Freemasons

[thistle]

Email is fine, problems on the net, computer does not stay on line long enough to call up any sites, It can take upto 20-minutes by which time my phone line loses the connection-outstanding problem with BT.I think, dont really understand this technology!!

Someone suggested that freemasonry ‘plots against the church’,. I have taken the trouble to go to a freemasonry lodge and ask. They were hysterical with laughter.

I shall write to His Holiness and ask if being a freemason is as has beed suggested, so serious that it is on a par with willful murder and forbidden by the Church. I shall ask why Peers of the English Realm are given special dispensation…I will get back to you with the response. If his Holiness says that it is forbidden, I shall publicly apologise on this thread.

God be with you

“Someone” is the Pope, in fact several Popes.

Are you really telling us that the documented evidence presented to you from Pope Leo XIII, Cardinal Ratzinger (now Pope Benedict XVI), and Canon Law is not sufficient proof for you.

Your opinion on the Freemasons is TOTALLY IRRELEVANT. Its not what they tell that matters. You have to accept and obey the teachings of the Church (not the Freemasons) otherwise you will become one of the cafeteria Catholics who pick and choose what they want to believe and endanger your soul.

Do you believe deliberately missing Mass is a grave sin or do you have to hear it from the Pope’s mouth?

If by His Holiness you mean our present Pope he has already publicly stated (when he was Cardinal Ratzinger) it is forbidden to join the Freemasons. Are you calling him a liar?

 

[marty54]

Why does Cardinal Ratzinger now Pope still hold dialogue with the English Protestant Church whose head is the queen and who happens to be the head of Freemasonary in UK.?
Please do answer this quetion rather than going all philosophical and theological about it, please be simple in your answer (I’m a simple person)

 

[Karin]

Why does Cardinal Ratzinger now Pope still hold dialogue with the English Protestant Church whose head is the queen and who happens to be the head of Freemasonary in UK.?
Please do answer this quetion rather than going all philosophical and theological about it, please be simple in your answer (I’m a simple person)

what does this have to do with anything? The Queen can not be a FreeMason for the simple fact that she is a woman…the Freemasons are for MEN ONLY!
And if the Pope is talking with them…so what? Is he looking to join them …dont think so

 

[fix]

Well it may not sound the same but it is.

Mortal sin is not on a graduated scale. A sin is either venial or it is mortal. Murder is mortal, missing mass is mortal, therefore by definition someone who willfully kills another is at most no more guilty than someone who intentionally misses mass on Sunday, I think that is where your logic is taking you

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1858

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Grave matter is specified by the Ten Commandments, corresponding to the answer of Jesus to the rich young man: “Do not kill, Do not commit adultery, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Do not defraud, Honor your father and your mother.” The gravity of sins is more or less great: murder is graver than theft. One must also take into account who is wronged: violence against parents is in itself graver than violence against a stranger.

The point being all mortal sins lead to spiritual death, but some are worse than others even though all lead to hell if not confessed and repented.

 

[marty54]

what does this have to do with anything? The Queen can not be a FreeMason for the simple fact that she is a woman…the Freemasons are for MEN ONLY

Karin it seems that you do not know your facts.
The Queen is in fact the HEAD of freemasonary in England, it does not matter she is a woman cause it goes with the fact that she is the Head of the Church of England and the queen.
When she is replaced he or she who become king/queen will enjoy the same privilages.

As regards the pope having talks with various religious denominations, yes it does make a difference where the Church of England, the queen and freemasons are concerned. Is the roman catholic church trying to find ways of convergance with these religions or is it trying to convert the rest.
If the latter I am affraid that even the eminent Ratzinger is in for a hard time.

 

[Karin]

Karin it seems that you do not know your facts.
The Queen is in fact the HEAD of freemasonary in England, it does not matter she is a woman cause it goes with the fact that she is the Head of the Church of England and the queen.
When she is replaced he or she who become king/queen will enjoy the same privilages.

I dont see the Queens name anywhere here…
grandlodge-england.org/masonry/famous-masons.htm
Central to the celebration was the installation of HRH The Duke of Kent as Grand Master, a position to which he has been annually re-elected ever since.

 

[thistle]

Why does Cardinal Ratzinger now Pope still hold dialogue with the English Protestant Church whose head is the queen and who happens to be the head of Freemasonary in UK.?
Please do answer this quetion rather than going all philosophical and theological about it, please be simple in your answer (I’m a simple person)

You are living in fantasy world. The Queen is not the Head of Freemasonry in the UK. Don’t be so stupid!!

By the way why do you and Sixtus keep going off at a tangent.
Trying to ask if its as bad a murder as if to justify Freemasonry becausemurder is much worse in your view. Any mortal sin unrepented at death will see a person condemned.
FOCUS PLEASE.

As many of us have said the opinion of you and others on Freemasonry does not matter at all. Catholics MUST accept the teaching of the Church and its teaching on Freemasonry is clear. A Catholic cannot become a Freemason. Its a grave sin.

 

[Loy]

Why does Cardinal Ratzinger now Pope still hold dialogue with the English Protestant Church whose head is the queen and who happens to be the head of Freemasonary in UK.?
Please do answer this quetion rather than going all philosophical and theological about it, please be simple in your answer (I’m a simple person)

Your question is flawed in large measure because it assumes that the Queen of England is the head of all freemasonry. I cannot agree with this assumption, because there is no convincing proof.

 

[Loy]

Is the roman catholic church trying to find ways of convergance with these religions or is it trying to convert the rest.
If the latter I am affraid that even the eminent Ratzinger is in for a hard time.

So was Jesus.

 

[Loy]

Some years ago, a staunch Catholic in our parish, Lord so and so [can’t give you his proper name] was a leading light in the charasmatic renewal, introduced clapping hands and holding hands into the mass and many others.

As he was a very generous ‘giver’ to the church funds clergy went along with his ideas. Though he was a multi millioniare, so proof he is no fool, he claimed the Holy Spirit spoke to him directly and told him what he was to do or not.

He as a very flamboyant character, you just could not help but like him. He found out I belonged to the Ancient Order of Druids, which the Church it transpired did not object to].

He got hold of the wrong end of the stick and assumed it was ‘Druidic’ and therefore a pagan organisation. He went to great lengths to get me excommunicated as I refused to publicly repent in front of the whole congregation.

He had an audience with the late Bishop and even consulted a canon lawyer. He failed in his attempt and promptly withdrew from our parish in disgust, leaving it to my pagan ways.

I discovered some while after that he was a freemason and had been for several years, including during that period when he was trying to get me dismissed from the church.

I asked him who he could be so hypocritcal. He stated that he had permission from Rome to be a freemason due to his Lordship and public office. He challenged me to ask Rome and make a fool of myself.

That completly changed my mind on the subject. Up until then, I had been against freemasonry. Now if he says he had permission from Rome, I have no reason to doubt it. He was and still IS a ‘big shot’ at diocesan level.

Suggests to me there is a two tier system going on in the church: one for the poor [non-millionares, non Peers ] and rich [millionares and Peers of the relm]. Now that cant be right can it!

Email is fine, problems on the net, computer does not stay on line long enough to call up any sites, It can take upto 20-minutes by which time my phone line loses the connection-outstanding problem with BT.I think, dont really understand this technology!!

Someone suggested that freemasonry ‘plots against the church’,. I have taken the trouble to go to a freemasonry lodge and ask. They were hysterical with laughter.

I shall write to His Holiness and ask if being a freemason is as has beed suggested, so serious that it is on a par with willful murder and forbidden by the Church. I shall ask why Peers of the English Realm are given special dispensation…I will get back to you with the response. If his Holiness says that it is forbidden, I shall publicly apologise on this thread.

God be with you

Sixtus, since you don’t trust official documents from the Church, but trust the stories of a flamboyant millionaire lord, and you won’t be convinced otherwise until you receive a personal letter from the pope himself, you’ve set the bar rather high. I don’t see any constructive purpose in responding to you further, but leave you to your own devices. And since you’re having difficulty with your devices I hope you get them fixed soon.

Godspeed.

 

[marty54]

First of all I would like to thank all those Christians who were so kind as to adore me with some savoury adjectives.
Secondly I said the queen was head of free masonary in UK and not all (including the Common wealth).
What is surprising that most of you are not ready to question the church’s action (of course excluding dogmas) and are just happy to believe that you are all going to heaven because you believe to the last letter all that is said by the Toms, Dicks or Harrys that make up the Hierarcy of the Church.
I am sure that if tomorrow the Pope says that condoms are good then you’ll just change your stories.

 

[thistle]

First of all I would like to thank all those Christians who were so kind as to adore me with some savoury adjectives.
Secondly I said the queen was head of free masonary in UK and not all (including the Common wealth).
What is surprising that most of you are not ready to question the church’s action (of course excluding dogmas) and are just happy to believe that you are all going to heaven because you believe to the last letter all that is said by the Toms, Dicks or Harrys that make up the Hierarcy of the Church.
I am sure that if tomorrow the Pope says that condoms are good then you’ll just change your stories.

As a Catholic you must know you have to accept ALL the teachings of the Church in matters of faith and morals, not just dogmas, even if you do not fully understand them. If you refuse to accept certain teachings then you have a real problem, i.e. you endanger your soul.
You CANNOT pick and choose what teachings to believe and accept.

CCC 2089
Incredulity is the neglect of revealed truth or the willful refusal to assent to it. "Heresy is the obstinate post-baptismal denial of some truth which must be believed with divine and catholic faith, or it is likewise an obstinate doubt concerning the same; apostasy is the total repudiation of the Christian faith; schism is the refusal of submission to the Roman Pontiff or of communion with the members of the Church subject to him."

 

[BaldwinIV]

First of all I would like to thank all those Christians who were so kind as to adore me with some savoury adjectives.
Secondly I said the queen was head of free masonary in UK and not all (including the Common wealth).
What is surprising that most of you are not ready to question the church’s action (of course excluding dogmas) and are just happy to believe that you are all going to heaven because you believe to the last letter all that is said by the Toms, Dicks or Harrys that make up the Hierarcy of the Church.
I am sure that if tomorrow the Pope says that condoms are good then you’ll just change your stories.

Catholic Answers is not a good cross-section of Catholics. This is Taliban territory. That’s why most of the folks on this forum hate the Masons. Freemasons actually expect people to think for themselves, which is taboo here at Catholic Answers.

Jefferson comes to mind…

“In every country and in every age, the priest has been hostile to liberty.” --Thomas Jefferson to Horatio G. Spafford, 1814. ME 14:119

“History, I believe, furnishes no example of a priest-ridden people maintaining a free civil government. This marks the lowest grade of ignorance of which their civil as well as religious leaders will always avail themselves for their own purposes.” --Thomas Jefferson to Alexander von Humboldt, 1813. ME 14:21

Although this is not a quote by Jefferson, it’s one of my favorites:

“The smaller the mind, the bigger the conspiracy.” ~ Anonymous

 

[BaldwinIV]

As a Catholic you must know you have to accept ALL the teachings of the Church in matters of faith and morals, not just dogmas, even if you do not fully understand them. If you refuse to accept certain teachings then you have a real problem, i.e. you endanger your soul.
You CANNOT pick and choose what teachings to believe and accept.

The only thing you’re missing is a pair of Black Nike running shoes.

LEADER, LEADER, LEADER, take me to your LEADER, LEADER, LEADER…

 

[Stu]

Catholic Answers is not a good cross-section of Catholics. This is Taliban territory. That’s why most of the folks on this forum hate the Masons. Freemasons actually expect people to think for themselves, which is taboo here at Catholic Answers.

Jefferson comes to mind…

“In every country and in every age, the priest has been hostile to liberty.” --Thomas Jefferson to Horatio G. Spafford, 1814. ME 14:119

“History, I believe, furnishes no example of a priest-ridden people maintaining a free civil government. This marks the lowest grade of ignorance of which their civil as well as religious leaders will always avail themselves for their own purposes.” --Thomas Jefferson to Alexander von Humboldt, 1813. ME 14:21

Although this is not a quote by Jefferson, it’s one of my favorites:

“The smaller the mind, the bigger the conspiracy.” ~ Anonymous

Jefferson owned slaves. Were they allowed to think for themselves? So even though I admire some things about Thomas Jeffereson, you’ll understand that I am not that impressed.

I don’t think anybody here “hates” masons. The Church has deemed it incompatible with the Faith due to its indifferentalistic ideology. So if you want to be a practicing Catholic then you can’t be a Mason. It really is that simple. So the Church encourages you to think for yourself, but just make an educated choice. I’ll think for myself and choose the Church.

 

[marty54]

and perceived to be void of any rational support. I therefore remained in the English Lodge, contented with the rank of Scotch Master, which was in a manner forced on me in a private Lodge of French Masons, but is not given in the English Lodge.** My masonic rank admitted me to a very elegant entertainment in the female Loge de la Fidélité**, where every ceremonial was composed in the highest degree of elegance, and every thing conducted with the most delicate respect for our fair sisters, and the old song of brotherly love was chanted in the most refined strain of sentiment. I do not suppose that the Parisian Free

To those that do not know that woman have their own Lodges of Freemasonary

 

[TheRaiders]

Female lodges are a new development.
Saint Maximilian Kolbe, martyred in Auschwitz, devoted his life to combating the influence of freemasonry. I believe freemasonry has accomplished many of its goals, and is now fading into the background and doing “works of charity” to cover up their true intent. They have not always been so conspicuous, but they have been shrewd at doing the bulk of their most despicable stuff behind the scenes, or under a differen name. One of those names is the KKK, which was nearly all militant freemasons. It was not always just a southern thing. Many rich, educated northerners were members, and their main enemy was Catholicism. It was later that the southern KKK members began devoting their attention to blacks. The evidence is overwhelming, from the Philipines to South America, that wherever they exert influence, it is mainly to dominate the minds and lives of peoples that once were devoted to God and His Church.

 

[TheRaiders]

Here is a Holy Spirit thing: I first was interested in them just for a novel I am writing. So I went online for some research. The first site I went to was some guy that blamed the freemasons for EVERYTHING. Some of the stuff he said was legit, some not. Interestingly, his site, groups.msn.com/psycologicalwarfare/, has been dissabled (freemasons? ). But the first page I went to on his site had a link with humboldt in its name. I thought, that’s interesting. I had been living in Humboldt the last four years. I clicked on it, and it was a guestbook. It was a bunch of normal-sounding freemasons from all over the country saying how great the Web site was. I was reading for anything unusual when all of a sudden on posting jumped out at me: It was about the Catholic Newman Center (where I lived for three years), and specifically about the goat we had on our property. The poster even knew the name of the goat, Bobo. That was WEIRD. What are the odds that the first bit of research I do leads me to a lodge that was right nextdoor to me the last three years (I hadn’t ever thought twice about it)?
With my interest piqued, and all these masons saying how good the site was, I wanted to see it for myself. I looked on the guestbook page for a link back to the homepage, there wasn’t any. So I went up to the address and just deleted the last part. Before I show you what I saw there, here is the site they want the rest of the world to see : calodges.org/no106/index1.html
Here is the one that they use for themselves:humboldt1.com/~starc/
Keep in mind, the same Lodge made both sites.
I have later read two books on Freemasonry, one from a secular point of view, and one from a Catholic point of view. IN addition to other research, I have concluded that freemasonry is evil to the core, no matter what face they put on outwardly. I am not saying every member, or even every Lodge knows they are in an organization against the Church. But regardless, they are being lead down the wrong path, wittingly or unwittinlgy.

 

[Sixtus]

freemasonry has accomplished many of its goals… fading… doing “works of charity” to cover up their true intent… been shrewd at doing the bulk of their most despicable stuff behind the scenes, or under a different name.

One of those names is the KKK, which was nearly all militant freemasons… their main enemy was Catholicism… It was later that the southern KKK members began devoting their attention to blacks.

I find the above quite frighening. Yes it really scares me. I just cannot believe the author is serious

I suppose it is a sad fact of life that we always tend to burn witches. Nothing much ever changes. Heaven help us if we were ever to be visited by aliens. One thing is certain, if we could, they would never return to their mother planet nor live to tell the tale.

Small wonder the Lord intends to come back with a host of Angels. Who can blame Him, if you were He, would you seriously contemplate coming back ‘unaccompanied’?

 

[TheRaiders]

I find the above quite frighening. Yes it really scares me. I just cannot believe the author is serious

I suppose it is a sad fact of life that we always tend to burn witches. Nothing much ever changes. Heaven help us if we were ever to be visited by aliens. One thing is certain, if we could, they would never return to their mother planet nor live to tell the tale.

Small wonder the Lord intends to come back with a host of Angels. Who can blame Him, if you were He, would you seriously contemplate coming back ‘unaccompanied’?

Sixtus, have you done ANY reasearch on this subject? Founder of KKK: Col. Simmons (Mason, and Knights Templar)
His successor: Dr. Hiram Evans (Devoted 32nd degree Mason)
Klan publicity agent, fund raiser, Imperial Kleagle: Edward Clarke (Here’s a good quote: “realized the value of representingthe Klan to be ‘the fighting brother’ of Masonry”. He also issued orders that “none but men with Masonic affiliations” should be employed as Kleagles in the Klan).
I could go on with tons more evidence, but you will probably just scoff and call it conspiracy nonsense. By the way, witch burning? What are you talking about? What is your invested interest in the Lodge by the way? Why are you so against talking about why the Church is against Masonry? Will you not even admit there may be some reasons which you don’t know about?