Fr John Corapi has Announced in a Video Message that he is Leaving the Priesthood

[dfp42]

Fr. Corapi said today in a facebook comment “I am not seeking laicization”
Any thoughts?

 

[guanophore]

Nobody told Fr. Corapi to make a worldwide announcement that he was abandoning the priesthood.

He did not do this.

His faculties, the authorization to practice as a priest, have been indefinitely suspended. He is not allowed to hold himself out to the public as a priest. He has complied. He has also stated that he has not left the priesthood, or the faith.

 

[CTCatholic5]

This is the kind of calumny and baseless accusation that will get the thread closed. He has done nothing of the kind!

His attitude about seminaries has not changed since he made this video.

FYI, this is the seminary that Mr./Fr. Corapi went to. As far as I can tell, it is not associated with a diocese or particular religious group… making it a for-profit endeavor, effectively. Nice plug, Mr./Fr. Corapi!

[N.B. I agree with your point, but I’m only disputing your use of the video as evidence; I don’t think his indictment of the bishops/seminaries has been as spirited as, say, Mr. Voris’. Although, Mr./Fr. Corapi’s ‘beef’ with the official Church is far more recent, beginning with their investigation.]

 

[guanophore]

The proper title for a priest is “Father” not theBlacksheepdog. He is still a priest.

Yes, but it is a title that he has been forbidden to use since Ash Wednesday, and according to his canon lawyers, may be forbidden indefinitely.

 

[Abba]

Fr. Corapi said today in a facebook comment “I am not seeking laicization”
Any thoughts?

I see it as a retreat and realization that that he will lose many ‘fans’ if he does. I was actually trying to find the exact time of his post, just to check and see if it was after my last in where I note that it is something that in good faith he should be clear about. I have the impression that he is reading this thread as he used my words ‘legitimate authority’ and others in his response. Too bad he is not following the suggestion given in my post about the holy water, Father Amorph and father Sheehan.

Yet, at the same time it is very good news. It is an answer to many prayers and I only hope and pray that he follows the right path.

 

[guanophore]

From your post about all suffering being a gift, I’m guessing that you never found one of your children dead after a nap. I’m guessing you never did CPR on one of your lifeless children. Or listened to a doctor tell you that there was no hope and that your youngest child and only son was dead.

Perhaps I did not express myself in the best way, Kat, and for that I do apologize. We can be transformed by redemptive suffering, and it is the transformation that God works in us as the result of the suffering that is the gift. If I was unclear previously, I will try to do better this time.

You are wrong to assume that I have a different view of suffering than you because I have not had this kind of suffering, or other even more traumatic types of suffering. Had I not been able to find redemption and transformation in the types of events you describe here, I would have committed suicide a long time ago.

1 Thess 5:16-19
16 Rejoice always, 17 pray constantly, 18 give thanks in all circumstances; for this is the will of God in Christ Jesus for you.

How can we rejoice at such times of deep pain? How can we even pray, when words cannot be found?

We do not give thanks FOR the loss, but IN the loss. There is a critical difference.

 It's easy to call someone else's pain a "gift" when you've never experienced that kind of pain yourself.

I am not sure I agree with you, Kat, but that is irrelevant, since I am well acquainted with this kind of pain.

In any case, you are misunderstanding my point. It is not the pain that is the gift, but the redemption that God brings through it. This is the whole point of redemptive suffering.

Heb 12:2
2 looking to Jesus the pioneer and perfecter of our faith, who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross…

He was not full of joy FOR the cross. In fact, we see the opposite when He was in the garden, praying “let this cup pass from me”. None of us WANT to suffer. But suffering is inevitable. Loved ones die, horrible accidents and diseases happen. Sometimes we are taxed beyond what we believe we can handle. We get through it by looking for the joy that is set before us, and enduring.

 That suffering was NOT a gift from God.

Suffering becomes a gift when we are transformed by it into the holiness He desires for us. It is the transformation, not the pain, that is the gift. The pain is the path of transformation.

1 Peter 5:6-11
6 Humble yourselves therefore under the mighty hand of God, that in due time he may exalt you. 7 Cast all your anxieties on him, for he cares about you. 8 Be sober, be watchful. Your adversary the devil prowls around like a roaring lion, seeking some one to devour. 9 Resist him, firm in your faith, knowing that the same experience of suffering is required of your brotherhood throughout the world. 10 And after you have suffered a little while, the God of all grace, who has called you to his eternal glory in Christ, will himself restore, establish, and strengthen you. 11 To him be the dominion for ever and ever. Amen.

It is the restoration, and strengthening to which we look forward that enables us to endure the suffering, and resist the devil. The devil loves for us to fall into self pity, blame, and despair (as Judas did) because he can then claim our souls.

It is this humble attitude and complete trust in God that people are urging for Father Corapi, and encouraging him that this suffering is all part of God’s plan of salvation. Redemptive suffering is one of his best topics, and he may need to go back and listen to them right now!

 

[guanophore]

To insinuate that God would give someone that kind of “gift” means He’s a horrible and mean spirited God. A good God wouldn’t tear someone’s life into pieces so tiny that the person can never be whole again and tell them “Hey, it was a gift”.

The truth is, Kat, that God does allow us to suffer. He could spare us from it if He chose, because He is all powerful. He does not, because He wants to bring greater good out of it. And as Fr. Corapi is fond of pointing out, this is easy to see by just looking at the crucifix. The most horrendous crime of all time, the killing of God Himself, was permitted so that greater good could come out of it.

God wants to bring greater good out of your suffering too. He wants to transform you, restore, establish, and strengthen you. He wants to heal the wounds of loss you have suffered. This is the gift He has for you in the midst of suffering.

God supported me and still supports me. And Angel’s death brought about a law named for him that will hopefully protect other children from strangulation. But his death is not a gift. The suffering I’ve dealt with is not a gift. And to say something like that makes me really angry because it’s meant to minimize what happened.

Again, I apologize if I did not express myself well. It sounds like you have already expereinced some of the gift that God has brought about through your suffering, and the loss of your child. I will pray that you do experience the gift of transformation through your suffering, just as I am praying for Father Corapi right now.

1 Peter 2:19-22
9 For one is approved if, mindful of God, he endures pain while suffering unjustly… if when you do right and suffer for it you take it patiently, you have God’s approval. 21 For to this you have been called, because Christ also suffered for you, leaving you an example, that you should follow in his steps.

Redemptive suffering has the element of patience (which some of us are not seeing in some of the public announcements that have been made by the subject of this thread) and receptive humility. This is the most difficult task in all of human experience (as you have pointed out). The reason it can be so transformative is that it transcends human limitations. when His grace is at work within us during our suffering, we become the righteousness of God in Christ. As Fr. Corapi said in his doctoral dissertation, joining with Christ on the cross is the pinnacle of human experience.

 I've heard some pretty awful things since Angel died by well meaning people

It was God’s will (so tough it up and stop crying)
God needed another Angel (as if He couldn’t create another one if He wanted)
I know how you feel. I remember how bad I felt when my dog died (Yeah…someone actually compared their pain from their dog’s death to my pain after my son died)
He’s in a better place (You don’t know that. You hope that. You believe that. But you don’t know that for a fact. When Angel died, I wasn’t even sure there was a God or a heaven. His place was with me. That was the better place. To say he’s in a better place now insinuates that he wasn’t better off with me)
There’s a reason for everything (Yeah…give me a one good reason one why my child is dead)

I can see why such things would exacerbate your suffering.

 But to have someone say "It was a gift" (so embrace the horrific memory of finding your child hanging dead. It's a present from God!) definately takes the cake.

I am glad to know that you misunderstood what I said, and if you look back at my post, you will not find this. When we are in a lot of pain sometimes things that are said goes through the pain filters.

Suffering can only be made into a gift if we join it to Christ on the cross. The cross is the greatest gift of God to humanity. No one would stay Jesus’ suffering was a gift, either, most especially His mother. I am not saying that your horrific experience or memory of it is the gift, but I can see how you got there.

No one who’s suffering should ever be told their suffering was a gift. Never.

Do you think that a suffering person should not be reminded that their suffering can be redemptive, and that it will produce good fruit? I think Fr. Corapi, as well as you, needs very much to hear this right now.

Whether it’s a priest who’s been falsely accused or a mother who buried her baby, it’s not okay to say that. We benefited from Christ’s death on the cross-not Him. His pain was not a gift for Himself that He could embrace-even though He used it to free us from our sin. We benefited from the crucifixion-not Christ. Maybe others, in some way, are benefiting from my pain. Maybe another mother won’t have to go through what I went through because of Angel’s law. And she will benefit from my pain. But it is not a gift.

The transformation of your soul through it can be a gift though, if you let it.

 Unless you walked in another person's shoes, it's not okay to say something meant to minimize their pain. It's their pain. You can't say if it's beneficial or a gift. It isn't your pain. You don't know how that person feels.

It is not the pain that benefits, Kat. I work with traumatized people every day, and I can assure you that most of them are wrecked by their pain. they become addicts, criminals, and sometimes beat, maim, and kill others, or themselves. Pain, in and of itself, is destructive. That is why it is such a miracle that we can be transformed by it through His grace.

My heart hurts over your loss, as well as the loss and pain I hear in Fr. Corapi’s announcements. I pray that both of you will be able to find the gift that only God can bring in transformation through that pain.

 

[guanophore]

There are over 400,000 priests in the world. It’s a shame when any priest chooses to walk away from his vows…

I don’t understand this. How has he walked away from his vows?

 

[kitkatty]

I see it as a retreat and realization that that he will lose many ‘fans’ if he does. I was actually trying to find the exact time of his post, just to check and see if it was after my last in where I note that it is something that in good faith he should be clear about. I have the impression that he is reading this thread as he used my words ‘legitimate authority’ and others in his response. Too bad he is not following the suggestion given in my post about the holy water, Father Amorph and father Sheehan.

Yet, at the same time it is very good news. It is an answer to many prayers and I only hope and pray that he follows the right path.

Well I have seen other people use the term legitimate authority in referring to this situation and as for him reading this thread who knowsshrug:but he would have to be keeping up with everything on the internet non-stop 24/7to read it all if you think about his own website,Facebook,Twitter the many Catholic blogs.

 

[Abba]

Well I have seen other people use the term legitimate authority in referring to this situation and as for him reading this thread who knowsshrug:but he would have to be keeping up with everything on the internet non-stop 24/7to read it all if you think about his own website,Facebook,Twitter the many Catholic blogs.

Btw, kitkatty,

Do you know if the wolves in one of the eyes of that demonic looking dog suppose to be our Bishops dressed in sheep clothing?

 

[kitkatty]

Perhaps I did not express myself in the best way, Kat, and for that I do apologize. We can be transformed by redemptive suffering, and it is the transformation that God works in us as the result of the suffering that is the gift. If I was unclear previously, I will try to do better this time.

You are wrong to assume that I have a different view of suffering than you because I have not had this kind of suffering, or other even more traumatic types of suffering. Had I not been able to find redemption and transformation in the types of events you describe here, I would have committed suicide a long time ago.

1 Thess 5:16-19
16 Rejoice always, 17 pray constantly, 18 give thanks in all circumstances; for this is the will of God in Christ Jesus for you.

How can we rejoice at such times of deep pain? How can we even pray, when words cannot be found?

We do not give thanks FOR the loss, but IN the loss. There is a critical difference.

I am not sure I agree with you, Kat, but that is irrelevant, since I am well acquainted with this kind of pain.

In any case, you are misunderstanding my point. It is not the pain that is the gift, but the redemption that God brings through it. This is the whole point of redemptive suffering.

Heb 12:2
2 looking to Jesus the pioneer and perfecter of our faith, who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross…

He was not full of joy FOR the cross. In fact, we see the opposite when He was in the garden, praying “let this cup pass from me”. None of us WANT to suffer. But suffering is inevitable. Loved ones die, horrible accidents and diseases happen. Sometimes we are taxed beyond what we believe we can handle. We get through it by looking for the joy that is set before us, and enduring.

Suffering becomes a gift when we are transformed by it into the holiness He desires for us. It is the transformation, not the pain, that is the gift. The pain is the path of transformation.

1 Peter 5:6-11
6 Humble yourselves therefore under the mighty hand of God, that in due time he may exalt you. 7 Cast all your anxieties on him, for he cares about you. 8 Be sober, be watchful. Your adversary the devil prowls around like a roaring lion, seeking some one to devour. 9 Resist him, firm in your faith, knowing that the same experience of suffering is required of your brotherhood throughout the world. 10 And after you have suffered a little while, the God of all grace, who has called you to his eternal glory in Christ, will himself restore, establish, and strengthen you. 11 To him be the dominion for ever and ever. Amen.

It is the restoration, and strengthening to which we look forward that enables us to endure the suffering, and resist the devil. The devil loves for us to fall into self pity, blame, and despair (as Judas did) because he can then claim our souls.

It is this humble attitude and complete trust in God that people are urging for Father Corapi, and encouraging him that this suffering is all part of God’s plan of salvation. Redemptive suffering is one of his best topics, and he may need to go back and listen to them right now!

:thumbsup:Goodpost on redemptive suffering.

 

[kitkatty]

Btw, kitkatty,

Do you know if the wolves in one of the eyes of that demonic looking dog suppose to be our Bishops dressed in sheep clothing?

Nope,don`t even want to speculate on that one!

 

[CTCatholic5]

Nope,don`t even want to speculate on that one!

Wait, those were wolves? I thought they were a pack of black sheep dogs threatening the Christian sheep while the Shepherd is away?

 

[guanophore]

Simply because it wasn't materially useful, doesn't mean that it was the Word of God or even authentically Christian. There are plenty of 'positive thinking' tutorials lining the fringe of Christian spirituality that don't profit anyone, but also fall short of Gospel Truth.

Not quite.(the Word of God all along)

Perhaps this is not the thread for it, but I wonder what you think Corapi ever preached that was not authentically Christian, or “not quite” the Word of God. I have listened to literally hundreds of hours of his talks, and I have found them to be consistently reflective of the Magesterium/Catechism/Holy Scripture.

 Good preacher?--possibly. Good priest? ...

Who among us is qualified to judge his character as a priest? Is this not for his superiors, under God?

Some of us may wish he had handled this differently, or that his expressions were better, but what has that got to do with his being a “good priest” or not?

 

[guanophore]

Well, the sexual allegations would not be illegal, but the drugs I’m assuming would be, depending on what kind of drugs he was abusing.

Legal action is not possible because someone makes an allegation that another person has taken drugs. Even if it were true, one cannot be arrested or charged with a crime because they took drugs in the past. He is quite clear in his talks that he was sexually immoral and took illicit drugs prior to his conversion. If that were enough to charge him, they would have done it years ago.

 

[Abba]

Wait, those were wolves? I thought they were a pack of black sheep dogs threatening the Christian sheep while the Shepherd is away?

Ha, ha.

 

[CTCatholic5]

Perhaps this is not the thread for it, but I wonder what you think Corapi ever preached that was not authentically Christian, or “not quite” the Word of God. I have listened to literally hundreds of hours of his talks, and I have found them to be consistently reflective of the Magesterium/Catechism/Holy Scripture.

**Think about ecclesiastical censorship. The ‘nihil obstat’ signifies that there is nothing counter to the Church’s teaching in a given work.

Likewise, though Mr./Fr. Corapi’s lectures, sermons, homilies, &c. did not constitute heresy, there’s a difference between motivational speaking and preaching. Even when Mr./Fr. Corapi’s performances ascended to meat-and-potatoes preaching much of it depended on his (a)-(b)-(c) schtick, as I pointed out **

Who among us is qualified to judge his character as a priest? Is this not for his superiors, under God?

Some of us may wish he had handled this differently, or that his expressions were better, but what has that got to do with his being a “good priest” or not?

**Please note the statement I was responding to–someone stated definitively that Mr./Fr. Corapi was a good priest. I questioned this definitive judgment, and made the distinction between priesthood and preaching.

All-in-all, this comment of yours could have been avoided if you paid closer attention to what I said and why I said it. Although I can understand why someone is reflexively defensive after even the most remote criticism of a figure that they have spent ‘literally’ days listening to. **

 

[Abba]

I do not see the wisdom of Bishop Gracida advising Father Corapi to have a public trial and attempt to raise the laity against the authority of the Church. I would think that a Bishop would advice a priest to comply with his promise of obedience and not be taken away by the music of the world. I would also think that in his wisdom, he would consider the effect and the division and loss of souls that it would cause. I was reading on one of the comments on theblacksheepdog a person who recently converted to the Catholic Church write how they were re-considering because of the split the situation was creating. One dear soul that is lost in this situation is one too many.

This is not the first time he tries this logic:

Bishop Gracida concluded, “It is not unreasonable to suggest that the ‘buck’ for the scandal of the secular extravaganza which obscured the sacred liturgical nature of the Kennedy funeral should stop at the desk of the Cardinal Archbishop of Boston.** Again, since I do not want to directly criticize another bishop, I leave it to the laity to analyze the true nature of that celebration**.”abyssum.wordpress.com/2009/09/17/another-expression-of-the-sensus-fidelium-on-the-ted-kennedy-funeral-september-17-2009/

 

[guanophore]

Yeah… but notice what (1) and (2) are in response to: a poster comparing him to St. Paul and likening him to a prophet. This is a person who we have legitimate concern over whether he is cavorting with a married woman and using drugs.

No, CT. Most of us don’t find these allegations “legitimate” at all.

And your posts show anything but “concern” about anyone.

Just the facts.

No, CT, you have not posted facts but meanness. It might behoove you to take a time out, and read the forum rules. It is a violation for you to make posts as you have, demeaning ordained clergy, whatever their current status.

Did the blacksheepdog do anything to me? Hm. Let's see. He asked me--not personally, of course--to pity him, while at the same time: (1) personally attacking his accuser, (2) intentionally obfuscating the circumstances of his denunciation, (3) completely blowing his hardships out of proportion and (4) still standing behind the Cross and collar. This is on the level of abuse.

If you see yourself as being abused by the situation, perhaps it would be in your best interest to separate yourself from it. This man needs our prayers right now, not vitriol.

We are to do unto others what we would have them do unto us, not as we perceive they have already done unto us. If you feel he has treated you badly , rather than reacting so spitefully, how about exercising some fruit of the Spirit, and take up the cross?

Gal 6:2
…bear one another’s burdens, and so fulfil the law of Christ

It might not be pleasant to read this about your hero, but I revere the men in the collar only in their capacity as 'alter Christi.' Mr./Fr. Corapi has long since forfeited this comparison.

I don’t see how, but I will respect the fact that you are seeing things from some other perspective than I. It seems it would be in your best interests to find another focus for your attention, since your uncharitable attitude will probably get our thread closed.

He tells us himself. Go learn from the horse’s mouth what the Stud does with his wealth.

This is grossly disrespectful.

 

[tm30]

He did not do this.

His faculties, the authorization to practice as a priest, have been indefinitely suspended. He is not allowed to hold himself out to the public as a priest. He has complied. He has also stated that he has not left the priesthood, or the faith.

He has separated himself. He has declared himself “formerly Father”. He has given himself a new name (the black sheepdog), where Scripture tells us it is the prerogative of God to give a new persona to the faithful. He has pumped himself up and cynically marketed his wares, and resorted to some exceptional double-speak, while watching this disaster unfold from the comfort of his ranch. He has taken measure of himself and found that he is indispensable to his fans. If he just wants his “sheep” to follow the Church, WHY DID HE SET UP A WEBSITE under his new persona? Here’s an idea! Get rid of the website, re-join the community and then tell people to follow the Church!

He has sewn confusion, doubt, and division with his actions. What he has said, he has said for shock value. He has threatened. He has revealed the sins of others. He has shown shocking disrespect to the ordained Bishop of Corpus Christi by turning this into a three-ring-circus. I spent the last few days ruminating on giving him the benefit of the doubt. But with the lack of clarity, the semantic gymnastics, and the hijinks with web addresses, phone messages, and non-disclosure contracts that by definition “hide” information, I’m done.