Fr. Pfleger calls for women priests, cardinals

[catharina]

catharina, I for one am getting very use to you. And I have learned that no matter what, whether you agree or disagree, you are going to argue for the sake of arguing, and keep using insults and derogatory comments.

You will be happy to know that I, for one, will never respond to your posts again.

The real issue is this:
How DARE you demand that anyone re-type YOUR WORDS to prove their faithfulness.
You can ignore that you did it - but YOU DID IT.

I won’t be forgetting it.
Never before have I seen such a thing on Catholic Answers
I do mean NEVER.

(… and I’ve seen a LOT.)

 

[Inhimthroughher]

i know that i have no right to call a priest a heretic.
I guess you don’t know that. Too bad for you, imo.

You have a right and a responsibility if it is true.

You were very big about correcting the sinner earlier. It applies to priests also.

 

[discomike2000]

To you and the rest of the little "we:’

I will NEVER quote the off-on-a tangent meanderings of several posters in the “we” (you were one) "“Women’s ordination is Heresy and to promote it is heretical” with my agreement. That is a NEVER. You are pseudo teachers.

Get used to it.

Catharina,

I am honestly confused, so please don’t take this question as an attack. Some of what you have said seems to agree that the concept of women’s ordination in the priesthood is heretical, and some of what you’ve said seems to indicate you do not think this position is heretical.

So, for the sake of clarity, so that at least I can understand … do you agree that a statement from a Catholic that there should be woman priests is a heretical statement?

A simple yes or no will suffice … I just don’t really understand what this exceedingly long argument is about.

 

[catharina]

You have a right and a responsibility if it is true.

You were very big about correcting the sinner earlier. It applies to priests also.

So do it.
Write to Father Pfleger. Who’s stopping you?

 

[Inhimthroughher]

So do it.
Write to Father Pfleger. Who’s stopping you?

So we are in agreement then. Thanks

 

[catharina]

Catharina,

I am honestly confused, so please don’t take this question as an attack. Some of what you have said seems to agree that the concept of women’s ordination in the priesthood is heretical, and some of what you’ve said seems to indicate you do not think this position is heretical.

So, for the sake of clarity, so that at least I can understand … do you agree that a statement from a Catholic that there should be woman priests is a heretical statement?

A simple yes or no will suffice … I just don’t really understand what this exceedingly long argument is about.

I know that supporting the idea of women’s ordination is heretical
because the Church quite clearly teaches me that.

Does the same Church call ME to point a finger at anyone and say “Heretic!” -
absolutely not. It astounds me that so many seem to think it their right and duty!

If I were younger I might say it also scandalizes me but I’m much too old for that.

Clarity now?

 

[catharina]

Unspoken apologies, fully accepted, from all who DEMANDED
that I re-type and accept another poster’s “VERSION” of Church teachings.
Hope my point has finally sunk in for the many who joined in that demanding “we.”

Let’s move on.

 

[Super_Grover]

catharina, I for one am getting very use to you. And I have learned that no matter what, whether you agree or disagree, you are going to argue for the sake of arguing, and keep using insults and derogatory comments.

You will be happy to know that I, for one, will never respond to your posts again.

Brooklyn,
Sadly, this may be the only rational approach to take and the one that will make Catharina the most angry. After several failed attempts to rationally engage her, I reviewed her other postings and found other instances of the same sort of thing and people expressing astonishment at how the thread had become so vitriolic.

 

[discomike2000]

I know that supporting the idea of women’s ordination is heretical
because the Church quite clearly teaches me that.

Does the same Church call ME to point a finger at anyone and say “Heretic!” -
absolutely not. It astounds me that so many seem to think it their right and duty!

If I were younger I might say it also scandalizes me but I’m much too old for that.

Clarity now?

Thank you for the clarification!

While I am sometimes quick to point out heretical statements, I try to be clear that I am making a judgment on the action alone without attempting to insinuate motive or internal disposition.

Many times we complain about having weak bishops. While this may be true, I think we have weak bishops because the flocks are starving them … spiritually. If we do not feed them with our prayers and sacrifices, how will they have the strength to defend and guide us? All the advice and analysis in the world will not make up for winning spiritual support for our shepherds.

Our Lady of Fatima gave a very serious warning about the spreading of the errors of Russia throughout the world and that the Holy Father will have much to suffer (as he clearly is now), and as a remedy she asked for the consecration of Russia to her immaculate heart. Many people point at the Pope and say that this was never done, but very frequently, they forget that there were TWO requests, and not just the consecration. She ALSO said that we must make the first Saturday Communions of Reparation. Considering how few Catholics attend even Sunday Mass, how many fewer are making the First Saturdays?

I am frustrated with bishops like Cardinal George, Cardinal Mahoney, Archbishop Weurl, and the others who seemingly do nothing to correct the damage being done by priests like Fr. Pfleger, and because of their refusal to follow Canon 915 by denying Holy Communion to pro-abortion politicians. But I think that the problem is that A) they have forgotten who they are, as the miracle-working successors to the Apostles themselves, and B) they are weak because their flocks are not paying and sacrificing for them.

Honestly and truly, if we are to have strength in our prelates, it MUST start with our work in winning graces for them. St. Francis of Assisi is a prime example of this. The pope had a dream of Francis holding up the crumbling Church, not because St. Francis was admonishing those who weren’t maintaining the faith, but because his extreme poverty, fasting, and prayers were winning the graces to Hold the Church up!

Yes, many of our prelates are asleep at the wheel, but we can’t help them unless we are fasting and praying for them! This is where it begins! This is where it MUST begin! And though we MUST work to correct scandal, more importantly, we MUST win graces for our shepherds!

 

[catharina]

Brooklyn,
Sadly, this may be the only rational approach to take and the one that will make Catharina the most angry. After several failed attempts to rationally engage her, I reviewed her other postings and found other instances of the same sort of thing and people expressing astonishment at how the thread had become so vitriolic.

As you wish, of course.
Yet I hope you recognize that as faithful Catholics, we are not allowed to demand
that another Catholic agree with our stated impressions and pretend it’s Church teachings.

Denominations might do that.
Some cults might do that.
The Catholic Church does NOT ever do that.

Best to you in your studies of Catholic Teachings.

 

[JulieAA]

Yikes, these postings have gone on since the dawn of time! It must be obvious to everyone that this is all a war of words. So much hostility!

Catharina, my sister, if you believe in your heart what you are saying is true and others are wrong, then pray for them. We will all stand before our Lord and Master, Jesus Christ some day, let Him have the last word. I am sure you already know that we will all be accountable for everything we have said and done to our brethern, especially when it is done with anger. There is so much turmoil in the world right now and satan is doing everything in his power to put brother against brother and sister against sister. Let’s not let him win this battle.

 

[qui_est_ce]

Brooklyn,
Sadly, this may be the only rational approach to take and the one that will make Catharina the most angry. After several failed attempts to rationally engage her, I reviewed her other postings and found other instances of the same sort of thing and people expressing astonishment at how the thread had become so vitriolic.

The problem is, we allowed ourselves to get embroiled in this little word game.

I say, “Fr. Pfleger made a heretical statement. He apologized for I know not what. In his statement he reiterated his belief in women ordination.” Is Fr. "Pfleger a heretic? Not my call. Did he say something heretical? YES. Is he behaving in a heretical way? YES.

Next time we see these schizophrenic self-important rants, we’ll learn to discuss with people whose posts we understand.

Most of us have been quite charitable and patient.

 

[catharina]

Thank you for the clarification!

While I am sometimes quick to point out heretical statements, I try to be clear that I am making a judgment on the action alone without attempting to insinuate motive or internal disposition.

PERFECT!

Many times we complain about having weak bishops. While this may be true, I think we have weak bishops because the flocks are starving them … spiritually. If we do not feed them with our prayers and sacrifices, how will they have the strength to defend and guide us? All the advice and analysis in the world will not make up for winning spiritual support for our shepherds.

Amen.

Our Lady of Fatima gave a very serious warning about the spreading of the errors of Russia throughout the world and that the Holy Father will have much to suffer (as he clearly is now), and as a remedy she asked for the consecration of Russia to her immaculate heart. Many people point at the Pope and say that this was never done, but very frequently, they forget that there were TWO requests, and not just the consecration. She ALSO said that we must make the first Saturday Communions of Reparation. Considering how few Catholics attend even Sunday Mass, how many fewer are making the First Saturdays?

I am frustrated with bishops like Cardinal George, Cardinal Mahoney, Archbishop Weurl, and the others who seemingly do nothing to correct the damage being done by priests like Fr. Pfleger, and because of their refusal to follow Canon 915 by denying Holy Communion to pro-abortion politicians. But I think that the problem is that A) they have forgotten who they are, as the miracle-working successors to the Apostles themselves, and B) they are weak because their flocks are not paying and sacrificing for them.

Honestly and truly, if we are to have strength in our prelates, it MUST start with our work in winning graces for them. St. Francis of Assisi is a prime example of this. The pope had a dream of Francis holding up the crumbling Church, not because St. Francis was admonishing those who weren’t maintaining the faith, but because his extreme poverty, fasting, and prayers were winning the graces to Hold the Church up!

Yes, many of our prelates are asleep at the wheel, but we can’t help them unless we are fasting and praying for them! This is where it begins! This is where it MUST begin! And though we MUST work to correct scandal, more importantly, we MUST win graces for our shepherds!

Yes - that’s our clear responsibility!

 

[Brooklyn]

Thank you for the clarification!

While I am sometimes quick to point out heretical statements, I try to be clear that I am making a judgment on the action alone without attempting to insinuate motive or internal disposition.

Many times we complain about having weak bishops. While this may be true, I think we have weak bishops because the flocks are starving them … spiritually. If we do not feed them with our prayers and sacrifices, how will they have the strength to defend and guide us? All the advice and analysis in the world will not make up for winning spiritual support for our shepherds.

Our Lady of Fatima gave a very serious warning about the spreading of the errors of Russia throughout the world and that the Holy Father will have much to suffer (as he clearly is now), and as a remedy she asked for the consecration of Russia to her immaculate heart. Many people point at the Pope and say that this was never done, but very frequently, they forget that there were TWO requests, and not just the consecration. She ALSO said that we must make the first Saturday Communions of Reparation. Considering how few Catholics attend even Sunday Mass, how many fewer are making the First Saturdays?

I am frustrated with bishops like Cardinal George, Cardinal Mahoney, Archbishop Weurl, and the others who seemingly do nothing to correct the damage being done by priests like Fr. Pfleger, and because of their refusal to follow Canon 915 by denying Holy Communion to pro-abortion politicians. But I think that the problem is that A) they have forgotten who they are, as the miracle-working successors to the Apostles themselves, and B) they are weak because their flocks are not paying and sacrificing for them.

Honestly and truly, if we are to have strength in our prelates, it MUST start with our work in winning graces for them. St. Francis of Assisi is a prime example of this. The pope had a dream of Francis holding up the crumbling Church, not because St. Francis was admonishing those who weren’t maintaining the faith, but because his extreme poverty, fasting, and prayers were winning the graces to Hold the Church up!

Yes, many of our prelates are asleep at the wheel, but we can’t help them unless we are fasting and praying for them! This is where it begins! This is where it MUST begin! And though we MUST work to correct scandal, more importantly, we MUST win graces for our shepherds!

Excellent post. Thank you for reminding us that just as the Israelites had to physically hold up Moses’ arms, so we must spiritually hold up the arms of our priests and bishops. We must always remember that human beings are not our enemy, that Satan is our enemy. Our priests and bishops are constantly being assailed, and unfortunately, far too many do fall off the spiritual track.

Yes, let’s remember to always pray for them and yes, fast for them. Thank you.

 

[qui_est_ce]

Yes, many of our prelates are asleep at the wheel, but we can’t help them unless we are fasting and praying for them! This is where it begins! This is where it MUST begin! And though we MUST work to correct scandal, more importantly, we MUST win graces for our shepherds!

What a nice ending!

 

[catharina]

Yikes, these postings have gone on since the dawn of time! It must be obvious to everyone that this is all a war of words. So much hostility!

Catharina, my sister, if you believe in your heart what you are saying is true and others are wrong, then pray for them. I do indeed. We will all stand before our Lord and Master, Jesus Christ some day, let Him have the last word. He does, of course! I am sure you already know that we will all be accountable for everything we have said and done to our brethern, especially when it is done with anger. When Catholics attack priests and bishops with judgmental terms and tones, I get angry. My hope is that Our Lord can/will see it as justifiable anger in defense of the Faith. Better I should defend shepherds than abuse them. There is so much turmoil in the world right now and satan is doing everything in his power to put brother against brother and sister against sister. Let’s not let him win this battle.

 

[catharina]

The problem is, we allowed ourselves to get embroiled in this little word game.

I say, “Fr. Pfleger made a heretical statement. He apologized for I know not what. In his statement he reiterated his belief in women ordination.” Is Fr. "Pfleger a heretic? Not my call. Did he say something heretical? YES. Is he behaving in a heretical way? YES.

Next time we see these schizophrenic self-important rants, we’ll learn to discuss with people whose posts we understand.

Most of us have been quite charitable and patient.

If it’s a wordgame for you, that’s you.

For me it’s a defense of Church Teaching and Tradition. Catholics are NOT called to attack the reputations of bishops in the public arena - nor of priests, for that matter. If that’s your thing, go for it. If I see it again, you can be certain I’ll do what I can to defuse it.

The unbridled angry and disrespect of many to Cardinal George is NOT self-important?
Sure. No problem. Of course.

NOT.

 

[Mimi]

post #44 (in part):

I’m glad somebody said it. Also what would you call the woman priest? Mother? Is Mary already not the Mother of the Church? Sounds like a bunch of contradictions when you really start to think about it. It seems like there is really not a whole lot of thought put into this argument.

[Just jumping in here. Don’t know if I care to read the rest of this thread after the page I jumped from.]

I met a local female Episcopalian cleric. She commented, “I’m Rev. G., but I’m not a priest”.
I thought, “O-o-kay; what ARE you then?”

A short book on this I found a couple years ago is by William Oddie:
What Will Happen To God? Feminism and the Reconstruction of Christian Belief

I got mine at Alibris used books; there are a few available for less than $5.00 at the time I write this. I should warn readers about the cover art, but it does convey an idea behind the title. It’s of a nude woman crucified. Ya talk about Heretical!!

Pray for our priests, bishops, women religious, and our Pope!

Mimi

 

[Ignatius]

And when did . . . .merely advocating for women priests is Heretical? .

About 30 A.D. when Jesus established The Church. The Faith of God does not have priestesses; Neither in the Catholic Church nor in the Jewish faith before it.

 

[Roy5]

I haven’t read all the postings, but here a couple of comments.

1. The snippets I saw of Fr. Pfleger during the 2008 presidential campaign made him look like a wild man. Then, again, he was preaching to a Black congregation where the style of preaching is likely to be far more vigorous and, at times, even incendiary. 

 2. He must have done some admirable things in order to be honored. I would want to know far more than I know before making any judgment.

 3. I also believe that the Catholic Church should have room for a wide variety of priests with various opinions. 

 4. Now as for women priests, I favor it. Protestants now have many thousands of women pastors, and most of them seem to work out. Here in this community there are women ministers serving in Methodist, Episcopalian, Lutheran, Congregationalist (UCC) and perhaps other churches. They vary in their personalities, preaching abilities, etc., but they all seem to be capable and well-respected.

 5. Lots of Americans were annoyed when the amendment was passed permitting women to vote. Now we look back and wonder why it took so long.

 6. The record of Catholicism re women is mixed. There are many women saints, most of them (as I recall) virgins. But the church is run by males, most of the top ones old males, and in this era of women's right there is something unseemly and even embarrassing when one sees a long line of these men processing into some special event. Statistics suggests that women are likely to be far more supportive of the church than men are. 

 7. Women played such an important role during the life of Jesus, whether his mother Mary, Mary Magdalene, the other Mary, and others. 

 8. I've read that before Vatican II women were even more restricted in the church than they are today. It's time to take additional steps toward gender equality. The argument that Jesus only called men as his disciples has some weight, but that was a different era and a different culture.