Funny thing my 14 year old thought

[MariaG]

The LCMS does not ordain women. She was presumably a layperson leading a portion of the service–which as far as I can see is not fundamentally impossible in Catholicism, and indeed sometimes happens.

Edwin

No, I am pretty sure she was leading it, she was dressed in vestments and everything.

I am probably just mistaken on which kind of Lutheran it was Thanks for the correction:thumbsup: I hate to post incorrect information about other denoms.

 

[MariaG]

What is “Catholic”?

If “Catholic” means a distinctive style of being Christian, then it is not really “Catholic” in the sense of the Nicene Creed. If Catholicism is really the Universal Church, then nothing good or beautiful can be alien to it. That means that in order to prove that something is “not Catholic” you have to show that there is something specifically wrong with it–you can’t simply appeal to some stylistic or cultural sense of what is “Catholic.”

For the record, I completely agree with you in practice–much of what this thread is talking about is a new iconoclasm that has deliberately jettisoned important parts of the heritage of Latin Catholics. That’s a shame and a disgrace.

What I am concerned about is the attitude of some converts that they want nothing that reminds them of their former churches–they want to assimilate to the religious culture of traditional Latin Catholicism as much as possible. In that case, they have simply switched traditions rather than entering into the fullness of the Faith as they claim to have done.

This is probably a hijacking of MariaG’s entirely legitimate thread. My apologies, Maria, for chasing this particular bee in my bonnet!

Edwin

No, Edwin. That is okay. This thread was just a way for me to share my humor with my son’s reaction. It will die soon anyway.

Feel free to continue to discuss the offshoot on this thread.

I do feel it is a shame when people try to shoot down where they came from instead of praising what they had and being thankful for where it has led them.

I do think you you have made an important distinction.

The Catholic Church has a long history of incorporating the culture of groups of new Christians. Taking pagan holidays and making them days to honor and worship God instead. Converts should not feel compelled to jettison all.

God Bless,
Maria

 

[MariaG]

I would have to say that this was my mistake.
Latin Catholic should be Latin Catholic.

In some places, including my area, there is a huge blend of Latin Catholic and Protestant flavors. A Latin Catholic should not be looking to other demominations for the traditions that we use. We should be looking to our own history and not others

Having a ex-Presbyterian husband, I know that what brought him to the Church was not the handholding (that he had experienced in his brother’s evangelical church), banners (of his home church) nor the speaking in tongues (that he saw at his sister’s church) it was the traditions and practices of our very Historic, Latin Catholic church. The same traditions that I practice, my mother practiced and my Grandmother practiced, only in Latin.

I think that this is what converts want. They want the parish to remain Historically Latin Catholic. If it has the feel of the church they left then why leave?

As my SIL once told me, “Yes, you have Jesus in your church, but we have the Holy Spirit. They are One God, aren’t they?”

Yes, but don’t you think there is a difference in those who wish to embrace the Latin Rite and those who just wish it because it needs to be completely different than what they had?

I think this is the distinction being made.

One is turning towards something because they see it as positive and the other is rejecting all that which they see as negative now.

It might just be half empty versus half full, but I do see a difference.

Your sister in Christ,
Maria

 

[Genesis315]

Anyway, I thought you all here might enjoy hearing that my son thought a modern church with a NO mass was mistaken for a Protestant service by my son

I don’t enjoy hearing that at all. It’s very heartbreaking and a sad reminder of the state of some parishes. I think someone would have to wish to see the demise of the Church to take pleasure in such a thing.

Sadly, it seems many so called traditionalists do take delight in mocking such situations and puffing themselves up instead of offering penances and prayers of lamentation to God to send us relief. I’ve been guilty of that myself quite often too.

 

[MariaG]

I don’t enjoy hearing that at all. It’s very heartbreaking and a sad reminder of the state of some parishes. I think someone would have to wish to see the demise of the Church to take pleasure in such a thing.

You think wrong.

 

[Genesis315]

You think wrong.

Then please enlighten me. Where does the enjoyment come from?

 

[Hesychios]

Glory to Jesus Christ!

Hello MariaG,

Hi,…

Anyway, I thought you all here might enjoy hearing that my son thought a modern church with a NO mass was mistaken for a Protestant service by my son

God Bless,
Maria

I think the story was cute!

I am curious to know if your son has had exposure to Protestant services and sanctuaries, through friends perhaps? It would be interesting to know if such an exposure informed his perceptions.

I apologize is you have addressed this earlier, I just came into the thread and did not read it all.

Michael

 

[dbacks5439]

My comments stand. And, mommy, you are not correct that I am looking to be offended. Does a fish look to be caught? Nope, just swims along doing his fish things.

Many of the so-called Traditionalists, those who claim obedience–absolute and utmost–obey noone but themselves. There is a huge disparity in their statements of belief and their actions. On very many levels.

I do not like much of what I read on this Traditionalist Forum, ma. And it has nothing to with the TLM, Traditional Catholic Piety or Reverence. Because I have found little that has to deal with the TLM in any substantial way, no Traditional Catholic Piety or Reverence.

I have encountered a group of well meaning people who have taken to heart Jesus’ first --and greatest-- commandment, but have dismissed His second.

They have made themselves victims, who then grow up to become perpetrators. And Bishops and Cardinals and Popes.

You seem offended by what Maria’s son said. I thought Jesus said something about the Kingdom of Heaven belonging to children…am I wrong?
Fortunately for my parish, it's designed for the TLM, and it has many symbols and statues (we even have a statue for every station of the cross all around the church). However, at my college, we have the NO Mass on campus, and most attending are teens. Sadly, that Mass is Catholic, but some of the liturgical abuses and the way the teens conduct themselves make it seem like protestant. I get mad, but I focus on the Eucharist, seeing how the Mass is centered around that. Maurin, don't get offended. Nothing wrong happened. Maria and her son were still focused on the Eucharist, which is really all that matters.

 

[MariaG]

Then please enlighten me. Where does the enjoyment come from?

My enjoyment came from his mistake at thinking it was a Protestant Church based on the decor and singing of the Church, not based on any perceived liturgical abuse. Even though there was a very visible and large Crucifix, his memory of Protestant Churches is that they are very visually boring, much like this one. His memory was also that they liked to sing alot. And this one sung every possible thing that was possible to be sung.

My humor came mostly from assuming it was Protestant because he found the “decorations” or lack there of boring and therefore it must be Protestant.

That was the thing he absolutely loved when we first started going to the Catholic Church. He was so excited that he could look at Jesus in so many different places and in different situations in the stained glass. He loved the place to go light a candle and ask the saints to add their prayers to his. He finds most Protestant Churches boring and lacking by comparison to our church. I had been aware of that, but was amused, and pleased, that his opinion of “boring” was not based on Protestant versus Catholic but decorations. I would not care for him to despise the denomination he came from but am glad he embraces where he is.

As I said in one of the first few posts, while there certainly can be some serious and sad issues related to this, there is also humor. If you find none, that is your problem but please kindly do not again say that because I find humor in my son’s comments about the decor and singing of Catholic Church and mistaking it for a Protestant Church based on those issues, that I must somehow wish to see the demise of the Catholic Church.

 

[MariaG]

Glory to Jesus Christ!

Hello MariaG, I think the story was cute!

I am curious to know if your son has had exposure to Protestant services and sanctuaries, through friends perhaps? It would be interesting to know if such an exposure informed his perceptions.

I apologize is you have addressed this earlier, I just came into the thread and did not read it all.

Michael

Thanks Michael .

I am a “revert/convert”. The only Churches he went to until he was 8 were fundamental Christian Churches, which can be even more stark than some.

Currently, he will occassionally attend if he spends the night, but he usually does not spend the night with anyone on Saturday night because he does want to offend them by insisting on going to Mass Saturday night, or having them drop him off at “his” Church.

God Bless,
Maria

 

[MariaG]

Maria and her son were still focused on the Eucharist, which is really all that matters.

Yes, we were. Him probably more so than even I because I had to deal with my very tired 5 year old.

And once he realized it was actually a Catholic Church, he started to “look” for Catholic symbols and items. For instance he “found” the tabernacle by the red candle holder that is always lit and near Christ.

But he still found the church visually boring. Actually, he found the homily boring too We are blessed with a good priest whom he finds interesting and my son is always sharing things from our priest’s homily.

God Bless,
Maria

 

[Cincy]

Marie G
Since you stated that no litugical abuses happened at the Mass, It appears that your son was not paying attention or he would have realized he was at a Catholic Mass. To me that is not a funny thing.

 

[rr1213]

Hi,

I went to visit my mom this weekend and we attended her new parish, Catholic, for the first time. I had just had a converstation with my 14 year old about not recieveing communion in a Protestant Church.

Well apparently, although our church has a NO mass, we don’t “look” like many NO parishes who have redecorated, as well as we don’t have the same kind of singing, because my son whispered and asked “I shouldn’t have communion, right?” When I inquired why not, he said “well you said I shouldn’t have communion in a Protestant Church”

I laughingly told this was a Catholic Church. He then asked if it was an old church. I said no, why do you ask? He said, “Well, it is just so boring. Hardly any pictures or statues.”

I guess that is what happens when you have a mostly retired parish, things “look and sound” more like a more Traditional Church. I think next time we go visit my mom we will have to attend a TLM for my son to experience and see which our church seems more like to him

Anyway, I thought you all here might enjoy hearing that my son thought a modern church with a NO mass was mistaken for a Protestant service by my son

God Bless,
Maria

I’m not Catholic, yet even I could see the humor in this story.

 

[rr1213]

Marie G
Since you stated that no litugical abuses happened at the Mass, It appears that your son was not paying attention or he would have realized he was at a Catholic Mass. To me that is not a funny thing.

Oh boy. There’s one in every crowd. Actually, there’s two or three in this one thread. People, God does have a sense of humor…He created us, didn’t he? If you want to see what He thinks about our pretensions, read His response to Job in the last few chapters of that book. Let’s not take ourselves so seriously, ok?

Who would have thought that such an innocent story about a child would lead to such a misguided firestorm…

 

[Rabbititus]

I think the 14 year old’s comments are interesting and illustrate why modern Catholic churches should follow the longstanding tradition of being artistically rich spaces no matter what overall style is employed (be it modern or Gothic or whatever). An artistically rich church should have depictions of saints, of Mary, or the life of Christ and the trinity to serve as constant reminders of Catholic doctrine and practice. In our societry, children are constantly bombarded with distractions, so the need to put our beliefs out for all to see is probably more important than ever.

I recently visted an old Gothic church who’s congregation will soon move to a new building. The old church was fantastic - it had shrines to Mary and Joseph and an altar which depicted the last supper and at least eleven saints - the side walls had glorious stations of the cross and the choir loft had carved wooden angels. By the altar there sat a setup with renderings of the new church. Of all the treasures this parish posses, only the large crucifix was shown as being retained in the new building. The old church was by no means gaudy or overdone, BTW.

I think austere spaces send a message that Marian and saint devotions, as well as the passion of Christ, are somewhat unimportant.

 

[MariaG]

Marie G
Since you stated that no litugical abuses happened at the Mass, It appears that your son was not paying attention or he would have realized he was at a Catholic Mass. To me that is not a funny thing.

Not true. He was in fact paying attention. His question came very early in the Mass.

Even if it came right before communion, is a child supposed to know what DOESN’T happen in a Protestant service even if they did attend for the first 8 years of their life?

 

[MariaG]

I’m not Catholic, yet even I could see the humor in this story.

Thanks

Oh boy. There’s one in every crowd. Actually, there’s two or three in this one thread. People, God does have a sense of humor…He created us, didn’t he? If you want to see what He thinks about our pretensions, read His response to Job in the last few chapters of that book. Let’s not take ourselves so seriously, ok?

Who would have thought that such an innocent story about a child would lead to such a misguided firestorm…

Who knew?

Ah well, thank goodness for those who got the point of what was supposed to be a light hearted thread and did not jump to negative conclusions like “he must not have been paying attention” like a 14 year old is supposed to be an expert on what happens at a Protestant service compared to a Catholic Mass.

 

[netmilsmom]

Yes, but don’t you think there is a difference in those who wish to embrace the Latin Rite and those who just wish it because it needs to be completely different than what they had?

I think this is the distinction being made.

One is turning towards something because they see it as positive and the other is rejecting all that which they see as negative now.

It might just be half empty versus half full, but I do see a difference.

Your sister in Christ,
Maria

I haven’t seen too many people who are turning toward The Church just to get rid of bagage. I’m sure there are some.

You and Djrakowski are the ones who can say for sure. My hubby wasn’t turning away, he was turning toward!

 

[netmilsmom]

Marie G
Since you stated that no litugical abuses happened at the Mass, It appears that your son was not paying attention or he would have realized he was at a Catholic Mass. To me that is not a funny thing.

Even Catholics are allowed to laugh.
This is my favorite.

Jesus is standing before the adulterer. He says, “He who is perfect, cast the first stone.”

Suddenly a good size rock flies over the crowd and lands at His feet.

“MOM”, he cries, “I asked you to please tell me when you are going to visit me at work!”

(well, I liked it)

 

[rr1213]

Even Catholics are allowed to laugh.
This is my favorite.

Jesus is standing before the adulterer. He says, “He who is perfect, cast the first stone.”

Suddenly a good size rock flies over the crowd and lands at His feet.

“MOM”, he cries, “I asked you to please tell me when you are going to visit me at work!”

(well, I liked it)

It is funny, but you’ll probably get pillored for it.