Gather Us In hymn

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Mostly home-schooled or gifted school Evangelical Protestant or non-denominational, mostly prefer rock/pop/PW at their worship services.

Many of them like Broadway show music like the score in Hamilton, or Wicked.

Difficult to say whether their parents would allow them to attend a church other than the family church–probably not.

What I find funny is that these very talented young musicians will be listening to Katy Perry or one of the rap musicians on their iPods while they are waiting to compete. 🤔
 
It’s not a matter of preference so much as it is a matter of being worthy of God. Sacred polyphony and Gregorian chant are examples of music befitting the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass. They are reverent, awe inspiring and elevate the senses upward toward God (when coupled with incense 🙂 ) Marty Haugen and all the other contemporary/protestant sounding music just does not belong at Mass. Not because of anyone’s personal feelings but because the music is unworthy. If anyone “must” listen to that dreadful music, keep it in the car or at your house (but mind your neighbors). Keep Mass honoring and worshiping God reverently, to the best of our human ability. This cannot be done with contemporary/protestant music.
 
I know quite a few Catholic teens, too, and without question, they prefer the contemporary Catholic music.

We HAVE a Latin Mass parish in our city, and the teenagers definitely do NOT attend or make attempts to attend. The priest is young and personable, the music minister/organist is young and personable (and actually conducts a secular youth choir in the community).

But the teenagers are not interested. They are more interested in attending their home parishes. In our parish most of them attend the most contemporary Mass offered (Sunday evening) which features a young pianist who is very good, and more contemporary hymns than are in the hymnal.

Again, as I have said many times in this thread–I believe that interest in traditional/ancient Catholic Mass music depends on what the community, especially on the quality or lack-of-quality of music education in the schools.

Our Catholic high school is excellent, but in the middle and elementary schools, there is only one music teacher and this teacher is at our parish school. the other Catholic schools do not have a regular music teacher, although one of the schools has a volunteer who has formed a contemporary children’s choir that sings the hymns in a very pop style. They have made a CD, and also have appeared at various performance venues in the area.

As for our public schools–:roll_eyes:

We also have a very large Hispanic population, and although many choose to attend neighborhood parishes, many also attend the Spanish-speaking parish that features the Hispanic style music (with the guitars)–very pretty music.

And…we are close enough to Chicago and churches like St. John Cantius that people COULD drive there if they want to make a day of it on Sunday. I’m sure some do. But not very many, especially since we have a well-established Latin Mass parish and school.
 
That’s so weird because the Latin masses near me are FULL of youngins and barely any older people. its strange.
 
Loud-living-dogma said:
Propers of the Mass Versus the Four-Hymn Sandwich - Homiletic & Pastoral Review
This may be a surprise to most Catholics who attend Masses in the Ordinary Form,1 but we aren’t supposed to be singing hymns exclusively or predominantly at Mass. We are supposed to be singing the Mass.
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Thank you for your posts. All of them point to a renewed appreciation for what the Mass objectively is. ( I could go on for centuries here, but hopefully those reading appreciate what the Mass is, and what it is not).

In implementing disciplines and liturgical norms, the Church addresses it’s people where they are, to draw us into communion with Christ. And where are we at this point? We are stuck, to a large degree, in superficiality, self centered-ness, unfaithfulness, apostasy. Not to be negative, but these are hallmark trends of much of our modern culture. And those are not good trends in the Christian context. And the Mass ought to run counter to secular culture, not align itself with it.

I am blessed to be a member of an awesome parish choir. As the member of this parish choir that does hymns in a reverent and relevant way every Sunday, I also think it would be good for us as a Church to refocus on the heart of the matter, which is the sacrifice of Christ made present for us.

Our liturgy guy does a great job making the hymns relevant to the scriptures and well produced. We can make even the modern stuff reverent, and at the same time we have too much attention on the type of music, the quality of music, how appealing it is, whether it matches my tastes, whether I should go to this Mass or that. Sometimes applause erupts after the powerful Easter Vigil and Christmas Eve. Well, thanks for the applause, but no thanks. Do not applaud for worship please. I think this well-intentioned applause illustrates the conundrum pretty well.

We need more God-directed, less ostentatious, less self-concerned worship.
We need more silence at Mass and less piano noodling after Communion and before the Offertory.
We need a renewal in this area that recaptures some realities that are missing in the hearts of our people.
 
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it’s strange. should not divide Christian’s. That is sad. But I can see why some could cause people to drift from the church. A large chunk of people left the church once the liturgy of the mass changed.
 
I mentioned earlier that I am the Chair of a music scholarship competition in in my city . I have been the Chair for 11 years now, which is how I have gotten to know many children and teenagers–quite a few of them are grown up now!
 
Maximilian75 said:
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Gertabelle:
But music is an art form that is intrinsically personal
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But doesen’t objective beauty exist in art?
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Yes it does, but the objective beauty is not the art itself, but what (who) it points to.
Music has a personal appeal in that every person has a unique talent to produce it, and unique personalities that are touched in unique ways by even the same piece of music.

But music is not personal in an individualist way, it is a form of expression and communication, and so it’s end is to bind us together, and at the end of the day, draw us to God as a community.
Obviously, not all music can do that in the same way, so personal tastes should not obscure the objective end we are all searching for.
 
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There are some implications in your post that seem to me to be somewhat judgmental…I don’t know you, so I myself am being judgmental in posting this. But perhaps it might be a good idea to take a look at some of your words.

Superficiality, self-centered-ness, unfaithfulness, apostasy–are you saying that those people sitting in the pews for Mass are all of these?

That doesn’t make sense. It’s the people who AREN’T at Mass who might be superficial, self-centered, unfaithful, apostate.

Those who are sitting in the pews singing Gather Us In are the thoughtful, faithful, selfless Catholics.

You say that we as the Church should refocus on the heart of the matter, which is the Sacrifice of Christ made Present for us.

So…how do you know that the people who like hymns like “Gather Us In,” are NOT focusing on Christ Truly Present?

My husband and I are converts, and I can truthfully state that we have never yet met anyone in our parish who is unaware or uncaring that Jesus is Truly Present, Body, Blood, Soul, and Divinity, in the Eucharist–and yet, they like modern hymns.

As for ostentatious and self-concerned–again, how can you know that the people in the pews are this way? How can you know their hearts?

Piano noodling? As a pianist, here’s my take–I play the Communion hymn until all the verses have been sung. If there are still folks in the line, I play the hymn softly because I don’t want them to feel self-conscious standing in the line in front of the assembly. For me, that’s a hospitality issue–I want worshippers to feel comfortable as they process forward to receive Holy Communion. WHEN EVERYONE HAS BEEN SERVED, I stop playing and allow the congregation to have silence as they continue to worship and watch Father care for the Body and Blood of Our Lord Jesus.

And finally, how do you know that “some realities are missing in the hearts of our people?”

You seem to be making some far-reaching assumptions about people that you don’t know.

Perhaps you are basing your judgments on people that you do know. That’s fair. But again, you can’t possible know what is in my heart or any heart other than your own.

And it seems that what is in your heart is disdain for music that you don’t think is appropriate–but the Church HAS deemed it appropriate at this point in history.

I apologize if I sound harsh or judgmental of you. I just happen to think that we should think the best of people who are actually in attendance at Mass rather than choosing to stay away.
 
Peeps said:
There are some implications in your post that seem to me to be somewhat judgmental…I don’t know you, so I myself am being judgmental in posting this. But perhaps it might be a good idea to take a look at some of your words.

Superficiality, self-centered-ness, unfaithfulness, apostasy–are you saying that those people sitting in the pews for Mass are all of these?
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Please read again. I’m simply observing the spiritual state of our culture, our society, all of whom are God’s people.
The Church speaks to it’s people as we are, and address our needs pastorally, for our salvation. The Mass is not really of this world, it is the union of this world with God’s kingdom. All of creation comes together. “From age to age” there is a best way to draw us in. I’m speaking about Church discipline here and liturgical practice, not objective truths like Christ being the one way to God the Father…

We in this age have needs. We are sinful in our own unique ways. The Church does (should) address it’s people as we are. I don’t think over zealous piety is a problem, quite the opposite. Nor rigidity. We have plenty of room to spare.
Not sure why you are taking personal offense. It seems to me our spiritual state is self evident. I think drawing our people away from self expression to adoration is a good thing.
The “mass model” proposed by the Loudliving dogma is a step in that direction.

So much in your post but one more thing: at our parish the communion hymn is sung, and the pianist will noodle on, sometimes all the way through the purification.
Again: or culture has a desperate need for silence; silence of the ears, the eyes, the hands, silence of the heart. And this type of thing is not conducive. Human beings can handle silence, given the chance. We may live in a superficial age, but given enough practice, we can remain silent for a few minutes.
Please give it a try.
A book suggestion along these lines:
https://www.sophiainstitute.com/products/item/mind-at-peace
 
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Got caught up with that mess with happy clappy church; hand puppets and the like in the 60’s and rock and roll bands in the 70’s in Church. I like songs I can sing along with.
 
And you don’t think people can “adore” with the current hymnody? You think that the current hymnody is useful only for “self expression?” You think that it’s impossible to adore the Lord Jesus in the Blessed Sacrament with hymns like “Gather Us In.”

If this is what you’re saying, I disagree. Strongly. If that’s not what you’re saying, then I misunderstand you and I apologize.

I agree with you about silence and I often (daily) do more than just “give it a try.” I don’t listen to music in the car, and I often take drives to “silent” places (like the scenic overlook in my favorite local forest preserve, or my parish Adoration Chapel) and just “sit.” I am blessed to be able to do this, as at this time, I have no one to care for (no small children, no elderly loved ones), and I am able to drive and walk and have some time off from work. Many people don’t have those blessings in their lives, and silence is much more rare for them.

My whole family is/was like this. My dad was a farmer and spent hours on his tractor in his fields. My brother likes to drive around and just think–no radio, no one else in the car. My mother was an invalid and although she loved listening to the radio and tapes of her church pastor’s sermons, she also loved just sitting in the house (a farmhouse) and petting her cat.

I described to you how I make silence happen at my parish (and at other OF parishes) whenever I play.

I’m not taking personal offense with what you say. I’m defending others who are very pious and reverent and filled with love for their Lord, even though they sing hymns like Gather Us In during Mass.
 
so does the congregation at my Parish, we pick sing along hymns. Ones that everyone knows the words too.
 
No, they are not poorly catechized.

And two of the “most people who attend the novus ordo do not see it for its deficiencies and faults” are Peeps (me) and Mr. Peeps, and we are definitely well-catechized. When we started attending a Catholic church after 47 years of Evangelical Protestantism (under some of the most well-known and trusted Evangelical Protestant pastors and teachers in the world), we spent two full years reading, studying, attending conferences, discussing issues with various apologists. We read several of the Catholic Church documents, including the Catechism of the Catholic Church (although perhaps you don’t recognize any Catholic Catechism except the Baltimore Catechism?). We also read the documents of Vatican II.

Yes, Peeps and Mr. Peeps are very well-catechized, plus we have a lot of knowledge of the Bible that most Catholics in the pews don’t have.

And we still choose to attend and we still love the Ordinary Form of the Mass. All our catechesis has convinced us that the Ordinary Form is valid and efficacious. And we love the music, all of it. And we love hearing the liturgy in our own heart language.

We have “visited” the Latin Mass parish several times (I occasionally play organ there), and we would not want to attend on a regular basis as long as we have the choice to attend the Ordinary Form. If you wish to attend and find it personally edifying, that’s OK. But we choose to attend the Ordinary Form.
 
ProudPapa1988 said:
Please read the article I’ve posted above. It points out very serious flaws with the novus ordo. I’m not questioning it’s validity. Just saying that it is deficient on it’s own merits (or lack thereof) but that is mostly because it was, in part, designed to do just that.
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And all of this has nothing to do with the actual subject of the thread.

If you wish to bash upon the Mass, please create your own thread.
 
This article is vile.

The author is the one who is “man-centered.” He ignores the authority of Holy Mother Church, which was given by the very Jesus Christ that this article claims is being ignored by the liturgy of the “new Mass.”

Instead of trusting Holy Mother Church and yielding to her, the author makes all kinds of false claims about the Ordinary Form of the Mass. I was disgusted to read accusations that the “Novus Ordo” is “man-centered,” a "supper table instead of an altar,’ “Inclusive,” etc. and that those who attend are not serious about the Lord or their Church.

The author has no way of knowing the hearts and souls of fellow Catholics.

And to imply that so many beautiful priests are propagating such a travesty as the “Novus Ordo” Mass is unconscionable. Does the author realize what harm he is causing by denigrating the popes and priests of the Church? The conclusion that many weaker Catholics will draw is that “the priests must be stupid, and the popes are obviously just as stupid because they are allowing this travesty of a Msas, so why should I listen to them or attend Mass at all?”

The Bible makes it very clear that woe will befall those who cause "weaker brothers and sisters to fall.

I would frankly be in terror of my soul if I wrote an article like this that challenges the authority of Holy Mother Church to make changes to the liturgy. The LITURGY is NOT God. God never changes, but the Mass Liturgy has changed constantly since it was established in the Upper Room, and it will no doubt change in the future, and as long as the Church approves those changes, we have no right to accuse the Church of evil motives…

If ProudPapa1988 and other Catholics want to attend a parish that offers the Extraordinary Form of the Mass, that is their choice. If it is so important to them, and they live in an area that doesn’t offer a Latin Mass, then let them move to a city that DOES have a Latin Mass. If it is truly that important, and if the OF is truly so evil, then the move is necessary, even if it creates havoc with family finances or relationships.

At any rate, these people should cease and desist, and stop tearing apart the faith of other Catholics and making them doubt the efficacy of their Church, their popes, their priests, and their Mass.
 
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