Francis, Fatima and the End of the World

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Edward_Henry said:
Once again, I do not believe that we are talking about God’s final triumph nor last Judgment here, although you seem to be. When Our Lady announced "my Immaculate Heart will triumph" at Fatima, she never suggested nor mentioned the Final Judgment. That is why we have repeatedly made the distinction between* “end of an era”* vs. *“end of the world.” *
We are dealing with Marian prophecy and you are counteracting with Catechism and Bible end time prophecy. Respectfully, I believe we are dealing with two different kinds of divine interventions in Salvation History.
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With all due respect to you both, I think you are both missing the point:

Our Lady is prophesied to crush Satan. To CRUSH SATAN (this is very satisfying if we say it enough times to pinch ourselves awake). Our Lady, the New Eve, will crush the head of Satan with her heel.

So this does not mean a return of Satan. Because if Satan is crushed then Satan is crushed. He is not going to come back. He can’t.

The triumph of Our Lord will come via the perfect discipleship of Our lady and those who put their lives in her hands. Devotion to Our Lady and appeal to her Immaculate Heart.

Satan feeds of the fear of others and drives their bitterness and hatred. Without fear and hate he is destroyed. Because ultimately he is empty.

'Song of Songs - 6:10-11’:

‘Who is this arising like the dawn, fair as the moon, resplendent as the sun, terrible as an army with banners!’

Ave Maria!
 
One other thought. The devil and our Creator are not equal. So in knowing this, the question arises, that after Satan is defeated could evil still exist in the hearts and minds of men. I’d guess that temptations would cease dramatically but that healing would still need to happen, due to the psychological trauma caused in the history of mankind and chaos caused by the fall, but because faith would reach the masses and there truly would be no place where the Church would not reach, with no devil to hinder, this healing would happen in relatively short time, through the generations.
 
friardchips said:
One other thought. The devil and our Creator are not equal. So in knowing this, the question arises, that after Satan is defeated could evil still exist in the hearts and minds of men. I’d guess that temptations would cease dramatically but that healing would still need to happen, due to the psychological trauma caused in the history of mankind and chaos caused by the fall, but because faith would reach the masses and there truly would be no place where the Church would not reach, with no devil to hinder, this healing would happen in relatively short time, through the generations.
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Exactly! The bible says that good and evil exist until the end of this world. Satan has already been defeated,friardchips. Jesus sacrifice on the cross accomplished that and we are just waiting for the final number of martyrs for the faith to be achieved.

Mary’s “yes” to God and her obedience started the beginning of salvation history. God wanted a human creature to assent with free will. Mary is the epitome of a Christian.a model of faith, She was sinless as her will always aligned with God’s. If we follow her example of humility and obedience we can never go wrong. How can anyone not love the Mother of God?

After this world ends we will all receive our glorified bodies and inherit the kingdom prepared for us before the beginning. Be watchful and careful because FIRST the antichrist system and world teacher will appear to offer the world an apparent solution to all its problem.The price of accepting this system is apostasy from the truth and taking the mark of the beast on your hand or forehead.
 
Edward_Henry said:
Once again, I do not believe that we are talking about God’s final triumph nor last Judgment here, although you seem to be. When Our Lady announced "my Immaculate Heart will triumph" at Fatima, she never suggested nor mentioned the Final Judgment. That is why we have repeatedly made the distinction between* “end of an era”* vs. *“end of the world.” *
We are dealing with Marian prophecy and you are counteracting with Catechism and Bible end time prophecy. Respectfully, I believe we are dealing with two different kinds of divine interventions in Salvation History.
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Both sister Lucy of Fatima and St Faustina have said we are already IN the end times.This is the final decisive battle. Of course we have been since the Great Sacrifice of Jesus on the cross.

The world teacher(Maitreya) will soon appear and offer our world an apparent solution to our problems,but the price will be apostasy and the road to destruction.
 
friardchips said:
With all due respect to you both, I think you are both missing the point:

Our Lady is prophesied to crush Satan. To CRUSH SATAN (this is very satisfying if we say it enough times to pinch ourselves awake). Our Lady, the New Eve, will crush the head of Satan with her heel.

So this does not mean a return of Satan. Because if Satan is crushed then Satan is crushed. He is not going to come back. He can’t.

The triumph of Our Lord will come via the perfect discipleship of Our lady and those who put their lives in her hands. Devotion to Our Lady and appeal to her Immaculate Heart.

Satan feeds of the fear of others and drives their bitterness and hatred. Without fear and hate he is destroyed. Because ultimately he is empty.

'Song of Songs - 6:10-11’:

‘Who is this arising like the dawn, fair as the moon, resplendent as the sun, terrible as an army with banners!’

Ave Maria!
Click to expand...
Mary has already crushed Satans head. He was defeated with Jesus sacrifice. Mary played a role in this by her free will.She gave assent to bear Jesus Christ,our redeemer.Her “yes” undid the knot of Eves disobedience. Satan IS crushed.he has no power over believers.
 
Satan and his evil spirits are running rampant in the world today, you can see it everyday everything you watch the news, open a paper etc. Please Jesus come soon and save us from the evils that is happening around us, at present there is a same sex marriage refer ending in my country and if passed will be the beginning of the end I fear. Last year the government pushed abortion to be legalised satan is well and truly at work here attacking God and His commandments
 
At the point of Our Lady’s fiat, the beginning of salvation history became a possibility, or the plan for Salvation began in history, as Our Lady is the New Eve through her unselfish choice - opposite to the original Eve (I like what you said about undoing knots); after the Death and Resurrection, salvation history came to be and Satan lost - through Our Lady’s fiat, the Will of the Father was established on earth and came to be through the perfect discipleship of Our Lady, and the sacrifice of her Son leading to His Resurrection.

From the power of the Resurrection, the defeat of Satan was accomplished but still to be realised and fulfilled during the course of salvation history that all souls could now inherit their reward as made possible from the Cross, and Our Lady’s discipleship, so through the power of the resurrection we are also responsible for each other’s salvation - to help towards the salvific power of the Ressurection being realised in people’s lives. This leads us on to this:

Our Lady is the Immaculate Conception.

Our Lady trod on the head of the snake as she undid the selfishness of Eve who chose instead to listen to the Satan, but still, the fulfillment of this treading takes place over the course of salvation history. We have the choice, the act and the consequence. So Our Lady trod on the snake, but this treading is fulfilled, with our co-operation, over the duration of time, and is thus revealed over time via the growth in understanding and reach of the Church to whom Our Lady is Mother. By devotion to Our Lady the devil is once and for all destroyed and it is through her intercession alone that this will be and is already in progress thanks to her life on earth and commitment to her adopted children as the Mother and Help of all Christians, from Heaven.

The devil has not been destroyed yet. He has lost the battle for souls. But he still has limited power to tempt us away from our Creator. So in the long-run we can say he has been destroyed, but this Victory although won on the Cross, is still unravelling through the power of the Resurrection, in time. And Satan knows his time is up soon. So he is waging an all out battle. The way we win, which has already been Willed, is through devotion to Our Lady and appeal to her Immaculate Heart ,and therefore, to the Merciful Heart of Our Lord and Saviour. At the end of time, the fulfillment of the destruction of Satan and his demons will come to pass and they will be in Hell with no escape ever - the Second Coming and the final realisation of the crushing of Satan, by Our Lady, through the power of her Son’s Resurrection. This is not the same as the effects of fallen creation after Satan’s demise. My question was that after Satan is locked in Hell forever and his demons too, can evil still exist on earth. How long will healing take place or will it be instant.

Thank you for your post and for nudging me to scrutinize more accurately this understanding - it has reminded me about the importance of being docile to our Creator. I mean that sincerely, CjforJ!
 
So Edward Henry O.P, what say thee?:

Our Lady’s “yes”.
Birth, Death and Resurrection.
SALVATION HISTORY.
Growth of Church.
Age of (deepened knowledge of) Mercy,
thanks to Our Lady’s appeals.
End of Times (Satan’s Last stand).
Satan destroyed.
Era of healing?!
Second Coming.

or:

Our Lady’s “yes”.
Birth, Death and Resurrection.
SALVATION HISTORY.
Growth of Church.
Era of mercy, thanks to Our Lady’s appeals.
End of Times (Satan’s Last stand).
Second Coming (Satan destroyed).

🙂
 
friardchips said:
At the point of Our Lady’s fiat, the beginning of salvation history became a possibility, or the plan for Salvation began in history, as Our Lady is the New Eve through her unselfish choice - opposite to the original Eve (I like what you said about undoing knots); after the Death and Resurrection, salvation history came to be and Satan lost - through Our Lady’s fiat, the Will of the Father was established on earth and came to be through the perfect discipleship of Our Lady, and the sacrifice of her Son leading to His Resurrection.

From the power of the Resurrection, the defeat of Satan was accomplished but still to be realised and fulfilled during the course of salvation history that all souls could now inherit their reward as made possible from the Cross, and Our Lady’s discipleship, so through the power of the resurrection we are also responsible for each other’s salvation - to help towards the salvific power of the Ressurection being realised in people’s lives. This leads us on to this:

Our Lady is the Immaculate Conception.

Our Lady trod on the head of the snake as she undid the selfishness of Eve who chose instead to listen to the Satan, but still, the fulfillment of this treading takes place over the course of salvation history. We have the choice, the act and the consequence. So Our Lady trod on the snake, but this treading is fulfilled, with our co-operation, over the duration of time, and is thus revealed over time via the growth in understanding and reach of the Church to whom Our Lady is Mother. By devotion to Our Lady the devil is once and for all destroyed and it is through her intercession alone that this will be and is already in progress thanks to her life on earth and commitment to her adopted children as the Mother and Help of all Christians, from Heaven.

The devil has not been destroyed yet. He has lost the battle for souls. But he still has limited power to tempt us away from our Creator. So in the long-run we can say he has been destroyed, but this Victory although won on the Cross, is still unravelling through the power of the Resurrection, in time. And Satan knows his time is up soon. So he is waging an all out battle. The way we win, which has already been Willed, is through devotion to Our Lady and appeal to her Immaculate Heart ,and therefore, to the Merciful Heart of Our Lord and Saviour. At the end of time, the fulfillment of the destruction of Satan and his demons will come to pass and they will be in Hell with no escape ever - the Second Coming and the final realisation of the crushing of Satan, by Our Lady, through the power of her Son’s Resurrection. This is not the same as the effects of fallen creation after Satan’s demise. My question was that after Satan is locked in Hell forever and his demons too, can evil still exist on earth. How long will healing take place or will it be instant.

Thank you for your post and for nudging me to scrutinize more accurately this understanding - it has reminded me about the importance of being docile to our Creator. I mean that sincerely, CjforJ!
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I believe some of what you state may be theologically incorrect. Jesus said from the cross “It is finished”.Satan has been defeated and we are waiting for the final count of martyrs for the faith.Jesus told St Faustina that we are IN the age of mercy and those who do not accept His mercy must pass through the time of judgement.

The Immaculate Heart is just one refuge from the world as Jesus said also that the Cross and His Sacred Heart are refuges.

Satan has been defeated and according to the Church we are in the thousand year reign of Jesus. When He rose from the dead recall that many saints were also seen who had died.

The triumph of Mary and the age of Mary as predicted by Demontfort has occurred.It began with St Catherine I beleive and has carried through with two very Marian Popes.

You can keep waiting for some utopia or new world order but the bible says nothing except that Jesus will return with the hosts of heaven and ALL will know He is God.
 
cjforJesus said:
I believe some of what you state may be theologically incorrect. Jesus said from the cross “It is finished”.Satan has been defeated and we are waiting for the final count of martyrs for the faith.Jesus told St Faustina that we are IN the age of mercy and those who do not accept His mercy must pass through the time of judgement.
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So you think that the Age of Mercy is during the End Times? I am not disagreeing., necessarily.

It is understood that the fulfillment of Scripture (Revelation) is realised through time so that we participate in the growth of the Church. Although the evil one is defeated, he can still lure others (which is what you kind of said) as he waits for his end. So, IOW, the treading of Satan is being realised also through time, as we him shake him off and lead others away from him, until he is once and for all sent back to Hell with his companions, despite the fact that the process has already been put into being, and thanks to, two-odd thousand years ago.
The Immaculate Heart is just one refuge from the world as Jesus said also that the Cross and His Sacred Heart are refuges.
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I was watching films about St. Faustina the other day. I think it might be well to note here that out of all the convents that St. Faustina attempted to enter, the one in which she was accepted was called: The Congregation of the Sisters of Our Lady of Mercy. IOW, this wonderous saint came to be so holy, I believe, through the holy intercession of our Holy Mother, who kept her close. Through understanding this all are led to the heart of her Son. Whether it be the Divine Mercy Chaplet or the Rosary. St. Faustina was dedicated to our Holy Mother. Our Lady being revealed as the Immaculate Conception was very important for the Church.
Satan has been defeated and according to the Church we are in the thousand year reign of Jesus. When He rose from the dead recall that many saints were also seen who had died.
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Again, satan has been defeated but is to be locked up in Hell forever after at the End. satan is panicking because Revelation at some point is to be fullfilled through the witness of the Church.
The triumph of Mary and the age of Mary as predicted by Demontfort has occurred.It began with St Catherine I beleive and has carried through with two very Marian Popes.
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It continues as knowledge of our Lady’s Queenship spreads. All Popes I think have been Marian. Especially relevent are the Popes since and around Vatican II: St. Pope John XXIII, Pope Paul VI, St. Pope John Paul II, Pope Benedict XVI and Pope Francis.

In terms of an era, as has been mentioned, I would liken this era to the Second Vatican Council and ever since. Maybe this era is at the same time as the last stand of the evil one. Maybe his last stand is to come. Maybe it is about to pass.

Hence, the point made by the OP concerning 1917.
You can keep waiting for some utopia or new world order but the bible says nothing except that Jesus will return with the hosts of heaven and ALL will know He is God.
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True. Maybe a utopia won’t come and it will just be the end. I’m not waiting for such, particularly. I’m not about to make predictions on a public forum and it wouldn’t make any difference to anything anyway. But I think there is more to come, for good and bad; I hope for good! 😉
 
This is why St. J P II quoted St. Peter about the devil prowling around like a roaring lion and Pope Francis is often speaking concerning the devil and why there are exorcisms and why the Vatican has exorcists.

Thankfully, all can be entrusted into our Holy Mother’s Immaculate Heart, that she might and will break any remaining chains to satan in our own lives, and around us, through the dispensation of graces, as we accept her as our own Mother at the behest of Our Lord when He was dying on the Cross.
 
friardchips said:
St. Faustina was dedicated to our Holy Mother. Our Lady being revealed as the Immaculate Conception was very important for the Church.
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Lourdes - the revealing of Our Lady being the Immaculate Conception and further encouraging the praying of the Rosary, Fatima - an appeal to pray to her Son for His Mercy and for sinners and further encouragement of the Rosary, and then St. Faustina’s messages from Our Lord calling all to His Divine Mercy at The Congregation of the Sisters of Our Lady of Mercy, especially “for poor sinners”, are all very important events and relevant for the Church, even today, especially when we consider the amazing gift of Vatican II and our succession of saintly Popes listed previously, up to and including our present Holy Father, who continually speaks of mercy.
 
friardchips said:
Lourdes - the revealing of Our Lady being the Immaculate Conception and further encouraging the praying of the Rosary, Fatima - an appeal to pray to her Son for His Mercy and for sinners and further encouragement of the Rosary, and then St. Faustina’s messages from Our Lord calling all to His Divine Mercy at The Congregation of the Sisters of Our Lady of Mercy, especially “for poor sinners”, are all very important events and relevant for the Church, even today, especially when we consider the amazing gift of Vatican II and our succession of saintly Popes listed previously, up to and including our present Holy Father, who continually speaks of mercy.
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Immaculate Conception means by a singular grace from God,Mary was conceived without the stain of original sin. The Church also teaches that Mary was without any sin her entire life.She is the model of the Church and how to live a holy life in obedience to God.

Mary is our Blessed Mother but the Holy Church is also our mother. Mary would never say or do anything to contradict the magisterium or sacred tradition.
 
friardchips said:
This is why St. J P II quoted St. Peter about the devil prowling around like a roaring lion and Pope Francis is often speaking concerning the devil and why there are exorcisms and why the Vatican has exorcists.

Thankfully, all can be entrusted into our Holy Mother’s Immaculate Heart, that she might and will break any remaining chains to satan in our own lives, and around us, through the dispensation of graces, as we accept her as our own Mother at the behest of Our Lord when He was dying on the Cross.
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Thankfully satan has no power over us though he is allowed to tempt us.Know though that with every temptation there is an alternative.We have free will.
 
cjforJ…

There is no contradiction. Our Lady is the Mother of the Church. Mother of Christians. Our Mother.

Our Lady’s spiritual womb is the Ark, in which we are moulded, and we are to be moulded in her, like her, in order to become perfect disciples like her Son (as saints). The Church is ‘she’ because ‘she’, us, make up the body - as the Bride - and He, Our Lord, as the Head - the Groom.

People often refer to the Church as Holy Mother Church. No contradiction.
 
friardchips said:
cjforJ…

There is no contradiction. Our Lady is the Mother of the Church. Mother of Christians. Our Mother.

Our Lady’s spiritual womb is the Ark, in which we are moulded, and we are to be moulded in her, like her, in order to become perfect disciples like her Son (as saints). The Church is ‘she’ because ‘she’, us, make up the body - as the Bride - and He, Our Lord, as the Head - the Groom.

People often refer to the Church as Holy Mother Church. No contradiction.
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Friardchips,I do not know that you are stating a belief of the Church. We are not moulded in Mary as far as I know.We ask for her intercession from time to time and request her prayers. She cannot violate our free will either. Mary is not a goddess or anything and the Church only allows great veneration of her. Jesus was not a disciple or saint! He is God incarnate!

Grace comes from God alone though Mary and the saints are powerful intercessors and they do distribute graces as God sees fit. Mary is our mother and Queen of heaven though we strive to be like her in obedience and purity she cannot mould us into anything. We have free will and God does not violate that.
 
friardchips said:
Indeed we do. 🙂
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Maybe this paragraph from the catechism will help explain how Catholics view and venerate Mary.

DEVOTION TO THE BLESSED VIRGIN

971 “All generations will call me blessed”: "The Church’s devotion to the Blessed Virgin is intrinsic to Christian worship."515 The Church rightly honors "the Blessed Virgin with special devotion. From the most ancient times the Blessed Virgin has been honored with the title of ‘Mother of God,’ to whose protection the faithful fly in all their dangers and needs. . . . This very special devotion . . . differs essentially from the adoration which is given to the incarnate Word and equally to the Father and the Holy Spirit, and greatly fosters this adoration."516 The liturgical feasts dedicated to the Mother of God and Marian prayer, such as the rosary, an “epitome of the whole Gospel,” express this devotion to the Virgin Mary.517
 
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