Fr. Corapi Responds to Some of His Order's Charges

  • Thread starter Thread starter jwinch2
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
I see so much confusion going on on his facebook page that it makes me sick. For example.

someone will say.

“Father Corapi, Now is the time to preach by example.
You told us: “Act like the saints; they are the ones who knew how to live”.
Great Saints have advised to very OBEDIENT with the Superiors (Padre Pio, St. Faustina, St. Bernadette Soubirous, Blessed Mother Teresa, St. Maximilian Kolbe, St. Jose Maria Escriva, St. Ignatius, St. John of the Cross, St. Thomas Aquinas , St. Teresa of Avila, Catherine of Siene, Blessed John Paul II and many more)
Father Corapi We need you, we love you, Please COME BACK to Our Holy Mother Catholic Church.”

and yet someone will say.

“Fr. Corapi is like St. John of the Cross who had the right to not obey immoral orders given by a superior. Blind obedience is not, never has been, Catholic.”
This is a cliche invented by laymen and clerics who wanted to find a “legal” way to disobey.

The Spiritual Masters have always said that one may never obey a command to sin. Therefore, it is pretty obvious that obedience is not blind. It requires that you ask the question, “Is this a sin?”

The Spiritual Masters also said, that if the person in legitimate authority asks you to do what may seem foolish or useless, if it’s not a sin, you must obey. They never made any allowances for, “Oh but it can lead me to sin.” That’s only speculation. Everything in life can lead us to sin, even receiving the Eucharist. I may feel a moment of spiritual pride; therefore, I should not receive it. That’s silly.

I keep saying this, but no one takes me seriously. If Catholics want to understand what the Church truly teaches about obedience, they need to read the Rule of St. Benedict. Catholic teaching on obedience takes its lead from the Rule of St. Benedict. Of course, St. Benedict simply applies what is to be found in Scripture.

I think this is why so many priests and religious come through here and disappear. Once in a while, a little suggestion like this can be met with, “Oh, that’s a good idea. I’ll thik I’ll read Benedict’s Rule,” instead of plowing on and on without educating oneself to what obedience and other things mean.

I’m not asking you to believe me. I’m inviting you to read the Master of Obedience, Benedict himself.
Besides Catholics being confused on this, I see a split going on over calling SOLT a lair and calling Corapi a liar.
Calling people names is a violation of charity and a violation of justice. Those who do so are doing something that is sinful.

I go back to the same old point. Don’t be afraid of studying the masters: Benedict, Basil, Augustine, Francis, Romauld and Albert. These men defined, once and for all, the teachings of the Church on how to handle these situations. You will not find it in Aquinas. He was never a superior and did not deal with this. You willl not find it in other Doctors, because they had no need to re-invent the wheel.

The masters teach us to speak objectively and coldly.

Whether you’re a lay person, a religious or a secular member of an apostolic society, such as the SOLT, you must follow the Church. The Church will stand by the highest ranking person to speak, until the contrary is proven.

If we don’t do this, we have chaos. We have to acknowledge the rights of authority. This does not mean that authority has been fed all of the facts. It means that authority has the right and obligation to make a good faith judgment based on what it has. The superiors never claimed that they went on a fishing trip with Jesus where he laid it all out for them. They are saying, “This is what we have and how we got it. Based on this, this is our conclusion.”

Calling either the SOLT or Father a liar is a sin against charity and against justice. Just do what the Masters taught us to do. State what has happened and stop passing a judgment on things.

The Church grants the superior absolute power over the individuals and the properties of his community.

**The superiors have always a power of private or domestic order, called dominative, which permits them to command their subjects, and to administer property according to the rules of the institute; and the first superior of the convent, by appealing to the vow or distinctly making known his intention, can command under pain of mortal sin. Moreover, if they be priests, the principal superiors of religious orders possess the double jurisdiction of the forum internum and the forum externum, which makes them the ordinary prelates of their subordinates. **

Let us not take lightly the power and authority of male religious superiors. They have quite a bit of power. That’s why bishops back off when dealing with religious. We don’t go around calling them lyers, because it’s a sin against justice. In justice, they have a right to exercise power over individuals. As long as they use whatever information they have on hand and do so in good faith, they have a right to proceed. To call them liers is as if we were denying them the right over the individual. We cannot deny superiors their rights. They can forfeit their rights, if it is proven that they have abused those rights. That’s a separate trial.

Please, go back and read what the Masters have to say on obedience, the authority of superiors and what the Church allows them to do and requires that they do. Also read, the commentaries on Canon Law on the right to appeal. There is that right, unless the pope says that in his opinion you don’t have that right. Then the discussion is over.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
 
So did she speak of him in glowing terms after she left Santa Cruz Media too …
QUOTEI see so much confusion going on on his facebook page that it makes me sick. For example.
someone will say /QUOTE
Fanaticism is on both sides.
QUOTEISorry, but priests don’t just “resign”. The priesthood is not just a club that you join. Being a priest is not like a secular job /QUOTE
Very right. But they do get a dispensation by going through the proper church channel. I don’t think heroic white martyrdom is necessarily required of Fr. Corapi. Till then, if one truly believe in the permanent imprint of priestly character, let’s show some respect for the man who afterall was (and still is) a prophetic voice for the church until recently accused. History will attest for many reactionary renewal movements when the church was spiritually bankrupt. Don’t cast the first stone. The jury (literally - since Fr. Corapi has demanded a trial by jury) is still out.
 
Yes I remember that part well enough.

So at the point in the diaconal ordination where the candidate kneels before the bishop and places his hands between those of the bishop and makes his promise of obedience is skipped in the case of the religious?

And thanks for the other info as well!

Sorry all did not mean to derail the thread just wanted to understand this point.

Fr. Corapi in in my daily prayer.
I have seen some rather clever bishops ordaining members of religious communities or societies. They will word the question something like this, “Do you promise obedience to YOUR superior and his successors?” This way they keep the promise in the rite and no one is the wiser in the change of the wording.
The fact that there are three different types of vows/promises suggests a greater or lesser degree of authority or binding to the promises/vows being made. If they are binding in the same manner, there would seem to be no need for three different types. Can you provide some detail on this?

Thanks for all of the information.
There are, but not to the naked eye. Just a few examples.

OBEDIENCE

Solemn vow: The Church believes that your practice obedience far surpasses that of any other Christian. She calls it solemn. She releases you from the authority of a bishop, except as is expected of any person who lives in his diocese.

Simple vow: The practice of obedience is still beyond that of anything that the Church expects of the faithful, but given the things that your community asks you to obey, the Church does not deem it to be on the same level as religious orders. These are always congregations.

Promise: The practice of obedience is still beyond what is epxpected of the ordinary Catholic, but the commitment is between you and the society. The Church approves of the commitment. However, the society can release you of it.

Solemn vows are always perpetual. Simple vows can be either perpetual or for a fixed amount of years and then you renew them or you make them perpetual.

Promises can be either perpetual or for a specific period of time.

The obligations on the part of the individual are going to be determined by the constitution and the superior, not by the indvidual.

What the Church is looking is at degrees of consecration.

The consecration of Jesuit is a much more solemn consecration than that of Mother Teresa, even though she was a saint. Nonetheless, she was in simple vows. Jesuits are in solemn vows. The Church recognizes their way of life as a higher form of consecrated life than that of Missionaries of Charity. This is no reflection on their apostolic work or their personal holiness. The statement is about the intensity of the consecration, not about a person’s holiness.

There are communities in simple vows or in promises that have more demanding rules than religious orders in solemn vows. But the Church ignores that. The important thing to the Church is how she views the community. She does not view the Missionaries of Charity as she view sthe Jesuits. That’s just one example. Hoewever, she loves them both and both are necessar to the life of the Church.

The Catholic encyclopedia has a very long and boring article that summarizes these regulations. Religious Life. I say boring, because the writer gives too miuch information.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
 
I have not read all 30 pages; I’ve read hardly the first and last page.

That being said, let me tell you why I am siding with Fr. Corapi: I have yet to see evidence not to do so.

People were, and still are, so quick to jump on the “I was the first to speak out against him,” bandwagon, that they are not being rational, logical, or charitable. This began with the professional Catholic bloggers who couldn’t wait to throw stones at Father C, but, I didn’t hear them throwing stones at other priests accused of inapropirate activity OR, Mel Gibson, when he was in a known adulterous relationship and when that situation became even more media worthy.

WHY are people wanting to hate Father Corapi? He has mentioned the Church, follow the Church, and for some people, because he didn’t say Catholic, or because he hasn’t mentioned Mary, he has become a demonicly possessed heretic. People are looking for excuses, no matter how weak, to judge Fr. C. They just LOVE to treat him like the follower of Christ he is and persecute him despite all he has done. WHY!!! Before it was mentioned, ‘Why didn’t he say to follow Jesus and that he is nothing?’ Now he has said that in this last video and I don’t know what objections people have raised to that, but, I suspect they have.

I just cannot see what he has done to warrant this.

Let me make it clear, I am NOT against the Catholic Church. I am Team Father Corapi. What does it mean to be TFC? It means I am not on the side of those attacking him. The Catholic Church is not attacking him, but, people with false charity are.

As a last note, I don’t know if this has been posted, but, regarding SOLT’s Fact Finding Team: jrpresearch.org/blog/2011/07/07/solt-independent-fact-finding-team-must-have-missed-this-stuff-please-rt/

And, that’s another thing, if this were any more one-sided, it would contend with the media hyping pro same-sex unions. Why is it that on the Catholic blogosphere and CAF, anti-Fr.C sentiments are, I’m guessing, 10 to 1? Seriously, what is wrong with people, especially well known Catholics, that they want to slam Fr. C, and they take malicious prideful delight in showing how much they know and how they love to hurt him? Seriously.
 
I have seen some rather clever bishops ordaining members of religious communities or societies. They will word the question something like this, “Do you promise obedience to YOUR superior and his successors?” This way they keep the promise in the rite and no one is the wiser in the change of the wording.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
Thanks Brother, that makes sense. 👍
 
I have not read all 30 pages; I’ve read hardly the first and last page.

That being said, let me tell you why I am siding with Fr. Corapi: I have yet to see evidence not to do so.

People were, and still are, so quick to jump on the “I was the first to speak out against him,” bandwagon, that they are not being rational, logical, or charitable. This began with the professional Catholic bloggers who couldn’t wait to throw stones at Father C, but, I didn’t hear them throwing stones at other priests accused of inapropirate activity OR, Mel Gibson, when he was in a known adulterous relationship and when that situation became even more media worthy.

WHY are people wanting to hate Father Corapi? He has mentioned the Church, follow the Church, and for some people, because he didn’t say Catholic, or because he hasn’t mentioned Mary, he has become a demonicly possessed heretic. People are looking for excuses, no matter how weak, to judge Fr. C. They just LOVE to treat him like the follower of Christ he is and persecute him despite all he has done. WHY!!! Before it was mentioned, ‘Why didn’t he say to follow Jesus and that he is nothing?’ Now he has said that in this last video and I don’t know what objections people have raised to that, but, I suspect they have.

I just cannot see what he has done to warrant this.

Let me make it clear, I am NOT against the Catholic Church. I am Team Father Corapi. What does it mean to be TFC? It means I am not on the side of those attacking him. The Catholic Church is not attacking him, but, people with false charity are.

As a last note, I don’t know if this has been posted, but, regarding SOLT’s Fact Finding Team: jrpresearch.org/blog/2011/07/07/solt-independent-fact-finding-team-must-have-missed-this-stuff-please-rt/

And, that’s another thing, if this were any more one-sided, it would contend with the media hyping pro same-sex unions. Why is it that on the Catholic blogosphere and CAF, anti-Fr.C sentiments are, I’m guessing, 10 to 1? Seriously, what is wrong with people, especially well known Catholics, that they want to slam Fr. C, and they take malicious prideful delight in showing how much they know and how they love to hurt him? Seriously.
You make a lot of good points in your support of Fr. Corapi.

The most predominant opinion that I see here, especially from people like myself who have enjoyed his preaching and teaching throughout the years is that we would love to see him act heroic.

By this I mean, guilty or not, in humble obedience to the Church, join himself with the sufferings of Christ on the Cross and submit himself to the wishes of his superiors.

This is what I would expect from the man that I have been listening to all of these years, and I pray that this will come about eventually.
 
I have not read all 30 pages; I’ve read hardly the first and last page.

That being said, let me tell you why I am siding with Fr. Corapi: I have yet to see evidence not to do so.

People were, and still are, so quick to jump on the “I was the first to speak out against him,” bandwagon, that they are not being rational, logical, or charitable. This began with the professional Catholic bloggers who couldn’t wait to throw stones at Father C, but, I didn’t hear them throwing stones at other priests accused of inapropirate activity OR, Mel Gibson, when he was in a known adulterous relationship and when that situation became even more media worthy.

WHY are people wanting to hate Father Corapi? He has mentioned the Church, follow the Church, and for some people, because he didn’t say Catholic, or because he hasn’t mentioned Mary, he has become a demonicly possessed heretic. People are looking for excuses, no matter how weak, to judge Fr. C. They just LOVE to treat him like the follower of Christ he is and persecute him despite all he has done. WHY!!! Before it was mentioned, ‘Why didn’t he say to follow Jesus and that he is nothing?’ Now he has said that in this last video and I don’t know what objections people have raised to that, but, I suspect they have.

I just cannot see what he has done to warrant this.

Let me make it clear, I am NOT against the Catholic Church. I am Team Father Corapi. What does it mean to be TFC? It means I am not on the side of those attacking him. The Catholic Church is not attacking him, but, people with false charity are.

As a last note, I don’t know if this has been posted, but, regarding SOLT’s Fact Finding Team: jrpresearch.org/blog/2011/07/07/solt-independent-fact-finding-team-must-have-missed-this-stuff-please-rt/

And, that’s another thing, if this were any more one-sided, it would contend with the media hyping pro same-sex unions. Why is it that on the Catholic blogosphere and CAF, anti-Fr.C sentiments are, I’m guessing, 10 to 1? Seriously, what is wrong with people, especially well known Catholics, that they want to slam Fr. C, and they take malicious prideful delight in showing how much they know and how they love to hurt him? Seriously.
So we are either Team Father Corapi or Team SOLT? This sounds like something out of the Twilight series.
 
*Matt 23:1-3

1 Then Jesus spoke to the crowds and to his disciples,

2 saying, "The scribes and the Pharisees have taken their seat on the chair of Moses.

3 Therefore, do and observe all things whatsoever they tell you, but do not follow their example. For they preach but they do not practice.
 
Br. JR.

Not trying to make waves or be cheeky, but you say that those who call so and so a liar are sinning against charity. Then you say we ought not judge. . . but aren’t you judging those who call so and so a liar?

I mean. . . didn’t Fr. Corapi call someone a liar? So, does your judgment that those who call people a liar commit a sin against charity allow people to say that Fr. Corapi sinned against charity?

I wonder if it isn’t good for a person who lies to be called a liar sometimes, though. I wouldn’t think of it as “name-calling”, although it is pretty abrupt . . .

VC
 
As a last note, I don’t know if this has been posted, but, regarding SOLT’s Fact Finding Team: jrpresearch.org/blog/2011/07/07/solt-independent-fact-finding-team-must-have-missed-this-stuff-please-rt/

Thank you very much for posting. I don’t know about the above website. I think everyone here should visit it to get another perspective of what’s happening.

Now, I may just as well sign up with TFC. How do I do it? I already signed the papal petition.
 
Br. JR.

Not trying to make waves or be cheeky, but you say that those who call so and so a liar are sinning against charity. Then you say we ought not judge. . . but aren’t you judging those who call so and so a liar?

Brother is simply stating Church Teaching.
That can not be called "judging."


I mean. . . didn’t Fr. Corapi call someone a liar? So, does your judgment that those who call people a liar commit a sin against charity allow people to say that Fr. Corapi sinned against charity?

Describing another’s “sins” is making a judgment
on the state of their souls. We are NOT allowed to do that.


I wonder if it isn’t good for a person who lies to be called a liar sometimes, though. I wouldn’t think of it as “name-calling”, although it is pretty abrupt . . .

VC
 
Br. JR.

Not trying to make waves or be cheeky, but you say that those who call so and so a liar are sinning against charity. Then you say we ought not judge. . . but aren’t you judging those who call so and so a liar?

I mean. . . didn’t Fr. Corapi call someone a liar? So, does your judgment that those who call people a liar commit a sin against charity allow people to say that Fr. Corapi sinned against charity?

I wonder if it isn’t good for a person who lies to be called a liar sometimes, though. I wouldn’t think of it as “name-calling”, although it is pretty abrupt . . .

VC
Listen to this homily youtu.be/Bk9AA9WWT84 It may help you understand about rash judgements and judgments etc.
 
Thanks for the link.

What i mean, to clarify, is that it is ok to say that those people on facebook who called someone a liar are doing something sinful, and when Fr. Corapi called whoever a liar he did something sinful?

VC
 
Br. JR.

Not trying to make waves or be cheeky, but you say that those who call so and so a liar are sinning against charity. Then you say we ought not judge. . . but aren’t you judging those who call so and so a liar?
I said that calling someone a liar is a sin against charity and against justice.
  • It’s always against charity, because it’s a form of attack.
  • It can be against justice, if you cannot prove that the person lied. You would be accusing without proof.
Saying that someone lied, is addressing the act, not the person.

There is the big moral difference. Does that help?

Abstrinity, be very careful with this post
As a last note, I don’t know if this has been posted, but, regarding SOLT’s Fact Finding Team: jrpresearch.org/blog/2011/07/…uff-please-rt/
This is just a blog. Bloggers have many opinions. This particular blog does not prove that the SOLT acted maliciously. In fact, this blogger oversteps his bounds. You and I cannot tell the SOLT leadership to back-off. This blogger did that in one of his statements. Only the bishop can do that.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
 
I don’t think heroic white martyrdom is necessarily required of Fr. Corapi.
It looks to me like it is. He wants to cling to his life, and they are asking him to come quietly and wait.
Code:
... let's show some respect for the man who afterall was (and still is) a prophetic voice for the church until recently accused.
That prophetic voice was silenced on Ash Wed., and if he ever hopes to be able to use it again, he needs to follow the path of obedience now.

If not, then he has nothing prophetic to say to us, and cannot be voice for the church. Even his lawsuit makes it clear that anything productive he does is because of his role as a priest.
 
Describing another’s “sins” is making a judgment
on the state of their souls. We are NOT allowed to do that.


So reiterating a million times that Corapi has committed the sin of disobedience is judgemental?
 
Thanks BR, I can see the distinction.

So, to clarify, you object to saying to someone “you are a liar” but not to saying to someone “you lie”., would that be accurate?

VC
 
I have not read all 30 pages; I’ve read hardly the first and last page.
I would respectfully suggest that you take the time to read what has been posted previously before you respond further. Much of what you are discussing has already been hashed out in the preceding pages not to mention about 5 other threads on the topic here at CAF.

In addition, I would politely suggest that you take Brother JR’s advice and read the rule of St. Benedict as it pertains to obedience.

Peace,
 
Describing another’s “sins” is making a judgment
on the state of their souls. We are NOT allowed to do that.


So reiterating a million times that Corapi has committed the sin of disobedience is judgemental?
Stating that Fr. C. is in a state of disobedience to
a lawful authority is NOT the same as saying that
he is commiting the sin of disobedience.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top