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vern_humphrey
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I won’t ascribe motive to anyone – but I wonder why some people get so hot against those who show pictures of aborted babies, but not against those who killed the babies?
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Philothea53
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Yeah, that’s kind of the 50 million baby question, isn’t it?
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vern_humphrey
Guest
Everyone knows a responsible parent waits until the horse is stolen before locking the barn door.
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estesbob
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The only way one can rationalize supporting abortion is to discuss it only in the abstract. Usually this entails talking about reproductive rights or “choice”. When pressed on the issue they generally resort to attacking the pro-life position on the fringes. They trying change the subject to a discussion on very rare estopic pregnancies , equally rare pregnancies that directly imperil the life of the mother or question our compassion for rape and incest victims. Anything but talk about the horror that goes on these clinics.
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Maria1212
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I think the bickering that has gone on this thread is a disgrace. I am pro-life but I do not think graphic pictures should be placed where small child are likely to see them. Parents should have a choice on when to teach their children about sex, its consequences, and on the horror of abortion. I do think graphic pictures should be used when educating people on the horror of a abortion so that people learn the truth of the procedure, but this should be done in an appropriate manner, out of respect ALSO for the child already born. Please let me explain.
When I was small --before I knew what sex was or where babies came from–my Mom was taking me to the orthodentist office (2nd grade). Some pro-life demonstrators were right outside the office with very graphic signs that upset me greatly. This only hurts the pro-life movement. Those pictures are important, and have an educational value. But they were used in an inappropriate way. It was as if the demonstrators wanted to upset me, and use that emotion to upset my Mom. They could have at least held the signs and other materials at a height appropriate for an adult, but they were positioned as if a child was the intended audience.
I support the pro-life movement and believe strongly we need to protest the murder of unborn children. But our strategy can backfire. Our pride about not always using the best strategy can also get in the way. Yes, we should use appropriate visual imagery, and I am all in favor of using ultra-sound, as well as other measures to make sure the mother and father understand they are murdering their child when they “choose” abortion. But at the same time, we need to respect small children.
Moreover, in addition to using an ultra-sound, they should use it while performing the abortion, so that people fully understand “their choice.”
In addition to using imagery to stopping abortion, I hope that publicizing things like Project Rachel will help women realize they have a choice when choosing life.
The fact that abortion is an option disgusts me. So I get upset about all the bickering on how to stop it. Everyone has a different tactic. For some it is praying the rosary outside an abortion clinic. For others it is holding signs and demoonstrating. I just hope that everyone will still respect the rights of children and parents to have the option to discuss abortion at an appropriate age, rather than force parents to explain it before their child even knows what sex is. Maybe I was naive, but I went to Catholic school and when I first started second grade, had not learned that yet. I was glad I had the opportunity to be a child before learning about all of the horrible things going on in the world.
Sincerely,
Maria1212
When I was small --before I knew what sex was or where babies came from–my Mom was taking me to the orthodentist office (2nd grade). Some pro-life demonstrators were right outside the office with very graphic signs that upset me greatly. This only hurts the pro-life movement. Those pictures are important, and have an educational value. But they were used in an inappropriate way. It was as if the demonstrators wanted to upset me, and use that emotion to upset my Mom. They could have at least held the signs and other materials at a height appropriate for an adult, but they were positioned as if a child was the intended audience.
I support the pro-life movement and believe strongly we need to protest the murder of unborn children. But our strategy can backfire. Our pride about not always using the best strategy can also get in the way. Yes, we should use appropriate visual imagery, and I am all in favor of using ultra-sound, as well as other measures to make sure the mother and father understand they are murdering their child when they “choose” abortion. But at the same time, we need to respect small children.
Moreover, in addition to using an ultra-sound, they should use it while performing the abortion, so that people fully understand “their choice.”
In addition to using imagery to stopping abortion, I hope that publicizing things like Project Rachel will help women realize they have a choice when choosing life.
The fact that abortion is an option disgusts me. So I get upset about all the bickering on how to stop it. Everyone has a different tactic. For some it is praying the rosary outside an abortion clinic. For others it is holding signs and demoonstrating. I just hope that everyone will still respect the rights of children and parents to have the option to discuss abortion at an appropriate age, rather than force parents to explain it before their child even knows what sex is. Maybe I was naive, but I went to Catholic school and when I first started second grade, had not learned that yet. I was glad I had the opportunity to be a child before learning about all of the horrible things going on in the world.
Sincerely,
Maria1212
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Philothea53
Guest
guttmacher.org/presentations/abort_slides.pdf
Here is a sickening compilation of facts from the Alan Guttmacher Institute, the research arm of Planned Parenthood. While you have to wade through these pages of facts according to AGI on how ‘safe’ abortion is and the selfish, self-serving reasons women give for killing their unborn children, you can see on page 23 that Guttmacher reports <1% of abortions are done on girls younger than 15 years of age. The website has changed - they removed reference to the pre-teens having abortions that they used to have (gee, imagine that). There used to be clear reference to babies having babies - when it suited their purpose. I won’t do any more research for you,…
But, doing the math, 1% of 1.3 million abortions per year (down from a high of 1.5 million) is 13,000 babies of pregnant girls younger than 15 years old are killed every year . Again with the math, that’s 442,000 babies killed since 1973 of pregnant little girls.
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vern_humphrey
Guest
And it isn’t the abortionists who are wrong, it’s the people who show pictures of their grisly work.
Somehow, trying to protect unborn children harms other children.
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Maria1212
Guest
I would also like to add that informed consent is not a solution either. I have a friend (who I know as an adult) who got pregnant at 14. Her parents took her to have an abortion but did not tell her what was going on. She thought she was having a check-up and before she knew it, they gave her anethesia, and she was asleep. When she woke up, she had been given an abortion and told that the baby was gone. They wanted to spare her the pain and guilt of having an abortion and wanted the “blood” to be on their hands. Finding out that your parents consented to murdering your baby does not spare you pain.
We should teach the horrors of abortion when we teach children about sex and its consequences. But it is a parent`s right to choose when and where to have that conversation.
I hope that people will use graphic pictures, but I hope they will be respectful to small children when they choose to display them. (Keeping height and appropriate eye level in mind).
Sincerely,
Maria1212
We should teach the horrors of abortion when we teach children about sex and its consequences. But it is a parent`s right to choose when and where to have that conversation.
I hope that people will use graphic pictures, but I hope they will be respectful to small children when they choose to display them. (Keeping height and appropriate eye level in mind).
Sincerely,
Maria1212
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Maria1212
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Both can be wrong. The first is always wrong, the second can be. I just ask that people be respectful of small children when displaying these images. For example, please don
t display them right outside of a childrens dentist office. And display them at a height targeted for an adult, not for a child.Sincerely,
Maria1212
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vern_humphrey
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That’s why I’m pushing for a bill that would allow such a girl to sue upon reaching majority.
But that doesn’t mean others don’t have a right to freedom of expression – take that too far, and no one could say anything or show any picture any parent might object to,
Which is quite reasonable.
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Ani_Ibi
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I don’t get it. What are we protecting children from again? Their own valid emotional responses to a manifest evil which they recognize because moral law is already written on their hearts?
When I was in grade 4, a classmate took us to his father’s slaughter house. My best friend refused to go in and I stayed with her for a while outside, then I went in.
Sure I had a fit when I saw them slaughtering cattle. But I was able to talk about it and put it into context. I believe we cannot protect children from life but we can give them the tools to make their own preliminary forays into the world of choice. Without information children don’t learn to make choices.
My best friend btw had a nervous breakdown many years later. Her mother said that she had carried the weight of the world too heavy on her shoulders. I don’t think so. I think that her shoulders were never given a chance to strengthen themselves for adult life.
When I was in grade 4, a classmate took us to his father’s slaughter house. My best friend refused to go in and I stayed with her for a while outside, then I went in.
Sure I had a fit when I saw them slaughtering cattle. But I was able to talk about it and put it into context. I believe we cannot protect children from life but we can give them the tools to make their own preliminary forays into the world of choice. Without information children don’t learn to make choices.
My best friend btw had a nervous breakdown many years later. Her mother said that she had carried the weight of the world too heavy on her shoulders. I don’t think so. I think that her shoulders were never given a chance to strengthen themselves for adult life.
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vern_humphrey
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There is no upside to hiding the evils of the world from children – not as long as they have to grow up and live in this world.
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estesbob
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So why are you adding to it?
I’m glad the pictures upset you greatly. That’s what the purpose is.
Since it is impossible to publicly protest apportion in a place where children may not be present you are basically telling peopleto stop protesting abortion lest we hurt the little one’s feelings. When one talks about protecting our children by keeping them ignorant of what is legal in this country we should qualify the word "children “to mean” those children fortunate enough to escape the womb.
Also known as informed consent which you deride elsewhere in this thread.
Just as long as they do in private correct?
I personally am tired of people telling me that I have to be careful in protesting abortion lest I hurt someone’s feelings.
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Ani_Ibi
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I guess one is obliged to ask how it is possible to publicize something privately? That would be a benchmark in the history of double-speak.
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vern_humphrey
Guest
There’s another double-speak benchmark to go with it – in order to protect the children, you’re not allowed to protect children.
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Maria1212
Guest
Perhaps I did not explain myself clearly. I did not deride informed consent anywhere in this thread. If I did, my writing was not clear. Nor did I state that graphic pictures should only be used in private. However, I do think that the target audience should not be second graders or small children. What I was trying to articulate is that choosing where to demonstrate, and keeping in mind the “target audience” is important. I know many familes take their children to pray the rosary outside of abortion clinics. I think that sets an excellent example. However, I do believe parents have the right to take their children to a children`s dentist, and not have to walk past graphic pictures, at eye level of a first or second grader, when walking from the dentist office to the parking lot.
I will also point out I have no problem with people respectfully disagreeing with my personal opinion. When I referred to “bickering” it was because some posters “sling mud” at other forum members based on past experiences with them, rather than sticking to the content of posts made on this specific thread. It is wearisome to have to scroll past ten posts to fine on that is actually on the topic of the thread at hand.
Just because we disagree on tactics, does not mean we do not do our best to stop it.
Sincerely,
Maria1212
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Mag_Uidhir
Guest
I’ll trade a child looking at a picture of an aborted baby any-day, than what those other innocent souls have to endure, because there is evidence in many cases that the child suffers great pain.
We have to prick peoples consciences, and a picture speaks a thousand words, we’d like small children or any child not to see them, in fact I’d rather no-one see them, but this is the real world, this is the reality and horror of abortion, the so-called modern day worlds Silent Holocaust.
Abortion stops a beating heart.
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mapleoak
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Careful, I got beat up on one of these threads for mentioning something about slaughtering animals!
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vern_humphrey
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Many people who can accept the slaughter of the unborn get upset about slaughtering animals.Careful, I got beat up on one of these threads for mentioning something about slaughtering animals!
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Ani_Ibi
Guest
The animal wasn’t a dd he was it? :getholy: I think beating dd h**es is discouraged.Careful, I got beat up on one of these threads for mentioning something about slaughtering animals!
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