Freemasons?

[Edward_Henry]

No, you’ve convinced me with your divine knowledge that there is a huge, world wide conspiracy that involves every single orginization from the “Masons” to “Wal Mart” that controls everything.

I see the light.

Don’t trust my “divine Knowledge”… Read the Encyclical!

 

[Rascalking]

Don’t trust my “divine Knowledge”… Read the Encyclical!

Seriously, what’s is with the bold font? What are your trying to do?

 

[Edward_Henry]

Seriously, what’s is with the bold font? What are your trying to do?

There we go, circling again around the real issue. Don’t worry about the messenger’s style… deal with the message! There is an encyclical on the table.

 

[Rascalking]

There we go, circling again around the real issue. Don’t worry about the messenger’s style… deal with the message! There is an encyclical on the table.

Um…yeah. See you at the next lodge meeting.

 

[Edward_Henry]

Um…yeah. See you at the next lodge meeting.

That is exactly the response I expected!

 

[PiousTemplar]

Yeah, I’m not ignorant on the subject. I know something about it from both sides. But whatever, I just think you all are crazy conspiracy theorists. I couldn’t possibly explain my position any better than I have. Ultimately, I don’t care what you think.

That is a really silly assumption. From what I have read of this thread, ‘Edward Henry’ simply put down Catholic sources and a Papal Encyclical, and then repeatedly told you to read them. We as Catholics are to hold the Encyclicals, even when not spoken in ex cathedra, as sufficiently authoritive letters from the Pope. Freemasonry is incompatible with Christianity, therefore it is not from God. Critisizing the Pope’s and the Church’s position on freemasonry with your own opinion on the subject is not something Catholics should be doing.

 

[Rascalking]

That is a really silly assumption. From what I have read of this thread, ‘Edward Henry’ simply put down Catholic sources and a Papal Encyclical, and then repeatedly told you to read them. We as Catholics are to hold the Encyclicals, even when not spoken in ex cathedra, as sufficiently authoritive letters from the Pope. Freemasonry is incompatible with Christianity, therefore it is not from God. Critisizing the Pope’s position on freemasonry with your own opinion on the subject is not something Catholics should be doing.

Please notice that (clearly I don’t speak for NicoleP) neither one of us are saying it’s a good thing to join the Masons. What I am saying (again, I don’t speak for her) is that they are not some worldwide, whacked out conspiracy. They do wonderful things for children and other charities.

I actually think people who are so opposed to them shouldn’t worry-90 percent of them are old men who are in rest homes! When the Shriners close down, childhood burn victims and those who need orthopedic surgeries can either 1) Die or 2) find another place for FREE treatment.

Any suggestions for those kids?

 

[Edward_Henry]

Please notice that (clearly I don’t speak for NicoleP) neither one of us are saying it’s a good thing to join the Masons. What I am saying (again, I don’t speak for her) is that they are not some worldwide, whacked out conspiracy. They do wonderful things for children and other charities.

I actually think people who are so opposed to them shouldn’t worry-90 percent of them are old men who are in rest homes! When the Shriners close down, childhood burn victims and those who need orthopedic surgeries can either 1) Die or 2) find another place for FREE treatment.

Any suggestions for those kids?

Rascalking,
Hi I am also tired of the negative tone that our recent exchange seems to have taken. Yes, I live in society and I read in the newspapers that some *older members *are involved in charity activities. I am sure that some of these individual members do it out of a real interest for the needy. Unfortunatelly, Pope Leo XIII also warned about this in his Encyclical.

http://www.michaeljournal.org/images/Leon-XIII.jpg
POPE’S ENCYCLICAL: "As a convenient manner of concealment, they assume the character of literary men and scholars associated for purposes of learning. They speak of their zeal for a more cultured refinement, and of their love for the poor; and they declare their one wish to be the amelioration of the condition of the masses,…" (Verse 9)

I personally, do not worry about the *public activities *publicly displayed by these older retiring members but about the still continuing *concealed activities *of its younger members. (mostly through the means of communication and in the governamental positions.) I hope this does not offend you.

Peace, I really mean it.

To Jesus through Mary

 

[nicolep]

That is a really silly assumption. From what I have read of this thread, ‘Edward Henry’ simply put down Catholic sources and a Papal Encyclical, and then repeatedly told you to read them. We as Catholics are to hold the Encyclicals, even when not spoken in ex cathedra, as sufficiently authoritive letters from the Pope. Freemasonry is incompatible with Christianity, therefore it is not from God. Critisizing the Pope’s and the Church’s position on freemasonry with your own opinion on the subject is not something Catholics should be doing.

Uh, what are you talking about? I have repeatedly said that we should obey the Church and not join.

 

[nicolep]

Please notice that (clearly I don’t speak for NicoleP) neither one of us are saying it’s a good thing to join the Masons. What I am saying (again, I don’t speak for her) is that they are not some worldwide, whacked out conspiracy. They do wonderful things for children and other charities.

I actually think people who are so opposed to them shouldn’t worry-90 percent of them are old men who are in rest homes! When the Shriners close down, childhood burn victims and those who need orthopedic surgeries can either 1) Die or 2) find another place for FREE treatment.

Any suggestions for those kids?

Yeah, that about sums up my position. Somehow, not hating the Mason means we should join them. I don’t know how others took what we said to get there, but maybe I didn’t express my point well.

 

[nicolep]

Here’s everything I’ve said on the subject. In no way am I saying Catholics should join the lodge or that the Church is wrong.

Literally everyone in my immediate family belongs to the Masonic lodge. None of them worship Lucifer or anything like that. The men are Freemasons. The women belong to the Eastern Star. I’m the only Catholic.

Since I converted to Catholicism, not a single person has tried to hunt me down, etc. The lodge knows where I live and work! They would have plotted my down fall by now.

The way some Catholics react to Freemasons is no different than how anti-Catholic protestants react to us. Pot, meet kettle.

On a side note, no, I don’t belong to the lodge. I’m a female and not forbidden from joining the Eastern Star. I just don’t want to for reasons completely unrelated to religion.

And that proves my previous point. There are some Catholics who treat Freemasons the same way anti-Catholics treat us.

I think we were separated at birth.

My point is that you all take the word of someone else and then listen to no reason. That’s exactly what anti-Catholics do. The other posts have just continued to prove that point.

On here, everyday, I see Catholics telling anti-Catholics to do the research, approach things with an open mind. Research it and make your own decision. Yet, a large number of these same posters refuse to do the same.

Do I take it lightly, yep! There are worse evils in the world than some old men doing charity work.

Think about it this way -

At some point in the Church’s history, some bad men did evil things in an otherwise holy organization. Is it at least possible the Freemasons had some bad men do evil in an otherwise good organization? I’m not saying it’s holy, but those little old dudes DO actually do a lot of charity work.

A Catholic shouldn’t belong to the Masons because the Church says so. However, it doesn’t mean that Catholics have to be so hateful about something they don’t understand.

A little background on me - my entire family belongs to the Masonic lodge (myself excluded, I left before converting to Catholicism because I didn’t enjoy socializing with little, old ladies). I know a thing or two about the lodge. If you want a civil conversation about it, I’m here. I won’t, however, get into a “I’m right and since you’re Catholic you should just agree” debate.

As I told another poster yesterday, this entire thing reeks of ignorance on both sides (the Church and the lodge).

^ This x 10,000,000,000

Yeah, I’m not ignorant on the subject. I know something about it from both sides. But whatever, I just think you all are crazy conspiracy theorists. I couldn’t possibly explain my position any better than I have. Ultimately, I don’t care what you think.

LOL Whatever dude!

Uh, what are you talking about? I have repeatedly said that we should obey the Church and not join.

Yeah, that about sums up my position. Somehow, not hating the Mason means we should join them. I don’t know how others took what we said to get there, but maybe I didn’t express my point well.

 

[Rascalking]

Yeah, that about sums up my position. Somehow, not hating the Mason means we should join them. I don’t know how others took what we said to get there, but maybe I didn’t express my point well.

I think we were both clear on what we believe. It’s out there, let others think what they will.

 

[nicolep]

I think we were both clear on what we believe. It’s out there, let others think what they will.

Agreed. I had stopped following the thread until someone quoted me that wasn’t consistant with what I was saying. Sometimes I wish I could just let things go! I’m going to try my best not to look at this thread again. From here on out, we’re all just beating a dead horse.

 

[Rence]

No, they dont’ worship Lucifer.

I have no idea what they believe.

I think they are old men who do nice things for burned children and kids who need surgery.

That’s true. They do not worship Lucifer. Many are Christians. I had a friend who was a Mason, as was his father before him, they were Baptists. I have another friend who is a Mason, and he is Catholic. They both said Masons welcome all religions and only require that you worship God (he said God, and I"m sure that’s what they mean by their official definition). It doesn’t matter what denomination, all are welcome. They are not allowed to debate about religion as each member’s religion is his own. They do quite a bit of work for the community, and quite a bit of charity work and donations, and always step up when needed. I haven’t one bad thing to say about them. The Masons I know are outstanding people with a heart of gold. The female version is the Eastern Star, and they also do much in the community.

 

[thistle]

That’s true. They do not worship Lucifer. Many are Christians. I had a friend who was a Mason, as was his father before him, they were Baptists. I have another friend who is a Mason, and he is Catholic. They both said Masons welcome all religions and only require that you worship God (he said God, and I"m sure that’s what they mean by their official definition). It doesn’t matter what denomination, all are welcome. They are not allowed to debate about religion as each member’s religion is his own. They do quite a bit of work for the community, and quite a bit of charity work and donations, and always step up when needed. I haven’t one bad thing to say about them. The Masons I know are outstanding people with a heart of gold. The female version is the Eastern Star, and they also do much in the community.

A person CANNOT be Catholic and a Freemason. It is forbidden by the Church.
If a Catholic is a Freemason then they are in a state of mortal sin and cannot receive Communion.

CONGREGATION FOR THE DOCTRINE OF THE FAITH

DECLARATION ON MASONIC ASSOCIATIONS

It has been asked whether there has been any change in the Church’s decision in regard to Masonic associations since the new Code of Canon Law does not mention them expressly, unlike the previous Code.

This Sacred Congregation is in a position to reply that this circumstance in due to an editorial criterion which was followed also in the case of other associations likewise unmentioned inasmuch as they are contained in wider categories.

Therefore the Church’s negative judgment in regard to Masonic association remains unchanged since their principles have always been considered irreconcilable with the doctrine of the Church and therefore membership in them remains forbidden. The faithful who enrol in Masonic associations are in a state of grave sin and may not receive Holy Communion.

It is not within the competence of local ecclesiastical authorities to give a judgment on the nature of Masonic associations which would imply a derogation from what has been decided above, and this in line with the Declaration of this Sacred Congregation issued on 17 February 1981 (cf. AAS 73 1981 pp. 240-241; English language edition of L’Osservatore Romano, 9 March 1981).

In an audience granted to the undersigned Cardinal Prefect, the Supreme Pontiff John Paul II approved and ordered the publication of this Declaration which had been decided in an ordinary meeting of this Sacred Congregation.

Rome, from the Office of the Sacred Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, 26 November 1983.

Joseph Card. RATZINGER
Prefect

• Fr. Jerome Hamer, O.P.
  Titular Archbishop of Lorium
  Secretary

 

[Sonic]

In defense of those Catholics who have joined the Freemasons, many are misinformed or mislead by their own sources.

Here is an article that was posted in another topic recently:

mastermason.com/brothergene/education/humanum_genus_comments.htm

Now examine the Encyclical Humanun Genus for the citations attributed to Pope Leo XIII:

vatican.va/holy_father/leo_xiii/encyclicals/documents/hf_l-xiii_enc_18840420_humanum-genus_en.html

Notice anything about the alleged quotes made by Leo XIII in the link above? The quotes are not in Humanum Genus.

Unfortunately, this controversial topic often results in what has come to be known as the The Backfire Effect (due to the vast amount of information available on the internet).

youarenotsosmart.com/2011/06/10/the-backfire-effect/

All I can say is check any sources for their validity and never accept anything on this subject at face value. You may just get hoodwinked if you don’t].

 

[The_Rock]

To learn the truth about Freemasonry, and the theological reasons why the Church (including 12 Popes) has spoken out against Freemasonry, please listen to former 32nd degree Freemason in the Scottish Rite of Freemasonry and former Shriner John Salza speek about why Freemasonry is incompatible with Christianity.

John is a premier Catholic apologist. He has appeared on Searching the Word, The Drew Mariani Show, Kresta in the Afternoon, Sacred Heart Radio, Catholic Answers Live, Relevant Radio, EWTN and EWTN Radio. He gives rational explinations of the true nature of Freemasonry from a Catholic perspective and from the perpective of a former Freemason who actually taught the “craft”.

Here is his site:
scripturecatholic.com/john_salza.html

Here are his dialogues with masons dealing with many of the issues raised on this thread:

scripturecatholic.com/freemasonry_qa.html#scripture-I

For a 4 part video interview with John from EWTN click on these links:

youtube.com/watch?v=MLzWXDfABJU

youtube.com/watch?v=UrXBtKoEEmo&feature=mfu_in_order&list=UL

youtube.com/watch?v=l8WT6UsqK-0&feature=autoplay&list=ULfquuDt8__EI&index=7&playnext=1

youtube.com/watch?v=DdTfyaaXaNI&feature=BFa&list=ULfquuDt8__EI&index=8

 

[Edward_Henry]

To learn the truth about Freemasonry, and the theological reasons why the Church (including 12 Popes) has spoken out against Freemasonry, please listen to former 32nd degree Freemason in the Scottish Rite of Freemasonry and former Shriner John Salza speek about why Freemasonry is incompatible with Christianity.

John is a premier Catholic apologist. He has appeared on Searching the Word, The Drew Mariani Show, Kresta in the Afternoon, Sacred Heart Radio, Catholic Answers Live, Relevant Radio, EWTN and EWTN Radio. He gives rational explinations of the true nature of Freemasonry from a Catholic perspective and from the perpective of a former Freemason who actually taught the “craft”.

Here is his site:
scripturecatholic.com/john_salza.html

Here are his dialogues with masons dealing with many of the issues raised on this thread:

scripturecatholic.com/freemasonry_qa.html#scripture-I

For a 4 part video interview with John from EWTN click on these links:

youtube.com/watch?v=MLzWXDfABJU

youtube.com/watch?v=UrXBtKoEEmo&feature=mfu_in_order&list=UL

youtube.com/watch?v=l8WT6UsqK-0&feature=autoplay&list=ULfquuDt8__EI&index=7&playnext=1

youtube.com/watch?v=DdTfyaaXaNI&feature=BFa&list=ULfquuDt8__EI&index=8

Thank you so much!

 

[Brother_Steve]

Rascalking,
I personally, do not worry about the *public activities *publicly displayed by these older retiring members but about the still continuing *concealed activities *of its younger members. (mostly through the means of communication and in the governamental positions.) I hope this does not offend you.

:

If they are concealed how can you prove that any of these activities are taking place.
If they are concealed, why is it that everything they do is voted on in open session with the general membership?

 

[Brother_Steve]

To learn the truth about Freemasonry, and the theological reasons why the Church (including 12 Popes) has spoken out against Freemasonry, please listen to former 32nd degree Freemason in the Scottish Rite of Freemasonry and former Shriner John Salza speek about why Freemasonry is incompatible with Christianity.

Since I am emailing back and forth with John on this point, I would say why ask john at all?
Why not ask the Masons what they have to say for themselves?
John sad to say uses poor logic and bad information to make his points.
From what I can see its like asking Loraine Bottner what the Catholics really believe.