Frozen Thread

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ToeInTheWater said:
Joseph3, I am getting the feeling that you yourself agree with the Duke and Hans, that Elsa deserved to die for “sorcery”, that a “Christian” response to the situation was indeed to execute Elsa. I’d hoped this was not the case, but otherwise many of your statements don’t make sense.

Yet, while the movie really doesn’t get into how Elsa came to have her powers. It makes it very obvious that she did not seek out a demon or witch or any evil being herself. Although her father states she was born with the powers, it’s certainly possible she was cursed with them while in the womb.

Even if we accept your premise that “all magical powers are demonic”, that does not make Elsa culpable for having them. She did not ask for her powers, and for most of her life sought very hard to control them, to the point of shutting herself away from those she loved.

Elsa herself even refers to them as a “curse” at one point, the “For the First Time in Forever” reprise when Anna comes to her castle and tells her what her powers have done to her kingdom. She is devastated by this and sings, “I can’t reverse the curse”. Elsa did not set out to harm others.

All this being said, I do think she has some culpability for Anna’s near-death from a “frozen heart” as an adult. I wouldn’t call it murder, but I think we can make a case for manslaughter, that what Elsa did was the equivalent of shooting a machine gun into the air to try to scare someone away, and accidentally hitting that person though that wasn’t the goal.

However, Anna herself forgives Elsa for this. And it is Anna’s act of love, forgiveness, and sacrifice, that saves not only Elsa, not only herself, but the entire kingdom, because only then does Elsa realize how to control her powers. Not fearing them, as her parents taught her to do, but using the power of love to overcome them.

Although we’ll never know, I personally think that killing Elsa would NOT have ended the winter. Again, I am very familiar with the kind of “Christian” you say the Duke represents. I’d much rather be the kind of Christian I see in Anna.
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Hans used the fact that Anna got struck as justification for having Elsa executed. Hans had a completely secular reason for being against Elsa. The Duke was motivated by religious passion.
 
anon67074017 said:
Hans used the fact that Anna got struck as justification for having Elsa executed. Hans had a completely secular reason for being against Elsa. The Duke was motivated by religious passion.
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It may be your personal headcanon that the Duke was religious, but I see absolutely no evidence for that in the movie itself. Even if he was religious, that doesn’t give him an automatic free pass for seeking to kill Elsa. I still think that Anna trying to save Elsa, is much closer to a Christian way of action, than the Duke trying to destroy her.
 
ToeInTheWater said:
It may be your personal headcanon that the Duke was religious, but I see absolutely no evidence for that in the movie itself. Even if he was religious, that doesn’t give him an automatic free pass for seeking to kill Elsa. I still think that Anna trying to save Elsa, is much closer to a Christian way of action, than the Duke trying to destroy her.
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Anna is likely irreligious. She did do a Christian act when she sacrificed herself for Elsa though. The Duke may be a religious zealot who takes Christianity too far. I personally do not approve of persecuting witches. It seems to run contrary to Christ’s message.
 
anon67074017 said:
Narnia is a Christian allegory. Frozen is secular entertainment that promotes witchcraft.
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You’re argument is silly :rolleyes:. You’ve presented no proof that her powers are derived from witchcraft. She was born with her powers. No pacts with demons, no learning to utilize dark forces, nothing.

Unless you intend to make the argument that it’s witchcraft because one of the two VILLAINS of the film call it that…then I suppose there’s no hope for you.

She’s basically a mutant, like those from the X-Men franchise. Unless you think they’re all practitioners of the dark arts too. :rolleyes:
 
anon67074017 said:
The Duke is clearly a very religious man. He is like Judge Claude Frollo from The Hunchback of Notre Dame. The Duke acts in the name of Christianity when he persecutes Elsa.

It is quite possible that the filmmakers intend for Anna and Elsa to be romantic lovers. A lot of evidence has been presented by people who support the idea. The family of Oaken in the sauna are his cousins though.
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So you’re comparing one villain to another…Frollo to the Duke. I think you made the argument for us.

No evidence is presented for the Weasel duke being a Christian…or that Christianity even exists in the world of Frozen.

Your inferences and anecdotes cannot be used a factual evidence.
 
anon67074017 said:
Anna is likely irreligious. She did do a Christian act when she sacrificed herself for Elsa though. The Duke may be a religious zealot who takes Christianity too far. I personally do not approve of persecuting witches. It seems to run contrary to Christ’s message.
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Again, you make a statement with no evidence from the movie itself. How can you claim a character is irreligious when religion isn’t ever mentioned in the movie? We don’t even have proof that a religion exists in the world of Frozen.

P.S. I’m glad you’re not for persecuting witches…since “real” magic doesn’t exist 👍
 
jtauke said:
Again, you make a statement with no evidence from the movie itself. How can you claim a character is irreligious when religion isn’t ever mentioned in the movie? We don’t even have proof that a religion exists in the world of Frozen.

P.S. I’m glad you’re not for persecuting witches…since “real” magic doesn’t exist 👍
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Anna just seems like the type of millennial who would be secular.
 
jtauke said:
Again, you make a statement with no evidence from the movie itself. How can you claim a character is irreligious when religion isn’t ever mentioned in the movie? We don’t even have proof that a religion exists in the world of Frozen.
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As I recall, Elsa was crowned by a gentleman with a mitre, just before she took the orb and scepter.
 
jtauke said:
What from the movie supports that claim? Better yet, how can someone be secular in a movie with no introduced religion.
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Anna acts like an average millennial girl. She also does not have a problem accepting Elsa’s magic, which suggests that she is very tolerant and lenient. Christianity is mentioned in the film.
 
anon67074017 said:
Anna acts like an average millennial girl. She also does not have a problem accepting Elsa’s magic, which suggests that she is very tolerant and lenient. Christianity is mentioned in the film.
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Gee, I must have missed the scene were Anna whips out her smartphone and sends a text to Elsa asking her to come back and stop the winter. :rolleyes: That’s what an “average millennial girl” would act like.

BTW, the term “Millennial” is NOT a synonym for “teenager” or “young adult”, it refers to a specific generation that was either born or “came of age” in the 2000s. Last I checked, Arendelle is not a modern country from the 2000s. The story is actually set in the 1800s.

And yes, they are very “tolerant” and loving, but I’m not sure the “average millennial” is that keen on self-sacrifice. I see a lot of “slacktivism” such as changing your facebook profile photo to “show support for France”, that doesn’t involve any self-sacrifice at all, and a lot of self-righteousness as opposed to what they see as a stratified, corrupt Establishment – though that’s actually a rather universal teenage/young adult frame of mind.

Now, I will give you that a Christian-appearing Church and a Bishop is shown in the coronation scene. But I don’t recall the word “Christianity” actually been uttered by anyone, and certainly not the Duke. And you admit you don’t actually agree with what he’s doing, anyway.
 
anon67074017 said:
There is an online campaign to give Elsa a girlfriend in the sequel:independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/films/news/frozen-2-people-are-campaigning-to-make-elsa-the-first-lgbt-princess-in-disneys-history-a7009046.html What do you people think of this? I think that Catholics should rally against this travesty that will corrupt the minds of children.
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I think anyone with an internet connection can start an online campaign. It doesn’t mean it’s going to go anywhere. 🤷

While I don’t doubt that Hollywood as a whole is trying to shift the boundaries such that people won’t bat an eye at having open LGBT characters in kid’s movies, we are not there yet. They would not attempt something like that at this point in time. About the most they would do is give her a close female friend with no hint of any Prince Charming on the horizon. That way, they’d have sufficient deniability for the Christian demographic while also giving nudges and winks to the LGBT community. Only after being successful with several such movie scenarios would they move to something more blatant.

And even then, it’s going to start the same way it did with network TV—with a character that “comes out” without having a love interest. The sympathetic character gets bullied and the audience feels for them, and eventually the bully gets what’s coming to them while the gay protagonist comes to accept themselves for who they are. After several movies in that vein, then the door might be sufficiently open for introducing a Princess with a girlfriend.

They’ve got to warm the water gradually or else the frog jumps out of the pot.

In any case, Elsa won’t be getting a girlfriend in Frozen 2. It’s much too soon for that.
 
anon67074017 said:
For those who don’t want Elsa to get a girlfriend, there is hope. There is a petition to give Elsa a charming prince instead. Here is the petition:citizengo.org/en/fm/34400-disney-no-princess-queen-elsa-charmingprinceforelsa 67,941 people have signed it including me. I have also tweeted about it. We need to win this battle. Hopefully Disney will listen to us.
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Honestly, neither petition is likely of any influence to Disney. I doubt they will let plot points be determined by online polls. 🤷 I think it is exceedingly unlikely that they would give Elsa a “girlfriend.” But I wouldn’t be surprised to see them refrain from giving her a “Prince Charming.” Then both sides can claim they won and lost simultaneously. 😉
 
anon67074017 said:
For those who don’t want Elsa to get a girlfriend, there is hope. There is a petition to give Elsa a charming prince instead. Here is the petition:citizengo.org/en/fm/34400-disney-no-princess-queen-elsa-charmingprinceforelsa 67,941 people have signed it including me. I have also tweeted about it. We need to win this battle. Hopefully Disney will listen to us.
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I always saw Elsa as the example that one can grow as a person and be happy without the overused romantic disney trope. Why does she need either? Can’t disney have this one movie that showcases to little girls that they can be strong without pining after a love interest of any kind?
 
jtauke said:
I always saw Elsa as the example that one can grow as a person and be happy without the overused romantic disney trope. Why does she need either? Can’t disney have this one movie that showcases to little girls that they can be strong without pining after a love interest of any kind?
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Right. I think that’s what Disney is going for more than anything (as a way of doing penance for all the other Disney princess movies of years past). They’re able to do that with Elsa while still doing the usual romantic angle with Anna. That’s as close as they can get to pleasing everyone. I would guess that any sequel would simply continue down that path.
 
jtauke said:
I always saw Elsa as the example that one can grow as a person and be happy without the overused romantic disney trope. Why does she need either? Can’t disney have this one movie that showcases to little girls that they can be strong without pining after a love interest of any kind?
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She does not technically need anyone. I would just like the speculation and campaigns to make Elsa a lesbian stop. Disney can totally keep Elsa single. It won’t stop the speculation that Elsa is a lesbian and people will still be campaigning to make her one though.
 
anon67074017 said:
She does not technically need anyone. I would just like the speculation and campaigns to make Elsa a lesbian stop. Disney can totally keep Elsa single. It won’t stop the speculation that Elsa is a lesbian and people will still be campaigning to make her one though.
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Good heavens! Who cares what other people think? You have no power over other people’s thoughts. Best to spend your one, precious, God-given life focusing on things you actually can control – like your own thoughts and actions.

Just saying.
 
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