Free Will in the Westminster Confession of Faith

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Vonsalza said:
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SojournerOnEarth:
They are punished for their own sins. Each would have eaten the fruit in the garden.
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Unjust.
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Everything God does is good and right and just.

If you want to blaspheme, that is up to you. Blasphemy is a sin, by the way.
 
SojournerOnEarth said:
You know better than that. You did it when Adam did it. Apparently federal headship is something you missed.

Catholics believe in the fall, and in original sin. Did you know that?
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Yup. But we don’t believe in federal headship as presented by Calvinist theologians.
 
Vonsalza said:
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SojournerOnEarth:
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Vonsalza:
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SojournerOnEarth:
They are punished for their own sins. Each would have eaten the fruit in the garden.
Click to expand...
Unjust.
Click to expand...
Everything God does is good and right and just.

If you want to blaspheme, that is up to you. Blasphemy is a sin, by the way.
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Then per your logic, Calvinism is blasphemous because it makes God capricious.

😆
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Not at all. And it is not something to laugh about. Shame on you.
 
Vonsalza said:
40.png
SojournerOnEarth:
You know better than that. You did it when Adam did it. Apparently federal headship is something you missed.

Catholics believe in the fall, and in original sin. Did you know that?
Click to expand...
Yup. But we don’t believe in federal headship as presented by Calvinist theologians.
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I doubt you understand either well enough to be able to make that statement credibly.
 
SojournerOnEarth said:
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Vonsalza:
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SojournerOnEarth:
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Vonsalza:
40.png
SojournerOnEarth:
They are punished for their own sins. Each would have eaten the fruit in the garden.
Click to expand...
Unjust.
Click to expand...
Everything God does is good and right and just.

If you want to blaspheme, that is up to you. Blasphemy is a sin, by the way.
Click to expand...
Then per your logic, Calvinism is blasphemous because it makes God capricious.

😆
Click to expand...
Not at all. And it is not something to laugh about. Shame on you.
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Any theologian that presents a capricious God is truly a comedian of error.

Thus I carry my “shame” gladly.
 
SojournerOnEarth said:
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Vonsalza:
40.png
SojournerOnEarth:
You know better than that. You did it when Adam did it. Apparently federal headship is something you missed.

Catholics believe in the fall, and in original sin. Did you know that?
Click to expand...
Yup. But we don’t believe in federal headship as presented by Calvinist theologians.
Click to expand...
I doubt you understand either well enough to be able to make that statement credibly.
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From the catechism;
405 Although it is proper to each individual,295 original sin does not have the character of a personal fault in any of Adam’s descendants. It is a deprivation of original holiness and justice, but human nature has not been totally corrupted: it is wounded in the natural powers proper to it, subject to ignorance, suffering and the dominion of death, and inclined to sin - an inclination to evil that is called concupiscence". Baptism, by imparting the life of Christ’s grace, erases original sin and turns a man back towards God, but the consequences for nature, weakened and inclined to evil, persist in man and summon him to spiritual battle.
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So in your non-capricious system, what makes one person choose God and another reject Him?
 
Free will is just sort of out there, unattached to reason, floating around, some days wanting to do one thing, other days another?

And you think GOD is capricious.
 
SojournerOnEarth said:
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Vonsalza:
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SojournerOnEarth:
So in your non-capricious system, what makes one person choose God and another reject Him?
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Free will.
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So is free will capricious? Is it random or something?
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Also from CCC
1730 God created man a rational being, conferring on him the dignity of a person who can initiate and control his own actions. "God willed that man should be ‘left in the hand of his own counsel,’ so that he might of his own accord seek his Creator and freely attain his full and blessed perfection by cleaving to him."26
I. FREEDOM AND RESPONSIBILITY
1731 Freedom is the power, rooted in reason and will, to act or not to act, to do this or that, and so to perform deliberate actions on one’s own responsibility. By free will one shapes one’s own life. Human freedom is a force for growth and maturity in truth and goodness; it attains its perfection when directed toward God, our beatitude.
1732 As long as freedom has not bound itself definitively to its ultimate good which is God, there is the possibility of choosing between good and evil, and thus of growing in perfection or of failing and sinning. This freedom characterizes properly human acts. It is the basis of praise or blame, merit or reproach.
1733 The more one does what is good, the freer one becomes. There is no true freedom except in the service of what is good and just. The choice to disobey and do evil is an abuse of freedom and leads to "the slavery of sin."28
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So you have exchanged the caprice of God, so to speak, with the caprice of man.

Shudder.
 
SojournerOnEarth said:
So you have exchanged the caprice of God, so to speak, with the caprice of man.

Shudder.
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Did you miss the word “reason” there in line 1731?

And if one were to be capricious, I’d WAY MORE want it to be man rather than the Author of All Things.

Most definitely.
 
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I did not miss it.

The point stands. Caprice of man, you think, is better than the sovereign election of God.
 
Vonsalza said:
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SojournerOnEarth:
So you have exchanged the caprice of God, so to speak, with the caprice of man.

Shudder.
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Did you miss the word “reason” there in line 1731?

And if one were to be capricious, I’d WAY MORE want it to be man rather than the Author of All Things.

Most definitely.
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God is good, awesome, holy, righteous and loving. Think what you are saying: you are saying you are better than He is. Do you mean that?
 
SojournerOnEarth said:
I did not miss it.

The point stands. Caprice of man, you think, is better than the sovereign election of God.
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No. You’re mischaracterizing, as you are want to do.

Caprice of man is better than caprice of God. Even though the catechism indicates that there is an absence of that quality in either option, so it’s an irrelevant point…
 
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SojournerOnEarth said:
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Vonsalza:
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SojournerOnEarth:
So you have exchanged the caprice of God, so to speak, with the caprice of man.

Shudder.
Click to expand...
Did you miss the word “reason” there in line 1731?

And if one were to be capricious, I’d WAY MORE want it to be man rather than the Author of All Things.

Most definitely.
Click to expand...
God is good, awesome, holy, righteous and loving. Think what you are saying: you are saying you are better than He is. Do you mean that?
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I’m not saying that at all.

I think I’ve made a good point and you’re looking for a place to fall-back to in order to regroup your argument…
 
SojournerOnEarth said:
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Vonsalza:
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SojournerOnEarth:
I did not miss it.

The point stands. Caprice of man, you think, is better than the sovereign election of God.
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No. You’re mischaracterizing, as you are want to do.
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Your specialty, not mine.
Caprice of man is better than caprice of God.
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Bizarre idea.
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Assuming capriciousness is bad, I’d rather it describe man than God.

Not so odd…

Even though, again, neither is capricious. That’s like the 3rd time I’ve typed it I think…
 
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