Galatians Bible Study

  • Thread starter Thread starter Reformed
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
I will out of the spirit of charity, avoid arguing on this matter any further.
Code:
It's apparent that reformed's idea of Christ's message is different from my idea of what Christ came to teach us about truth and love.
Ashley,

I really believe you have no idea what the bad news of God is or what the great good news of God is. There is no charity for proclaiming something contrary to the essential truths of the Christian Faith. What is the condition of man prior to knowing Christ?

The Ministry of Reconciliation
11 Therefore, knowing the fear of the Lord, we persuade others. But what we are is known to God, and I hope it is known also to your conscience. 12 We are not commending ourselves to you again but giving you cause to boast about us, so that you may be able to answer those who boast about outward appearance and not about what is in the heart. 13 For if we are beside ourselves, it is for God; if we are in our right mind, it is for you. 14 For the love of Christ controls us, because we have concluded this: that one has died for all, therefore all have died; 15 and he died for all, that those who live might no longer live for themselves but for him who for their sake died and was raised.

16 From now on, therefore, we regard no one according to the flesh. Even though we once regarded Christ according to the flesh, we regard him thus no longer. 17 Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation. [2] The old has passed away; behold, the new has come. 18 All this is from God, who through Christ reconciled us to himself and gave us the ministry of reconciliation; 19 that is, in Christ God was reconciling [3] the world to himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and entrusting to us the message of reconciliation. 20 Therefore, we are ambassadors for Christ, God making his appeal through us. We implore you on behalf of Christ, be reconciled to God. 21 For our sake he made him to be sin who knew no sin, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God. - 2 cor 5
 
Ashley,

I really believe you have no idea what the bad news of God is or what the great good news of God is. There is no charity for proclaiming something contrary to the essential truths of the Christian Faith. What is the condition of man prior to knowing Christ?

The Ministry of Reconciliation
11 Therefore, knowing the fear of the Lord, we persuade others. But what we are is known to God, and I hope it is known also to your conscience. 12 We are not commending ourselves to you again but giving you cause to boast about us, so that you may be able to answer those who boast about outward appearance and not about what is in the heart. 13 For if we are beside ourselves, it is for God; if we are in our right mind, it is for you. 14 For the love of Christ controls us, because we have concluded this: that one has died for all, therefore all have died; 15 and he died for all, that those who live might no longer live for themselves but for him who for their sake died and was raised.

16 From now on, therefore, we regard no one according to the flesh. Even though we once regarded Christ according to the flesh, we regard him thus no longer. 17 Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation. [2] The old has passed away; behold, the new has come. 18 All this is from God, who through Christ reconciled us to himself and gave us the ministry of reconciliation; 19 that is, in Christ God was reconciling [3] the world to himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and entrusting to us the message of reconciliation. 20 Therefore, we are ambassadors for Christ, God making his appeal through us. We implore you on behalf of Christ, be reconciled to God. 21 For our sake he made him to be sin who knew no sin, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God. - 2 cor 5
“The bad news of God?” What is wrong with that statement?
 
I believe you are misunderstanding…

In the old testament, when God established a covenant with His people, there were “covenant promises” and covenant “curses.” These “curses” would apply when God’s commands for keeping the covenent were broken.

With Christ, as the new covenant, we are “cursed” when we “do not do the will of the Father.”

You deem this as “not believing in Christ…”

I believe He is speaking of sin in general. For we are ALL united in Christ, as Paul teaches. There is no more division between jew or gentile, “believer” or “unbeliever.” Christ’s sacrifice is sufficient for all mankind.

Christ commands us to share the truth in love, and to do the will of the Father. To “believe” is not enough…we must WORK out our salvation with fear and trembling.
 
I believe you are misunderstanding…

In the old testament, when God established a covenant with His people, there were “covenant promises” and covenant “curses.” These “curses” would apply when God’s commands for keeping the covenent were broken.

With Christ, as the new covenant, we are “cursed” when we “do not do the will of the Father.”

You deem this as “not believing in Christ…”

I believe He is speaking of sin in general. For we are ALL united in Christ, as Paul teaches. There is no more division between jew or gentile, “believer” or “unbeliever.” Christ’s sacrifice is sufficient for all mankind.
I’m not sure if I understand what you are saying. It almost seems you have drifted from orthodox Christianity in regards to the essentials that Protestants, Catholics, and Orthodox are untied in. Do you mind sharing the churches and denomination you belonged to prior to converting to Roman Catholicism? How does a sinner in the New Testament become united to Christ? What is your understanding of Romans 5? Protestants and Catholics believe in original sin.

Death in Adam, Life in Christ
12 Therefore, just as sin came into the world through one man, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because all sinned— 13 for sin indeed was in the world before the law was given, but sin is not counted where there is no law. 14 Yet death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over those whose sinning was not like the transgression of Adam, who was a type of the one who was to come.

15 But the free gift is not like the trespass. For if many died through one man’s trespass, much more have the grace of God and the free gift by the grace of that one man Jesus Christ abounded for many. 16 And the free gift is not like the result of that one man’s sin. For the judgment following one trespass brought condemnation, but the free gift following many trespasses brought justification. 17 For if, because of one man’s trespass, death reigned through that one man, much more will those who receive the abundance of grace and the free gift of righteousness reign in life through the one man Jesus Christ.

18 Therefore, as one trespass [5] led to condemnation for all men, so one act of righteousness [6] leads to justification and life for all men. 19 For as by the one man’s disobedience the many were made sinners, so by the one man’s obedience the many will be made righteous. 20 Now the law came in to increase the trespass, but where sin increased, grace abounded all the more, 21 so that, as sin reigned in death, grace also might reign through righteousness leading to eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
 
I’m not sure if I understand what you are saying. It almost seems you have drifted from orthodox Christianity in regards to the essentials that Protestants, Catholics, and Orthodox are untied in. Do you mind sharing the churches and denomination you belonged to prior to converting to Roman Catholicism? How does a sinner in the New Testament become united to Christ?
God promised through the old covenant, that those who kept the covenant would be with Him in heaven. The old covenant is found in deuteronomy. And is summarized in “Love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your mind, and with all your strength.”

This was the Promise God made to the jews before He sent His son, and this is the covenant promise by which we believe the Jews who lived by faith in this promise are permitted into eternal glory.
 
God promised through the old covenant, that those who kept the covenant would be with Him in heaven. The old covenant is found in deuteronomy. And is summarized in “Love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your mind, and with all your strength.”

This was the Promise God made to the jews before He sent His son, and this is the covenant promise by which we believe the Jews who lived by faith in this promise are permitted into eternal glory.
Sure, what was promised in the OT is fullilled in the NT by Christ. Please try to answer my direct question so I can follow your views. We all know in part, but I am having great difficulties understanding what you personally believe. Orthodox Protestantism and Orthodox Roman Catholicism share so much in comon, so I take many of these things for granted. The only real division that I can discern between Roman Catholicism and Protestantism is justification and authority. In regards to orginal sin and the bad news of God, we should be on the same page. Roman Catholics nor Reformed Christians believe in modern day dispensationalism. We probably agree that the true jew is one who believes in Christ. If you believe in a form of dispenstationalism, I think you may understand that Catholics and Reformed Christians teach a form of replacement theology (incorrect terminology).
 
I want to ask you, do you profess Christ as Lord and savior or are you still an agnostic? You cannot submit to the revealed will of God on many topics until you are born from above. Federal headship and the spiritual order between a man and woman is God’s truth and not mine. If anybody is mocking federal headship, then they are mocking God. Don’t be fooled, God cannot be mocked. If you are still an agnostic, you are an enemy of the cross, a child of the darkness and the wrath of God abides on you, and you are facing eternal destruction and the righteous judgment of God. If you are still an agnostic, you are in the hands of an angry God. He will crush you for your continual rebellion against Him alone. The fear of the Lord is the begining of wisdom. Repent and believe in the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved from the coming day of wrath!
Can I borrow your Bible for a moment …



(Bruxilda smacks herself on the head)

THUMP

:hypno: :hypno: :hypno:

There.

That’s better.

I have beaten all thoughts of being an independent, self sufficient, well spoken, educated woman from my mind.

I have replaced any thoughts of being a valuable contributer to society in my own right.

Imagine I once thought I could speak without asking a man’s permission to do so.

How positively disordered of me.

Thank you for saving me from the sin of having my own mind.

Thank God I didn’t have hit myself on the head with a Catholic Bible - it being heavier coz of all those extra books and stuff?

I’d have ended up brain damaged :rolleyes:
 
As to your original query - thank’s for putting the fear of the gates of hell into me 👍

I’m not a christian in that I have not yet been baptised. But I am going to be in the new year.

Hopefully into the Catholic Church.

If they’ll let me speak that is 😛
 
Can I borrow your Bible for a moment …



(Bruxilda smacks herself on the head)

THUMP

:hypno: :hypno: :hypno:

There.

That’s better.

I have beaten all thoughts of being an independent, self sufficient, well spoken, educated woman from my mind.

I have replaced any thoughts of being a valuable contributer to society in my own right.

Imagine I once thought I could speak without asking a man’s permission to do so.

How positively disordered of me.

Thank you for saving me from the sin of having my own mind.

Thank God I didn’t have hit myself on the head with a Catholic Bible - it being heavier coz of all those extra books and stuff?

I’d have ended up brain damaged :rolleyes:
It is not a light matter or a joke to be outside of Christ. God commands you to repent and believe in the Lord Jesus Christ for forgiveness of your sins, reconcilaiton, and peace with God. Until your receive Christ and profess Him as Lord and savior, your are visibly outside of Christ.
 
Sure, what was promised in the OT is fullilled in the NT by Christ. Please try to answer my direct question so I can follow your views. We all know in part, but I am having great difficulties understanding what you personally believe. Orthodox Protestantism and Orthodox Roman Catholicism share so much in comon, so I take many of these things for granted. The only real division that I can discern between Roman Catholicism and Protestantism is justification and authority. In regards to orginal sin and the bad news of God, we should be on the same page.
“original sin” is not the “bad news of God” as you put it, though… Original sin is what seperates us FROM God… And every time throughout salvation history that God has reached out to us, He has done so in the form of a covenant.

The covenants throughout scripture are the key to understanding salvation history.

The only way I can think of that you’ve come up with the idea of the “bad news of God” is by misunderstanding the curses on the other side of covenant promises.

In the case of the covenant in deateronomy, the curse was eternal seperation from God because of original sin. The promise, was eternal life with God by keeping His command to love Him and love one another.

Christ did not “do away” with this covenant, he FULFILLED it. The new covenant promise is eternal life through salvation, offered for all mankind. No longer just jews, or gentiles. But all mankind. Our command is to love one another and do the WORKS of the Father in heaven. The covenant “curse” would be that those who choose SIN over the works of the father, those who choose SELF over truth, are eternally seperated from God, by their own actions.

You undestand this to mean that those who do not “believe in Christ as their personal Lord and savior” are doomed to eternal seperation. But that is simply not what Christ, Paul, scripture, or the Church has ever taught.
 
“original sin” is not the “bad news of God” as you put it, though… Original sin is what seperates us FROM God… And every time throughout salvation history that God has reached out to us, He has done so in the form of a covenant.

The covenants throughout scripture are the key to understanding salvation history.

The only way I can think of that you’ve come up with the idea of the “bad news of God” is by misunderstanding the curses on the other side of covenant promises.

In the case of the covenant in deateronomy, the curse was eternal seperation from God because of original sin. The promise, was eternal life with God by keeping His command to love Him and love one another.

Christ did not “do away” with this covenant, he FULFILLED it. The new covenant promise is eternal life through salvation, offered for all mankind. No longer just jews, or gentiles. But all mankind. Our command is to love one another and do the WORKS of the Father in heaven. The covenant “curse” would be that those who choose SIN over the works of the father, those who choose SELF over truth, are eternally seperated from God, by their own actions.

You undestand this to mean that those who do not “believe in Christ as their personal Lord and savior” are doomed to eternal seperation. But that is simply not what Christ, Paul, scripture, or the Church has ever taught.
Could you please share your denominational background before converting to Roman Catholicism. It is the best way to follow your thoughts. Are you saying everyone is united to Christ in this dispensation of grace, even those who have not professed Christ? It seems you may have attended churches with forms of universalism.
 
I believe the “dispensation of grace” occurs at Baptism… and that those who have not “professed Christ” may still follow the TRUTH of Christ, but outside of the grace offered in His church. I believe we need to recieve the grace of salvation through baptism, and participate in Christ’s work in us through faith working in love.
But I also believe in the mercy of God. Anyone who believes a piece of the truth, is also holding a piece of Christ, and that may still be saving. My goal is to share the fullness of the truth as it has been handed down to me…not to condemn others outside of that grace.

As for dispensationalism or covenant theology, I believe they both hold some truth for illuminating the scriptures… There is a great summary of this in the CA Library 🙂 Here is what it says:

catholic.com/thisrock/1999/9902chap.asp

"*Israel and the Church

One of the disputes in Protestant circles is over the relationship between Israel and the Church and whether God still has a special purpose for the ethnic people of Israel in his plan of the ages. Two of the chief disputants are the Protestant schools of thought known as “dispensationalism” and “covenant theology.” The former is a relative newcomer on the Protestant scene and was started in the 1830s by an Englishman named John Nelson Darby. A distinctive characteristic of dispensationalism is its insistence that God’s plan of the ages focuses chiefly around the ethnic people of Israel.

With the close of the Church age, many dispensationalists have said they expect God to turn away from dealing with the Gentiles and turn again to dealing primarily with the Jews.This affects dispensationalism’s reading of the book of Revelation as well as much of the rest of biblical prophecy. Dispensationalists see Revelation as a blueprint of future events, chiefly concerning the Jewish people, leading up to a future, earthly reign of Christ known as the Millennium.

During the Millennium, they believe, Israel will be restored as a nation, will return to offering animal sacrifices (in commemoration of Christ’s death on the cross), and will be the most favored nation on earth, with Jesus physically ruling in its capitol. In dispensational thought, the Jews may also have a special status in the eternal order that follows the Millennium.

Covenant theology is much more in line with what traditional Protestant views have been. It tends to be amillennial, viewing the Millennium as the present reign of Christ in heaven and, through the Church, on earth. This is the historic Protestant view, in contrast to dispensationalism’s pre-millennial (future earthly reign of Christ) stance.

Covenant theology thus does not take Revelation as a checklist of future events but as a prophecy of events occurring at the beginning of or all through Church history. Consequently it does not see Revelation as a record of God’s future dealings with the Jewish people. When dealing with apparently unfulfilled prophecies that speak expressly of Israel—such as those in many of the Old Testament prophets—covenant theologians tend to apply them to the Church, arguing that the Church is the spiritual Israel. This “transfer” of prophecies from ethnic Israel to the Church does not go over well with dispensationalists.

If we may speak of the two systems in their unqualified forms, dispensationalism asserts that God still has future plans for the Jewish people and deduces that the Church is not spiritual Israel; covenant theology asserts that the Church is spiritual Israel and deduces that God has no future plans for the Jews different than his plans for any other people.

Both systems cite Scripture for the major premises of their arguments, and the verses they cite seem successful in showing these points. The problem is not with the Scripture passages cited by the two groups but with the conclusions they draw from them. It is the constraints of the two systems that keep their adherents from recognizing that the inferences they make do not follow.
  • (cont.)
 
The Catholic Church is able to acknowledge the truth that is found in both positions. Along with the dispensationalists the Church acknowledges that God does still have plans for the Jews as a unique people (Catechism of the Catholic Church 674). Paul clearly indicates this in his writings, especially in Romans 9–11, where he indicates God continues to fulfill his promises about the Jewish people by preserving a remnant of Jewish believers in Christ (11:1–5). This indicates a special place for Israel, for no other people has a promise that there will always be a believing remnant. God also has future plans for the Jewish people: One day the Jewish people as a nation will return to Christ, and this will be one of the signs of the Second Coming and the resurrection of the dead (11:12, 15).

On the other hand, along with covenant theologians, Catholics acknowledge that the Church is spiritual Israel or, in Catholic parlance, the “new Israel” (cf. CCC 877). This too is indicated in Paul’s writings: In Romans 9:6 he says that “not all who are of Israel are Israel.” This indicates the existence of two Israels. One—“all who are of Israel”—indicates the ethnic people, not all of whom believe in Jesus. The other Israel, the context reveals, does not include those who have rejected the Messiah. This new Israel, founded by Messiah, exists in spiritual continuity with the Old Testament saints and so counts as a “spiritual Israel.” It includes Gentiles who believe in the Messiah and so through baptism are spiritually circumcised (Col. 2:11–12) and are reckoned as spiritual Jews (Rom. 2:26–29).

In his letter to the Ephesians Paul is even more explicit about the Gentiles’ spiritual inclusion when he states that “you Gentiles in the flesh . . . were [once] separated from Christ, alienated from the commonwealth of Israel . . . But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far off have been brought near . . . So then you are no longer strangers and sojourners, but you are fellow citizens with the saints” (2:11–13, 19).

Thus the Catholic Church, not being constrained by the new theological systems of dispensationalism and covenant theology, is able to avoid the extremes of both while it acknowledges the truths both contain—as it has since before either was invented.*
 
I believe the “dispensation of grace” occurs at Baptism… and that those who have…
Ashley,

I will ignore you until you are willing to share informaton about your past denominations. There’s something real strange about what you post (IMO). 🤷
 
Ashley,

I will ignore you until you are willing to share informaton about your past denominations. There’s something real strange about what you post (IMO). 🤷
Alright.

I was protestant. Anti catholic. Non denominational, Baptist, methodist, and “missionary” all at some point.

I was ready to go to seminary to become a pastor, probably non denominational.

I preached and held church services for a group of Christians that considered themselves mostly presbyterian.

Can we go back to the “strange things” LOL:shrug:
 
Can I borrow your Bible for a moment …



(Bruxilda smacks herself on the head)

THUMP

:hypno: :hypno: :hypno:

There.

That’s better.

I have beaten all thoughts of being an independent, self sufficient, well spoken, educated woman from my mind.

I have replaced any thoughts of being a valuable contributer to society in my own right.

Imagine I once thought I could speak without asking a man’s permission to do so.

How positively disordered of me.

Thank you for saving me from the sin of having my own mind.

Thank God I didn’t have hit myself on the head with a Catholic Bible - it being heavier coz of all those extra books and stuff?

I’d have ended up brain damaged :rolleyes:
LOL

:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:
 
Alright.

I was protestant. Anti catholic. Non denominational, Baptist, methodist, and “missionary” all at some point.

I was ready to go to seminary to become a pastor, probably non denominational.

I preached and held church services for a group of Christians that considered themselves mostly presbyterian.

Can we go back to the “strange things” LOL:shrug:
You have a very liberal slant of universalism in your postings. Let’s go back to our essential discussion on Ag not, because salvation issues are essential. Please go back to posts 54 through 67. I do not want to leave these essential issues while we discuss things. Liberal Protestantism is probably 99% worst than Orthodox Roman Catholicism.
 
You have a very liberal slant of unviersalism in your postings. Let’s go back to our essential discussion on Ag not, because salvation issues are essential. Please go back to post
I’m sorry if you infer from my posts that I’m slanted towards universalism.

You seem to like inferring things from many writings, that the authors never intended.

And stranger yet, you seem to be baiting ME to believe that I’m slanted towards Universalism. Are you trying to lead me from Christ?
 
All of the posters here have been very transparent about their intentions.

We are posting because we feel Christ asks us to share His truth in love. I will be the first to admit, that you make it VERY… VERY difficult to continue sharing in a loving way!

Is your mission to confuse catholics so that we no longer understand what it is we believe? Is our faith so inferior to yours, that you must take it upon yourself to set us on the “right” path?

Being catholic is about more than being “right” or making others choose what is “right.” It is about serving our Lord, living our faith, and being lights to the world of the fullness of the truth. It is about sharing an intimate relationship with our Lord, and partaking of Him, body, blood, soul and divinity through every mass. It is about sharing in communion with all the saints, past present and future, in heaven and on earth in EVERY mass.

It is about sharing Christ to the world. Not condemning the world.

I find your treatment of Ag Not and others who haven’t adhered to your brand of Christianity offensive and cold.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top