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Marie5890
Guest
Father Corapi is NOT a diocesian priest. This has nothing to do with the diocese.
Fr. Corapi placed on Administrative Leave Following Accusations
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Marie5890
Guest
As someone who has several members in my family who daily deal with staying clean, I know exactly what you mean and you are right.
Thanks for the gentle reminder of the serious battle any drug addict or alcoholic who is in recovery has to deal with DAILY. It’s never really “behind you”. It’s always right there beside you trying to make you a slave again
C
ChadS
Guest
You can squander that grace and allow temptation to set in, you can think that you are invincible because all those people are praying for you. You can allow temptations to overcome the grace you’ve been given. It only takes one sin to remove you from a state of grace. As Havard has said this sort of thinking is hubris.
ChadS
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pnewton
Guest
I do not, which is why I object to judging anyone guilty at this time, including the SOLT superiors an Fr. Corapi. Fame and charism should not be need for a priest to be given the benefit of the doubt, whether it be Fr. Corapi for this allegation or his superior for his action.It’s nice to see that people support the guilty-till-proven-innocent platform.
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qui_est_ce
Guest
There are some on this thread who seem to believe in OSAS.
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anthony022071
Guest
A person who is continually praying the rosary and adoring the Eucharist (which are the most powerful means for receiving grace) and preaching the gospel cannot be squandering God’s help so as to commit mortal sins. I don’t believe that Father Corapi is strong in holiness by his own power,but by the abundant spiritual help he receives from God. Abundant grace suppresses temptations to sin. It does not take only one sin to remove a person from a state of grace,unless it is a mortal sin. But if a person is in a state of grace,then for that reason he would resist any temptation to commit a mortal sin. Being in a state of grace is a permanent condition.
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qui_est_ce
Guest
That’s not Catholic theology.
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anthony022071
Guest
I just believe in the power of God and prayer to help us to resist mortal sin.
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Marie5890
Guest
Help? yes. Prevent? No. All still have free will.
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anthony022071
Guest
newadvent.org/cathen/06701a.htm
The nature of sanctifying grace
The real nature of sanctifying grace is, by reason of its direct invisibility, veiled in mystery, so that we can learn its nature better by a study of its formal operations in the soul than by a study of the grace itself. Indissolubly linked to the nature of this grace and to its formal operations are other manifestations of grace which are referable not to any intrinsic necessity but to the goodness of God; accordingly three questions present themselves for consideration:
Code:
(a) The inner nature of sanctifying grace.
(b) Its formal operations.
(c) Its supernatural retinue.- As we have seen that sanctifying grace designates a grace producing a permanent condition, it follows that it must not be confounded with a particular actual grace nor with a series of actual graces, as some ante-Tridentine theologians seem to have held. This view is confirmed by the fact that the grace imparted to children in baptism does not differ essentially from the sanctifying grace imparted to adults, an opinion which was not considered as altogether certain under Pope Innocent III (1201), was regarded as having a high degree of probability by Pope Clement V (1311), and was defined as certain by the Council of Trent (Sess. V, can. iii-v). Baptized infants cannot be justified by the use of actual grace, but only by a grace which effects or produces a certain condition in the recipient. Is this grace of condition or state, as Peter Lombard (Sent., I, dist. xvii, 18) held, identical with the Holy Spirit, whom we may call the permanent, uncreated grace (gratia increata)? It is quite impossible. For the person of the Holy Ghost cannot be poured out into our hearts (Romans 5:5), nor does it cleave to the soul as inherent justice (Trent, sess. VI, can. xi), nor can it be increased by good works (loc. cit., can. xxiv), and all this is apart from the fact that the justifying grace in Holy Writ is expressly termed a “gift [or grace] of the Holy Ghost” (Acts 2:38; 10:45), and as the abiding seed of God (1 John 3:9). From this it follows that the grace must be as distinct from the Holy Ghost as the gift from the giver and the seed from the sower; consequently the Holy Spirit is our holiness, not by the holiness by which He Himself is holy, but by that holiness by which He makes us holy. He is not, therefore, the causa formalis, but merely the causa efficiens, of our holiness.
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anthony022071
Guest
If we are in a state of grace,our free will is being helped by God and is conformed to his will.
How can a person be conformed to God’s will and yet will to commit a mortal sin? Which of the saints made a habit of committing mortal sins after they had attained a state of grace?
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Marie5890
Guest
(Speaking generally here and not about anyone in particular)
Venial sins can slowly chip away at sanctify grace. Little by little. Satan is a master at knowing where our weaknesses are and how to exploit them.
Attitudes of pride, arrogance, vanity, self-righteousness are dangerous and can sneak up on us.
Infact, I loved Fr Mitch Pacwa’s homily yesterday (Tues) on this very topic (based on yesterday’s readings). I recommend highly.
(I believe EWTN has a You Tube page where they post the daily homilies)
Venial sins can slowly chip away at sanctify grace. Little by little. Satan is a master at knowing where our weaknesses are and how to exploit them.
Attitudes of pride, arrogance, vanity, self-righteousness are dangerous and can sneak up on us.
Infact, I loved Fr Mitch Pacwa’s homily yesterday (Tues) on this very topic (based on yesterday’s readings). I recommend highly.
(I believe EWTN has a You Tube page where they post the daily homilies)
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Havard
Guest
Anthony, I notice you copied and pasted from the Catholic Encyclopedia on Sanctifying Grace, but chose to omit the part of the article that discusses uncertainty.
Specifically parts such as:
Specifically parts such as:
and
and the furthest it goes in any comfort of whether one is in a state of grace is
Bold/Italics mine, for emphasis.
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anthony022071
Guest
I wasn’t arguing against uncertainty of justification or salvation. That has to do with the fact that we are not finally justified and saved until after we die,not the question of how powerful prayer and grace can be in keeping us from sin. I’m saying that it is hardly possible that a person who is sustained by God by constantly praying the rosary and adoring the Eucharist and by the continual prayers of thousands of faithful Catholics will be committing mortal sins. Otherwise,prayer and God’s grace would not be powerful enough to overcome temptation and save us.
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ac_claire
Guest
Just given Fr. Corapi’s release, which is the only thing we have that goes into ANY kind of details of the allegations, I have to say that your comment above is, IMO, a *huge *speculative leap. As far as we know the accusations don’t seem to be alleging anything like your scenario. He only said that it was a 3-page letter accusing him of everything from drug addiction to sex with adult women.
Yeah, this. Totally agree.
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trials
Guest
I have prayed so hard for Fr. Corapi in the past because he was so instrumental in my reconversion to the faith.
However, as many posters here have acknowledged, he is a real target for Satan, and the fact that his preaching did get to such a large audience and that he achieved this “celebrity” status (I believe this was not his intention, and more the side-effect of his effective preaching), means that if he should ever fall, the devil knows this would have a massive effect in both the Church and “the world”.
Catholics who were uncomfortable with the Truth he proclaimed will be able to say “see, I knew there was something dodgey about him from the start”, while the secular world will have a field day with headlines if this is proven to be true, “renowned Catholic priest’s dramatic fall from grace”.
I know as an earlier poster here commented he was a “living saint” - ok, so it’s technically impossible, but in all honesty, when he gave many of his earlier talks, such as his series on the Catechism, he really did exude sainthood. He had a very prayerful demeanour.
The fact that his programmes have been pulled is sad, and another triumph for Satan, since this prevents other souls from hearing his preaching and perhaps being converted, regardless of whether or not these accusations are true. It also makes me think of Thomas Merton, the Trappist monk whose got his own kind of celebrity status through his writings, especially “Seven Storey Mountain” which is said to have led to many people taking up a monastic vocation. However, in his later years, his writings became more and more influenced by Eastern religions, and he ended up falling in love with a nurse during a stay in hospital. He was eventually reconciled with his Order and renewed his monastic vows, but still the damage was done. People always seem to approach his works with a more cautious attitude now, as in, his earlier writings are brilliant, but ignore his later writings. I hope this isn’t to be the case with Fr. Corapi.
Praying for all involved.
However, as many posters here have acknowledged, he is a real target for Satan, and the fact that his preaching did get to such a large audience and that he achieved this “celebrity” status (I believe this was not his intention, and more the side-effect of his effective preaching), means that if he should ever fall, the devil knows this would have a massive effect in both the Church and “the world”.
Catholics who were uncomfortable with the Truth he proclaimed will be able to say “see, I knew there was something dodgey about him from the start”, while the secular world will have a field day with headlines if this is proven to be true, “renowned Catholic priest’s dramatic fall from grace”.
I know as an earlier poster here commented he was a “living saint” - ok, so it’s technically impossible, but in all honesty, when he gave many of his earlier talks, such as his series on the Catechism, he really did exude sainthood. He had a very prayerful demeanour.
The fact that his programmes have been pulled is sad, and another triumph for Satan, since this prevents other souls from hearing his preaching and perhaps being converted, regardless of whether or not these accusations are true. It also makes me think of Thomas Merton, the Trappist monk whose got his own kind of celebrity status through his writings, especially “Seven Storey Mountain” which is said to have led to many people taking up a monastic vocation. However, in his later years, his writings became more and more influenced by Eastern religions, and he ended up falling in love with a nurse during a stay in hospital. He was eventually reconciled with his Order and renewed his monastic vows, but still the damage was done. People always seem to approach his works with a more cautious attitude now, as in, his earlier writings are brilliant, but ignore his later writings. I hope this isn’t to be the case with Fr. Corapi.
Praying for all involved.
Mary_Gail_36
New member
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qui_est_ce
Guest
They are powerful enough to overcome temptation and save us. The point is, we have to submit to the prayer and graces. [BIBLEDRB]Col 1:24[/BIBLEDRB]
Remember Jesus died for “many.” He died for all, but not all will cooperate with his saving grace. Judas and Peter come to mind.
I still think what you are preaching is dangerously close to OSAS.
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MusicforMovies
Guest
As awful as this all is - there is a procedure that must be followed.
In the meantime my prayers are with Fr. Corapi, the accuser, and all involved.
I have known a priest that was rightfully accused, and another one that was wrongfully accused.
The latter was later restored to his priestly ministries, but he had a very trying ordeal before that happened.
Pray, pray, pray.
In the meantime my prayers are with Fr. Corapi, the accuser, and all involved.
I have known a priest that was rightfully accused, and another one that was wrongfully accused.
The latter was later restored to his priestly ministries, but he had a very trying ordeal before that happened.
Pray, pray, pray.
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anthony022071
Guest
Merton was not firmly rooted in the truth of Catholic doctrine in the first place. He was more interested in the monastic ideal of attaining perfect detachment and in finding God within himself than in truth. His more orthodox writings do always not ring with true faith and conviction. He accepted Catholic doctrines as tradition but not necessarily as being the fullness of truth,so he felt free to bring in Eastern traditional ideas as if they were equally true. He was inclined toward the apophatic or negative way to God,which undermines the true doctrines of the Church,which are based upon revelation and reason.
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