Fr. James Martin Criticizes ‘Homophobic’ Pastors at WMOF

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“LGBT people are more than their sexual lives,” he said, “and if you talk about chastity with LGBT people, do it as much with straight people.”
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The irony of how he says that “LGBT people are more than their sexual lives” while referring to them with an acronym that identifies them solely based on their sexual preferences.
 
tseleehw said:
The irony of how he says that “LGBT people are more than their sexual lives” while referring to them with an acronym that identifies them solely based on their sexual preferences.
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Maybe he’s identifying LGBT people that way because that’s the way that most of them want to be identified. It’s the polite thing to do.
 
“Once again he has set up a scarecrow–a straw man. Just what exactly does this “good celibate gay priest” look like? Undoubtedly there are a good number of Catholic priests who experience same sex attraction. I believe many of them are holy, hard working well adjusted men. Their sexuality has been accepted and integrated and by God’s grace they have mastered their lusts and sublimated their sexuality into their priestly vocation. However, they do not describe themselves as “gay”.

–Fr. Dwight Longenecker

 
I think this would inevitably include RCC Tradition, Sacred Scripture, Christ and the Apostles, so I am pretty comfortable alienating James Martin with my beliefs on this issue. If someone said this on CAF I would suspect he/she was probably a troll. A piece of advice, don’t fall into the trap of trying to justify yourself as merciful and ‘not homophobic’. That is your first mistake. It is like engaging with a Jehovah’s Witness. Just shut the door.
 
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Here’s a thought. Why did the Vatican even invite Fr. Martin to speak at the World Meeting of Families to begin with??? He’s a lightning rod in the negative sense. In light of the huge scandal that has rocked the Church, does anyone here think this is a wise decision? Just curious.
 
tseleehw said:
“LGBT people are more than their sexual lives,” he said, “and if you talk about chastity with LGBT people, do it as much with straight people.”
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The irony of how he says that “LGBT people are more than their sexual lives” while referring to them with an acronym that identifies them solely based on their sexual preferences.
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This ^ is a good example of a logical fallacy.
 
Based on an article that someone posted by Daniel Mattson, “Why Men Like Me Should
Not Be Priests,” an exception would have to be made for some people:
men with homosexual tendencies find it particularly difficult to live out the demands of chastity. The vast majority of scandals in the Church since 2002 involve homosexual priests profoundly failing in chastity. This is no surprise to me. Chastity, I’m convinced (and the evidence bears this out), is much harder for men with a homosexual inclination than for others.

Fr. James Lloyd, C.S.P., a priest with a PhD in psychology from NYU, has worked with homosexual men (including priests) for more than 30 years as a clinical psychologist. On the subject of chastity and homosexual priests, he says, “It is clear enough from clinical evidence that the psychic energy needed to contain homosexual drives is far greater than that needed by the straying heterosexual.”
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So, it seems according to what Mattson says that, unlike straight men, gay men just can’t contain their sexual urges. 😉

Or maybe Mr. Mattson is just being homophobic.
 
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Actually, marriage does not somehow release people from the law of chastity! (bold added)

http://www.scborromeo.org/ccc/para/2349.htm

“People should cultivate [chastity] in the way that is suited to their state of life. Some profess virginity or consecrated celibacy which enables them to give themselves to God alone with an undivided heart in a remarkable manner. Others live in the way prescribed for all by the moral law, whether they are married or single.” Married people are called to live conjugal chastity; others practice chastity in continence:

There are three forms of the virtue of chastity: the first is that of spouses, the second that of widows, and the third that of virgins. We do not praise any one of them to the exclusion of the others. . . . This is what makes for the richness of the discipline of the Church.
 
Well that is very demeaning. That’s saying that they are just wild led by their hormones. If heterosexual single men can be chaste so can homosexual men. Easy ------no I’m sure not, possible yes by the grace of God, prayer, other spiritual devotions and maybe even spiritual guidance by a spiritual director.
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I agree that what Mattson says is demeaning. But some people just really want to make the point that gay men are completely different than straight men when it comes to self control, and the sexual abuse crisis has given them a club to beat gay people with.
 
Just so I get it, those responding up thread believe that gay people are no more than their sexual lives? I honestly cannot think that is what you mean.

Fr Martin is encouraging us to see people as people.

As someone once said “God knows our sins and calls us by our name, Satan knows our name and calls us by our sins”.

If you have a cross to bear that is an inclination to a particular sin, let’s say it is watching pornography. How would it be if every conversation you had with a fellow Catholic, on line or in real life, all they would do is remind you that using pornography is a sin. You come in to a discussion about the death penalty or about Marian devotions, immediately they ask if you have used pornography recently. Would that seem to be a bit excessive?

Take it another step, you are a married person. You go to sign up to be an Usher at Church. The coordinator says “well, are you cheating on your spouse?” To assume someone is committing sin the opposite of charity.

Take some time and watch this video http://www.blackstonefilms.co/thethirdway/
 
By excluding LGBT people, you are breaking up God’s family; you are tearing apart the Body of Christ
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It’s is funny how people create a group identity and then complain about being excluded. But if they didn’t create the group they wouldn’t be. They exclude themselves.
Initially, promotional material for the World Meeting of Families included images of a same-sex couple. These images were later removed.
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Oh my, who is in charge of this disaster?
 
Mark121359 said:
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Thorolfr:
Or maybe Mr. Mattson is just being homophobic.
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A classic accusation from those on the left. And much like the race card, has practically been beaten to death.
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If you don’t like the word 'homophobic," then let’s just stick with demeaning, degrading, etc.
 
exnihilo said:
By excluding LGBT people, you are breaking up God’s family; you are tearing apart the Body of Christ
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It’s funny how group identities work. If someone has the group identity “Republican,” it kind of excludes them from another group identity called “Democrat”. But in theory, people with both identities should be welcome in the Catholic Church. And I think that people with the LGBT identity should be welcome, too. Perhaps that’s why the Vatican is starting to use this term:
The Vatican is showing unprecedented, if symbolic, outreach on issues of human sexuality, using what’s believed to be for the first time the term “LGBT” in a planning document for a huge upcoming bishops meeting.
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So grateful that I have the opportunity to work with Catholic kids, and help strengthen and educate them against such false teachings.
 
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