Gabrielle Giffords Endorses Clinton

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I did not make the statement. Pope Emeritus Benedict XVI did. You know where to find him to ask your question. I do not speak for Benedict XVI. I simply follow what our Holy Fathers have said.
No,I asked you what are your proportionate reasons are for supporting one of the two Dem candidates,in spite of their avowed support of abortion.What are they offering,that in your prudential judgement overrides the evil of abortion?I ask this because you stated that you don’t believe the Republuncans have or will really do anything about abortion,so basically you are ok with supporting a candidate who blatently supports it and you know will not do anything to change it.So again,HillRy and Bernie must hold some appeal for you,beyond this issue.Just wondering?
 
So, is one saying that they are agreeing that a baby can be aborted up to a minute before being born? Really? That is the Democratic Party’s position. They must have a lot of heart.
The Democratic Party’s position does not mention time limits on when abortion can be performed, so I’m a little confused by you saying this. I mean, I could link the position page, but I’m sure you can find it.

My understanding is that very few states permit late-term abortions. I think viability (generally accepted at 24 weeks) is the cut-off for most states.

My understanding is that late-term abortions are rare and usually only permitted if the mother’s life is in danger.
 
So, is one saying that they are agreeing that a baby can be aborted up to a minute before being born? Really? That is the Democratic Party’s position. They must have a lot of heart.
It’s not the “Democratic Party’s” position. It is the position of SOME in the Democratic Party and SOME in the Republican Party. It is the opinion of SOME people. Not all Democrats are pro-choice and not all Republicans are pro-life.

When one makes a sweeping statement, one can usually count on being wrong.
 
No,I asked you what are your proportionate reasons are for supporting one of the two Dem candidates,in spite of their avowed support of abortion.What are they offering,that in your prudential judgement overrides the evil of abortion?I ask this because you stated that you don’t believe the Republuncans have or will really do anything about abortion,so basically you are ok with supporting a candidate who blatently supports it and you know will not do anything to change it.So again,HillRy and Bernie must hold some appeal for you,beyond this issue.Just wondering?
Lily can speak for herself, but my personal opinion is that the existential threat to this country posed by a President Trump is sufficient to warrant voting for either of the candidates you mentioned.
 
The Democratic Party’s position does not mention time limits on when abortion can be performed, so I’m a little confused by you saying this. I mean, I could link the position page, but I’m sure you can find it.

My understanding is that very few states permit late-term abortions. I think viability (generally accepted at 24 weeks) is the cut-off for most states.

My understanding is that late-term abortions are rare and usually only permitted if the mother’s life is in danger.
That seems awfully late to be lawful to me. Some babies born prior to 24 weeks have lived.

Edit: You are right. Some states even allow later abortions:

nytimes.com/interactive/2013/06/18/us/politics/abortion-restrictions.html?_r=0

That’s horrible! It’s horrible to even think about.
 
Lily can speak for herself, but my personal opinion is that the existential threat to this country posed by a President Trump is sufficient to warrant voting for either of the candidates you mentioned.
I am not voting for trump in the upcoming caucus,however I will vote for him if God forbid,he be ones the candidate,because he is infinitely better a choice that either Hillary or Bernie.
 
The Democratic Party’s position does not mention time limits on when abortion can be performed, so I’m a little confused by you saying this. I mean, I could link the position page, but I’m sure you can find it.

My understanding is that very few states permit late-term abortions. I think viability (generally accepted at 24 weeks) is the cut-off for most states.

My understanding is that late-term abortions are rare and usually only permitted if the mother’s life is in danger.
The Democratic Party supports partial birth abortions. That is up until birth.
**
DNC platform supports partial-birth abortion, excludes language for abortion to be ‘rare’**
thehill.com/blogs/pundits-blog/healthcare/244723-dnc-platform-supports-partial-birth-abortion-excludes-language-for-abortion-to-be-rare
 
Lily can speak for herself, but my personal opinion is that the existential threat to this country posed by a President Trump is sufficient to warrant voting for either of the candidates you mentioned.
I do agree with you, LbN. Trump poses a danger to the US that is far greater than either Clinton or Sanders. And I say that as someone who finds abortion, at any stage, abhorrent.

I can’t, in good conscience, however, vote for Trump, who I believe might very well destroy the US and everyone in it. The thought of Trump having the nuclear codes is chilling, to say the least.
 
Lily can speak for herself, but my personal opinion is that the existential threat to this country posed by a President Trump is sufficient to warrant voting for either of the candidates you mentioned.
Believe me, the damage done by Obama in my opinion has been the same existential threat.
 
It’s not the “Democratic Party’s” position. It is the position of SOME in the Democratic Party and SOME in the Republican Party. It is the opinion of SOME people. Not all Democrats are pro-choice and not all Republicans are pro-life.

When one makes a sweeping statement, one can usually count on being wrong.
Here is the Democratic Platform on the abortion, so while SOME Democrats might reject their party, it would be correct that the Democratic party is on record as rejecting any restrictions on when a woman could kill her unborn child.
Strongly and unequivocally support Roe v. Wade
The Democratic Party strongly and unequivocally supports Roe v. Wade and a woman’s right to make decisions regarding her pregnancy, including a safe and legal abortion, regardless of ability to pay. We oppose any and all efforts to weaken or undermine that right. Abortion is an intensely personal decision between a woman, her family, her doctor, and her clergy; there is no place for politicians or government to get in the way. We also recognize that health care and education help reduce the number of unintended pregnancies and thereby also reduce the need for abortions. We strongly and unequivocally support a woman’s decision to have a child by providing affordable health care and ensuring the availability of and access to programs that help women during pregnancy and after the birth of a child, including caring adoption programs.
ontheissues.org/Celeb/Democratic_Party_Abortion.htm

So where does the party place any restrictions on abortion, such as late term abortion.
 
I do agree with you, LbN. Trump poses a danger to the US that is far greater than either Clinton or Sanders.
Clinton?

That fiasco in Libya definitely rules her out, thousands of people have been killed over this misguided policy and now ISIS is strong in Libya.

Trump never did anything like this.
 
Here is the Democratic Platform on the abortion

ontheissues.org/Celeb/Democratic_Party_Abortion.htm

So where does the party place any restrictions on abortion, such as late term abortion.
I should have said SOME Democrats oppose abortion and SOME Republicans do not. I personally know Republicans who have had abortions. Ronald Reagan did not oppose abortion until he decided to run for office and found out it was more politically advantageous to oppose it. Personally, I don’t think Trump cares who has an abortion or how many.
 
I can’t, in good conscience, however, vote for Trump, who I believe might very well destroy the US and everyone in it. The thought of Trump having the nuclear codes is chilling, to say the least.
No more chilling than having Sanders in a position to appoint pro-choice judges to the Supreme Court.

And yes, I object to Trump for those same reasons, he and Sanders in the same bed regarding Planned Parenthood
 
Clinton has already damaged national security too, leaking top secret info in her emails, she really has no business even running for office.
 
Clinton?

That fiasco in Libya definitely rules her out, thousands of people have been killed over this misguided policy and now ISIS is strong in Libya.

Trump never did anything like this.
What EXACTLY did she do wrong in Libya and HOW have thousands been killed over it?

I’ve asked that question before and no one has ever given an answer.
 
I’m not sure that I understand your first sentence, PF. The truth is that my world and my Church have struggled with the morality/immorality of slavery for years. Today, we as a people (and a church) have reached the belief in concert that it is immoral for one human being to own another human being - that it is always immoral. We didn’t always believe that. Some people in some places still don’t believe that.

The world (and its churches) have certainly not reached a belief in concert that abortion is immoral. The fact that there are so very, very, very many views highlight the complexities and confusions of the subject.

I believe the single person who has the right to make a decision regarding abortion is the pregnant woman. I want the pregnant woman to be able to make her decision in consult with her doctor and I want her to have safe, accessible care. I am happy to defend that stance.

I’ve not heard of a situation where a woman and her doctor thought an abortion was necessary right up to the child being born, so I do not know how to speak to that hypothetical.
So long as the discussion on abortion, which is off-topic to this thread, persists, I must jump in, knowing from experience that it will be to no avail. In my faith, the abortion issue is complex and Judaism takes a middle ground. It vehemently opposes abortion on demand for reasons other than the life and health (physical and psychological) of the pregnant woman. Paradoxically perhaps, it is Orthodox Judaism which REQUIRES abortion if the mother’s life is in danger, while less orthodox branches permit but do not require such. Yet even rape and incest, while permissible according to some Orthodox rabbis since they impose an undue health concern for the woman, are NOT uniformly agreed upon as sufficient reasons for abortion within the Orthodox Jewish community. The abortion of a severely congenitally impaired unborn infant is another thorny issue within Judaism and has not been uniformly agreed upon. One thing is certain, however, and that is EVERY stream of Judaism, from Orthodox to Conservative to Reform and Reconstructionist, opposes abortion on demand without compelling justification.

The above is a summary of the Jewish viewpoint on abortion, omitting details which would fill a tome or two. However, stepping outside of the Jewish belief regarding abortion, most Jews realize, or should realize, that other religious beliefs including those held by a Catholic, Baptist, Methodist, Episcopalian, Quaker, Muslim, Hindu, Buddhist and so on have their own views on abortion. This is precisely why it is so difficult to legislate anti-abortion laws for the WHOLE country. The issue of abortion is linked to the issue of religious freedom. And this is also why the decision, as you believe, is and must remain a PERSONAL one on the part of the woman, her husband, family, physician, clergy, and faith, and NOT decided by the interference of government, which most conservatives are opposed to on a host of other issues.
 
Clinton has already damaged national security too, leaking top secret info in her emails, she really has no business even running for office.
Tell us exactly what damage was done and how it occurred?

I agree that she did not make the best choice in using a private email server, but I fail to see where anyone but her was damaged by it.
 
What EXACTLY did she do wrong in Libya and HOW have thousands been killed over it?

I’ve asked that question before and no one has ever given an answer.
Clinton on Qaddafi: “We came, we saw, he died”
cbsnews.com/news/clinton-on-qaddafi-we-came-we-saw-he-died/
Thanks to the Arab Spring including Egypt and the Libyan war, thousands have died, refugees cross from Libya trying to get to Italy, many of them have drowned. ISIS is now a force in Libya. It wasn’t before.
 
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