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exnihilo
Guest
If you identify yourself with an activity that is contrary to the teachings or morals of a group then you’d not expect acceptance.
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anon10271182
Guest
Last I heard, it wasn’t homo “phobic” pastors who were sexually abusing Catholic young men, teens and boys…
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Thorolfr
Guest
Just identifying with other people who experience SSA is not, as far as I know, contrary to the teachings of the Catholic Church. Everyone here keeps saying that it’s only having gay sex that is a sin, not being gay. And if the Vatican thinks that it’s OK to use terms like LGBT to reach out to LGBT people, then they must not see anything wrong with people identifying this way.
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Thorolfr
Guest
You should look up the word “homophobic” sometime in the dictionary. According to the Collins English Dictionary:
Maybe it’s just me, but your own comments seem to indicate “a strong and unreasonable dislike of gay people”.
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exnihilo
Guest
If the Vatican is using an acronym that has the word ‘transgender’ in it then that is a problem. Otherwise the only commonality the group has is a desire for homosexual sex. The desire is disordered but not in itself a sin. The LGBT movement however is entirely about having homosexual activity recognized as good. There is nothing good in recognizing it even if some Catholics may.
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anon10271182
Guest
“The LGBT movement however is entirely about having homosexual activity recognized as good. There is nothing good in recognizing it even if some Catholics may.”
Some will obstinately refuse to accept this truth you have just stated, no matter how many times it is told to them.
Some will obstinately refuse to accept this truth you have just stated, no matter how many times it is told to them.
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AlNg
Guest
So you don’t think it is a sin for one man to desire to have sex with another man?
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anon10271182
Guest
The Catechism doesn’t mention “desire,” so that’s a good question. Can one have the “inclination” without the “desire?” It seems that how one resists the desire might be a factor, i.e. rejecting fantasies, etc…? I mean we’re not supposed to indulge in sexual fantasizing whether hetero or homo (even though the former isn’t ipso facto deviant and the latter is).
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Tis_Bearself
Patron
I’ve accepted a long time ago that it’s pointless to try to have any reasonable discussion of Fr. Martin on here. So I’ll just pray for him instead, and throw in some prayers for gay people and for the Church while I am at it.
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MikeInVA
Guest
I don’t think I’ve ever wanted to be identified as, “Heterosexual Mike” nor do I ever remember knowing someone who wanted to be identified as heterosexual. I am very proud to be identified as a husband or a father but never by my sexuality.
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MikeInVA
Guest
When you organize to promote the disorder I think you’ve decided that the disorder is a good not an evil.
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exnihilo
Guest
It depends on what exactly is being promoted. Obviously people could organize to promote awareness of a disease or condition. That could be good. But if you organize to promote acceptance of immorality as good and encourage people to engage in immoral acts then that is bad.
I think it abundantly clear that the vast majority who use the LGBT acronym are organized to promote immoral acts as good. The perfectly good acronym SSA exists for anyone who truly wants to help those who suffer free themselves.
I think it abundantly clear that the vast majority who use the LGBT acronym are organized to promote immoral acts as good. The perfectly good acronym SSA exists for anyone who truly wants to help those who suffer free themselves.
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Jeanne_S
Guest
I agree completely.On another thread where I stated Fr,Martin is part of the problem I had my comments flagged as some here found this offensive.While he isn’t directly responsible for the crisis within the Church,his continued statements re chastity within the gay community,or should I say the lack thereof, are definitely troubling to say the very least.
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Thorolfr
Guest
Well, Mike, whether you announce it or not, everyone probably assumes that you’re heterosexual every time that you tell them that you’re a husband and a father, or meet someone and say, “…and this is my wife ____”. And since 90-95% of the population is heterosexual, no need to have organizations to protect your rights as a heterosexual so that you don’t get arrested in your own bedroom for having sex with your wife. It was only in 2003 in Lawrence v. Texas that the Supreme Court struck down sodomy laws when it comes to consenting adults in private because the plaintiff in that case, John Geddes Lawrence, was arrested when the police entered his apartment and found him in his own bed having sex with another man.Thorolfr:
I don’t think I’ve ever wanted to be identified as, “Heterosexual Mike” nor do I ever remember knowing someone who wanted to be identified as heterosexual. I am very proud to be identified as a husband or a father but never by my sexuality.
In most situations, gay men don’t go around and announce what their sexual orientation is. All a gay man would have to do when he goes to the office Christmas party with his significant other is say, “…and this is my partner Joe”. The good thing for gay people is that they don’t have to hide their sexual orientation the way that they once had to do. Nowadays, a gay man might not have to tell his partner Joe that he can’t come with him to the office Christmas party because if his employers knew that he was gay, he might get fired (this can still happen in some parts of the country where gay people have no protections in employment based on their sexual orientation).
And there are other situations where it’s important for people to know what your sexual orientation is. At some doctors’ offices, they now ask about a new patient’s sexual orientation on the intake forms because gay men do have some different healthcare needs than straight men and it’s helpful for the doctor to know this.
And sometimes, it’s useful for gay people to come together on the basis of their sexual orientation such as for political reasons. That’s one of the functions of LGBT pride parades. If 10,000 gay people show up for a parade, a member of a local city council might think, “Wow, I’ve got a lot of gay constituents, maybe I should vote ‘yes’ for that legislation protecting the rights of LGBT people in employment and housing.” And LGBT pride parades are important, too, because for a group of people who often got called "f-g or “qu-er” or maybe even got beat up in school because they were perceived to be different, it’s nice to come together to say to the world, “I’m not ashamed to be gay” (or lesbian, etc.). And sometimes it’s nice to be with 10,000 other people like yourself, especially if you grew up feeling isolated and alone and didn’t know any other gay people like yourself.
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MikeInVA
Guest
Sorry, there’s too much there to unpack and discuss. I don’t think recognizing and celebrating sinful behavior is good for individuals or society.
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Thorolfr
Guest
But, of course, most gay people don’t think that their behavior is sinful. Most of them are probably not even religious anymore, so that the language of “sin” has no meaning for them.
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MikeInVA
Guest
I think that there will be zero SSA saints in heaven. There will only be saints.
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Thorolfr
Guest
That’s assuming that there is a heaven. I’ve become so disillusioned by religion lately, that I have my doubts. Even the Catholic Church seems to be riven by factions and politics, with some people bashing Fr. Martin, a papal nuncio bashing Pope Francis. The sexual abuse that took place is a tragedy, but it feels to me that some people are using this to settle some scores.
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JimG
Guest
“We need to hear about the joy found in striving to live out chastity. All of us in the Church need to hear this. We won’t hear it from the culture. Unfortunately, some shepherds of the Church such as Fr. Martin are embracing the teachings of today’s culture rather than the beautiful teachings of our Church.”
–David Prosen-- What Fr. James Martin should have said in Ireland.
www.crisismagazine.com
–David Prosen-- What Fr. James Martin should have said in Ireland.
What Fr. James Martin Should Have Said in Ireland
Somehow, almost overnight, our culture decided that an “LGBT” identity is something that one is born with. There is no research proving this. As a matter of fact…
www.crisismagazine.com
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gracepoole
Guest
Fr. Martin isn’t entirely wrong in that there IS more discussion of homosexual acts than other sexual sins committed by heterosexuals. There may be multiple reasons for this but it does seem accurate.
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