Fr. Corapi Responds to Some of His Order's Charges

[jwinch2]

Just a few examples.

OBEDIENCE

Solemn vow: The Church believes that your practice obedience far surpasses that of any other Christian. She calls it solemn. She releases you from the authority of a bishop, except as is expected of any person who lives in his diocese.

Simple vow: The practice of obedience is still beyond that of anything that the Church expects of the faithful, but given the things that your community asks you to obey, the Church does not deem it to be on the same level as religious orders. These are always congregations.

Promise: The practice of obedience is still beyond what is epxpected of the ordinary Catholic, but the commitment is between you and the society. The Church approves of the commitment. However, the society can release you of it.

Solemn vows are always perpetual. Simple vows can be either perpetual or for a fixed amount of years and then you renew them or you make them perpetual.

Promises can be either perpetual or for a specific period of time.

The obligations on the part of the individual are going to be determined by the constitution and the superior, not by the indvidual.

What the Church is looking is at degrees of consecration.

The consecration of Jesuit is a much more solemn consecration than that of Mother Teresa, even though she was a saint. Nonetheless, she was in simple vows. Jesuits are in solemn vows. The Church recognizes their way of life as a higher form of consecrated life than that of Missionaries of Charity. This is no reflection on their apostolic work or their personal holiness. The statement is about the intensity of the consecration, not about a person’s holiness.

There are communities in simple vows or in promises that have more demanding rules than religious orders in solemn vows. But the Church ignores that. The important thing to the Church is how she views the community. She does not view the Missionaries of Charity as she view sthe Jesuits. That’s just one example. Hoewever, she loves them both and both are necessar to the life of the Church.

The Catholic encyclopedia has a very long and boring article that summarizes these regulations. Religious Life. I say boring, because the writer gives too miuch information.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

Thanks for that! Very helpful!

Jason

 

[catharina]

That’s what I was going to say…

Thanks.

 

[tm30]

I have not read all 30 pages; I’ve read hardly the first and last page.

That being said, let me tell you why I am siding with Fr. Corapi: I have yet to see evidence not to do so.

People were, and still are, so quick to jump on the “I was the first to speak out against him,” bandwagon, that they are not being rational, logical, or charitable. This began with the professional Catholic bloggers who couldn’t wait to throw stones at Father C, but, I didn’t hear them throwing stones at other priests accused of inapropirate activity OR, Mel Gibson, when he was in a known adulterous relationship and when that situation became even more media worthy.

WHY are people wanting to hate Father Corapi? He has mentioned the Church, follow the Church, and for some people, because he didn’t say Catholic, or because he hasn’t mentioned Mary, he has become a demonicly possessed heretic. People are looking for excuses, no matter how weak, to judge Fr. C. They just LOVE to treat him like the follower of Christ he is and persecute him despite all he has done. WHY!!! Before it was mentioned, ‘Why didn’t he say to follow Jesus and that he is nothing?’ Now he has said that in this last video and I don’t know what objections people have raised to that, but, I suspect they have.

I just cannot see what he has done to warrant this.

Let me make it clear, I am NOT against the Catholic Church. I am Team Father Corapi. What does it mean to be TFC? It means I am not on the side of those attacking him. The Catholic Church is not attacking him, but, people with false charity are.

As a last note, I don’t know if this has been posted, but, regarding SOLT’s Fact Finding Team: jrpresearch.org/blog/2011/07/07/solt-independent-fact-finding-team-must-have-missed-this-stuff-please-rt/

And, that’s another thing, if this were any more one-sided, it would contend with the media hyping pro same-sex unions. Why is it that on the Catholic blogosphere and CAF, anti-Fr.C sentiments are, I’m guessing, 10 to 1? Seriously, what is wrong with people, especially well known Catholics, that they want to slam Fr. C, and they take malicious prideful delight in showing how much they know and how they love to hurt him? Seriously.

This seems to be how Team Luther got started, too. Not sure why you would take sides with a splinter movement.

As for Mel Gibson, he wasn’t a known adulterer when the Passion was made. And when he went off the rails, he received an enormous share of criticism on these boards. That’s a strawman comparison at best.

Why are people wanting to hate Fr. Corapi?"

Ah yes - if we criticize someone or judge his actions, we must be “haters”. That’s secularist ideology at its worst.

Seriously, what is wrong with people, especially well known Catholics, that they want to slam Fr. C, and they take malicious prideful delight in showing how much they know and how they love to hurt him? Seriously.

Why are you judging people? Oh wait, only Fr. Corapi gets a free pass.

If you haven’t seen the evidence, it means you haven’t looked or listened. If Corapi wants us to follow Jesus and he is “nothing”, why is he promoting himself at all? He talks out of both sides of his mouth and that doesn’t constitute duplicity?

 

[JReducation]

Thanks BR, I can see the distinction.

So, to clarify, you object to saying to someone “you are a liar” but not to saying to someone “you lie”., would that be accurate?

VC

To be on the safe side, I would say “That’s not true.”

In the case that was mentioned above, regarding Father’s obedience. To be on the safeside, I would say, “I was told to do A, B, and C. He did not do it.” Or “He has to obey when he is told to do A, B, and C.”

When I say it that way, I am describing the situatuion.

• You were told to do something.
• You did not do it.
• You are supposed to do it.

For all I know, you may be convinced that you’re doing the right thing. That’s why I can’t accuse you of being a sinner. I can say, “You disobeyed, because that’s all that I can see.”

However, is everyone who disobeys culpable of mortal sin? Heck no. You need to meet certain criteria for culpability. It does not change the rule. Disobedience to your religious superior is a mortal sin.

But if my superior orders me to take the car and I decide to walk, because it’s a nice day, that’s not a grave violation of obedience.

Moral law does not get into minute details. That’s for confessors and spiritual directors to do. Moral law is like any other law. It speaks coldly and concisely, without giving details. Then it give you principles that you apply to see if, when and to what extent the moral law applies to the individual.

Unless you have all that information, you cannot say to someone, “You committed a mortal sin.” I can say, “You disobeyed.” That’s what I saw. I can’t see what is happening inside. That’s why even excommunicated people can go to heaven.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

 

[kristleful]

At first I was shocked, then upset with the way Fr. Corapi handled things, and now I am sad and feel bad for him. The last few seconds of Fr. Corapi’s last video, when he hung his head down at the end, just broke my heart. To me, throughout the video, he seemed so sad inside, so broken-down and weary. I imagine he is very conflicted, and though he hasn’t made what seems to be the best and right choice–return to SOLT and be obedient–I think he’s still struggling. The devil is waging a fierce battle here, and we should all be fighting for Fr. Corapi against him. Fr. Corapi has done so much for all of us; he has probably won many battles for so many of us in our sins, through his prayers. Now is the time to set aside our shock, disapproval, and curiosity, and return the favor through rosaries, Masses, and love. We must help Fr. Corapi in this, his weakest moment! This is what the Body of Christ is all about.

We could rally together and have as many Masses offered for him as we can… And we could all pray novenas for him together. Anyone interested? We could start a new thread with a novena for him. (Unless this has already been done… I haven’t looked yet. )

 

[catharina]

To be on the safe side, I would say “That’s not true.”

In the case that was mentioned above, regarding Father’s obedience. To be on the safeside, I would say, “I was told to do A, B, and C. He did not do it.” Or “He has to obey when he is told to do A, B, and C.”

When I say it that way, I am describing the situatuion.

• You were told to do something.
• You did not do it.
• You are supposed to do it.

**For all I know, you may be convinced that you’re doing the right thing. That’s why I can’t accuse you of being a sinner. I can say, “You disobeyed, because that’s all that I can see.”

However, is everyone who disobeys culpable of mortal sin? Heck no. You need to meet certain criteria for culpability. It does not change the rule. Disobedience to your religious superior is a mortal sin.**

But if my superior orders me to take the car and I decide to walk, because it’s a nice day, that’s not a grave violation of obedience.

Moral law does not get into minute details. That’s for confessors and spiritual directors to do. Moral law is like any other law. It speaks coldly and concisely, without giving details. Then it give you principles that you apply to see if, when and to what extent the moral law applies to the individual.

**Unless you have all that information, you cannot say to someone, “You committed a mortal sin.” I can say, “You disobeyed.” That’s what I saw. I can’t see what is happening inside. That’s why even excommunicated people can go to heaven. **

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

So many thanks!

 

[Verbum_Caro]

Thanks Brother.

Perhaps us saying “you speak falsely” to the offender fulfills the duty of charity better than other options.

I hope you’ll forgive me, though, for thinking that there are times when a robust “you lie” or even the warning “he is a liar” is appropriate, even if not perfect.

VC

 

[Verbum_Caro]

Fr. Corapi has done so much for all of us; he has probably won many battles for so many of us in our sins, through his prayers. Now is the time to set aside our shock, disapproval, and curiosity, and return the favor through rosaries, Masses, and love. We must help Fr. Corapi in this, his weakest moment! This is what the Body of Christ is all about.

That is a worthy sentiment. It reminds me of what Fr. Z said at the start of this – Fr. Corapi has an immortal soul.

VC

 

[mom4mary]

So did she speak of him in glowing terms after she left Santa Cruz Media too …

[QUOTEISorry, but priests don’t just “resign”. The priesthood is not just a club that you join. Being a priest is not like a secular job
[/QUOTE]

Very right. But they do get a dispensation by going through the proper church channel. I don’t think heroic white martyrdom is necessarily required of Fr. Corapi. Till then, if one truly believe in the permanent imprint of priestly character, let’s show some respect for the man who afterall was (and still is) a prophetic voice for the church until recently accused. History will attest for many reactionary renewal movements when the church was spiritually bankrupt. Don’t cast the first stone. The jury (literally - since Fr. Corapi has demanded a trial by jury) is still out.*

#1 - I am not aware of her saying ANYTHING about Fr. Corapi until her letter arrived at the Bishop’s desk and Fr. Corapi was suspended. Why did she decide to inform the Bishop now? None of us knows that answer to that question.

#2 - The proper channel would be SOLT, and Fr. Corapi has not gone through that channel. Instead, he has made his own “channel” - The Black SheepDog channel.

#3 - I am not showing disrespect to Fr. Corapi by a) noting the facts in his case, as stated by SOLT and the sitting Bishop if Corpus Christi. And respect is also due to the priests at SOLT and most certainly the Bishop of Corpus Christi, and none of those priests view Fr. Corapi as fit for the priesthood at present. Supporting SOLT and the Bishop are NOT disrespectful postions to take; quite the contrary.

#4 - So following this line of reasoning then, the Protestant Reformation should be viewed as a good thing? Furthermore, who gets to decide that the Church is spiritually bankrupt? Fr. Corapi? His followers? Our Lord said that the “gates of hell will not prevail” against His Church, and that the Holy Spirit will remain with her “until the end of the age.” Spiritually bankrupt? I’m not so sure about that.

 

[mom4mary]

That being said, let me tell you why I am siding with Fr. Corapi: I have yet to see evidence not to do so.

How about the words of his superiors at SOLT, the 3 person investigative panel, the sitting Bishop of Corpus Christi, and the hard evidence they have publicly stated that they have that Fr. Corapi has behaved in a manner unbecoming of a priest and therefore is not fit for priestly ministry at this time. Speaking for myself personally, that’s a lot of evidence.

 

[TheRealJuliane]

As a last note, I don’t know if this has been posted, but, regarding SOLT’s Fact Finding Team: jrpresearch.org/blog/2011/07/07/solt-independent-fact-finding-team-must-have-missed-this-stuff-please-rt/

Thank you very much for posting. I don’t know about the above website. I think everyone here should visit it to get another perspective of what’s happening.

Now, I may just as well sign up with TFC. How do I do it? I already signed the papal petition.

There is no “Team Fr. Corapi.” He is now The Black Sheepdog, he has made it clear that he is moving “onward,” and his last statement “End of an Era” on the BSD website, makes it abundantly clear. The man you knew as Fr. Corapi does not consider himself that any longer.

Stick with his website if you support his disobedience against his superiors. He will tell you everything you need to know. In his last video he tells his followers, “You follow Jesus Christ and His Church, you don’t follow me.” Sounds like even the Black Sheepdog doesn’t want you to splinter off and follow him.

 

[dfp42]

How about the words of his superiors at SOLT, the 3 person investigative panel, the sitting Bishop of Corpus Christi, and the hard evidence they have publicly stated that they have that Fr. Corapi has behaved in a manner unbecoming of a priest and therefore is not fit for priestly ministry at this time. Speaking for myself personally, that’s a lot of evidence.

Good point. Also wanted to add that I find it kinda ironic that in his last video Corapi has said he was drawing the line in the sand so to speak and he didn’t want to talk about it anymore or answer any more questions but wants to move on. The day after he said this, he announced the closing of his website and sales. He called it all a “era” of 20 years. Why would he do this if there was nothing wrong or going on? Before all this happened, he probably would of never thought about doing this. It all seems so quick.

 

[kristleful]

I have started a continuous rosary for Fr. Corapi here on CAF in the prayer intentions thread. For those of you who are interested in joining together to pray that Our Lady will rescue Fr. Corapi, here is the link:

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?p=8110176#post8110176
Just post and pray the next prayer in the rosary, and come back as often as you like to continue it. Thanks!

 

[dfp42]

franas;8109866:

There is no “Team Fr. Corapi.” He is now The Black Sheepdog, he has made it clear that he is moving “onward,” and his last statement “End of an Era” on the BSD website, makes it abundantly clear. The man you knew as Fr. Corapi does not consider himself that any longer.

Why else would he be closing up shop on his Fr. Corapi materials along with shutting down his Fr. Corapi facebook page in the next 2 weeks. He doesn’t want anything to do with the word Fr. John Corapi anymore is all I can get of it. He drew the line in the sand as he said and will NOT answer any more questions about his situation etc. It’s as if he’s making a deal with his followers, you are either for me or against me, no questions asked… “ONWARD!”

 

[TheRealJuliane]

I have started a continuous rosary for Fr. Corapi here on CAF in the prayer intentions thread. For those of you who are interested in joining together to pray that Our Lady will rescue Fr. Corapi, here is the link:

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?p=8110176#post8110176
Just post and pray the next prayer in the rosary, and come back as often as you like to continue it. Thanks!

I just did! Thanks!

 

[guanophore]

Describing another’s “sins” is making a judgment
on the state of their souls. We are NOT allowed to do that.

Not necessarily. A person behaving badly or does not necessarily make it a “sin” - mortal anyway. In order to commit a deadly sin, a person must have full knowledge and consent of the will. If a person is in the grip of an addiction or a mental problem, they may not be in control of their own senses, and therefore, are not culpable of a mortal sin.

Further, just because a person appears to be sinning, we still cannot know the state of their soul. I agree, we are not allowed to do that.

So reiterating a million times that Corapi has committed the sin of disobedience is judgemental?

I suppose it might. That is why I have never used the terms that way. All I can see from where I am sitting is that his superior gave him an order, and he is refusing to obey. Whether or not his soul is in a state of grace around that is between him and God.

In general, though, when a person has promised obedience then abandons their promise, red flags go up. When one promises chastity, then has sexual relations secretly, red flags go up. When one is asked to live in community, and one refuses, red flags go up. When a Roman Catholic priest is living large on money made selling the gospel, ref flags go up.

The judgement that needs to be made here is for myself, not for him. Is it prudent for me to follow such a person?

 

[TheRealJuliane]

Why else would he be closing up shop on his Fr. Corapi materials along with shutting down his Fr. Corapi facebook page in the next 2 weeks. He doesn’t want anything to do with the word Fr. John Corapi anymore is all I can get of it. He drew the line in the sand as he said and will NOT answer any more questions about his situation etc. It’s as if he’s making a deal with his followers, you are either for me or against me, no questions asked… “ONWARD!”

Well, actually, I think the answer is in the SOLT statement that he is not fit for ministry. He is not going to be ministering to his followers as Fr. Corapi, he is going to be speaking to them through this persona he has created, The Black Sheepdog. His order may have told him that he cannot continue to sell the material from his previous “era.”

 

[dfp42]

Well, actually, I think the answer is in the SOLT statement that he is not fit for ministry. He is not going to be ministering to his followers as Fr. Corapi, he is going to be speaking to them through this persona he has created, The Black Sheepdog. His order may have told him that he cannot continue to sell the material from his previous “era.”

I wondered about this as well. Either way www.fathercorapi.com and the facebook page relating to Father will be gone. Time will tell what he preaches about, but if it’s not Jesus Christ and his Church, it will not have the same effect even though it’s his strong voice speaking into the microphone. I think he needs to realize, people (his current fans) only followed him all these years because he spoke of Jesus and the Catholic Church.

 

[Shoshana]

At first I was shocked, then upset with the way Fr. Corapi handled things, and now I am sad and feel bad for him. The last few seconds of Fr. Corapi’s last video, when he hung his head down at the end, just broke my heart. To me, throughout the video, he seemed so sad inside, so broken-down and weary. I imagine he is very conflicted, and though he hasn’t made what seems to be the best and right choice–return to SOLT and be obedient–I think he’s still struggling. The devil is waging a fierce battle here, and we should all be fighting for Fr. Corapi against him. Fr. Corapi has done so much for all of us; he has probably won many battles for so many of us in our sins, through his prayers. Now is the time to set aside our shock, disapproval, and curiosity, and return the favor through rosaries, Masses, and love. We must help Fr. Corapi in this, his weakest moment! This is what the Body of Christ is all about.

We could rally together and have as many Masses offered for him as we can… And we could all pray novenas for him together. Anyone interested? We could start a new thread with a novena for him. (Unless this has already been done… I haven’t looked yet. )

I encourage anybody who possess these words of wisdom, and there has been a small number of them. God bless you for your charity.

Let us follow this advice…

 

[guanophore]

[BIBLEDRB][/BIBLEDRB]

Why else would he be closing up shop on his Fr. Corapi materials along with shutting down his Fr. Corapi facebook page in the next 2 weeks. He doesn’t want anything to do with the word Fr. John Corapi anymore is all I can get of it. He drew the line in the sand as he said and will NOT answer any more questions about his situation etc. It’s as if he’s making a deal with his followers, you are either for me or against me, no questions asked… “ONWARD!”

This was not his choice. From the time he was suspended on Ash Wed. he is no longer allowed to put himself out to the public as a priest.

It would not surprise me to learn that there wasn’t some sort of injunction against him, compelling him to shut down sales and pages that contain SOLT.