1998, the U.S. embassies in Kenya and Tanzania were bombed by:
   a. Mr. Rogers
   b. Hillary, to distract attention from Wild Bill’ s women problems
   c. The World Wrestling Federation
   d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40
10. On 9/11/01, four airliners were hijacked and destroyed and thousands of people were killed by:
    a. Bugs Bunny, Wiley E. Coyote, Daffy Duck and Elmer Fudd
    b. The Supreme Court of Florida
    c. Mr. Bean
    d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40
11. In 2002, the United States began fighting a war in Afghanistan against:
    a. Enron
    b. The Lutheran Church
    c. The NFL
    d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40
12. In 2002, reporter Daniel Pearl was kidnapped and murdered by:
    a. Bonny and Clyde
    b. Captain Kangaroo
    c. Billy Graham
    d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40

Did you have any trouble answering every question correctly?

Yes, non-Muslims do horrible things and no one connects these acts with a specific religion. Yes, Muslims commit terrible acts that have nothing to do with Islam.

But, gee, a lot of them do.

 

[chrisb]

asalamulakum Muslim_Woman,

Is there anything in Hadith which might provide someone a reason to argue that killing in the defense of one’s honor is a virtuous act for a Muslim?

Just Curious.

 

[Muslimah727]

Yeah that’s why Bush attacked several countries in the name of God.I believe he is a christian as well.

To be fair, honor killings are more of an Arabic thing than Muslim doctrine as they predate Muhammad. And they were done in Rome as well. But unlike Christianity, which put an end to that kind of murder in Europe, Islam is unloving and wicked, and so it encourages rather than discourages the wicked practices of the cultures it ruins.

 

[Muslimah727]

Obviously you and this CHRISSE chick have no idea as to what you are talking about. Please do your research before you decide to engage in pluralistic dialogue.

Yes the teachings of islam did. Decapitation, abuse of women are just a few teachings from your prophet and his quran.

Wow how “positive” can this guy be. Way too “positive”

 

[Reuben_J]

Yeah that’s why Bush attacked several countries in the name of God.I believe he is a christian as well.

Personally I believe President Bush was tring to finish off what his father did not.

His country was attacked, which was never done before, it was a big shock to the Americans. He had to find a scapegoat for the war but he needed to destroy a country he percieved to be the enemy. Not all Americans agreed with him though and that’s why his party lost the recent Presidential election.

He is a Christian.