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KMG
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No pope in recent memory has spent as much time as this one picking at the alleged wrongdoings of “rigid” Catholics.
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SuscipeMeDomine
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Wow! You read an entire document and that’s what you came away with? How sad.
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SuscipeMeDomine
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And that says it all. If the Word doesn’t change us, then what’s the point?
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Annie
Guest
I.like this paragraph:
16. This holiness to which the Lord calls you will grow through small gestures. Here is an example: a woman goes shopping, she meets a neighbour and they begin to speak, and the gossip starts.
But she says in her heart: “No, I will not speak badly of anyone”. This is a step forward in holiness.
Later, at home, one of her children wants to talk to her about his hopes and dreams, and even though she is tired, she sits down and listens with patience and love. That is another sacrifice that brings holiness.
Later she experiences some anxiety, but recalling the love of the Virgin Mary, she takes her rosary and prays with faith. Yet another path of holiness. Later still, she goes out onto the street, encounters a poor person and stops to say a kind word to him. One more step.
This reflects what the Bible says about being faithful in little things, as well as frequent encouragement by saints for people to do the right thing in the small events of their lives. This is how a regular person can become a saint, even if they are not in a position to become a famous saint like Mother Teresa, a super saint like the martyrs, or a profound saint like St Cardinal John Newman.
The small events may be the only ones in which most people get to grow in holiness.
16. This holiness to which the Lord calls you will grow through small gestures. Here is an example: a woman goes shopping, she meets a neighbour and they begin to speak, and the gossip starts.
But she says in her heart: “No, I will not speak badly of anyone”. This is a step forward in holiness.
Later, at home, one of her children wants to talk to her about his hopes and dreams, and even though she is tired, she sits down and listens with patience and love. That is another sacrifice that brings holiness.
Later she experiences some anxiety, but recalling the love of the Virgin Mary, she takes her rosary and prays with faith. Yet another path of holiness. Later still, she goes out onto the street, encounters a poor person and stops to say a kind word to him. One more step.
This reflects what the Bible says about being faithful in little things, as well as frequent encouragement by saints for people to do the right thing in the small events of their lives. This is how a regular person can become a saint, even if they are not in a position to become a famous saint like Mother Teresa, a super saint like the martyrs, or a profound saint like St Cardinal John Newman.
The small events may be the only ones in which most people get to grow in holiness.
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SuscipeMeDomine
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And it makes it seem possible that holiness is for all of us.
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Cathoholic
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I just want to say a quick word about section 101 of GEE.
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I see some in the secular press making a big deal out of the above statement.
I read it and just saw it as the same perennial Catholic teaching.
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Some are attempting to say that the Pope thinks immigration issues are just as important as abortion here.
Maybe. Maybe not.
Pope Francis said no such thing though. He did not go into it in that kind of detail.
And even if he were to suggest this, then the prudential question of HOW to best carry out immigration aspects would crop up.
I would not read too much into GEE section 101 and political immigration policies.
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I know it is ALSO perennial Catholic teaching about sins that cry out to Heaven for God’s justice or vengeance (so it wouldn’t surprise me if Pope Francis has TWO of those sins in mind when he wrote GEE section 101).
www.catholicculture.org
See also . . .
taylormarshall.com
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God bless.
Cathoholic
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- Pre-born people = Sacred
- Born people = Sacred
I see some in the secular press making a big deal out of the above statement.
I read it and just saw it as the same perennial Catholic teaching.
.
Some are attempting to say that the Pope thinks immigration issues are just as important as abortion here.
Maybe. Maybe not.
Pope Francis said no such thing though. He did not go into it in that kind of detail.
And even if he were to suggest this, then the prudential question of HOW to best carry out immigration aspects would crop up.
I would not read too much into GEE section 101 and political immigration policies.
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I know it is ALSO perennial Catholic teaching about sins that cry out to Heaven for God’s justice or vengeance (so it wouldn’t surprise me if Pope Francis has TWO of those sins in mind when he wrote GEE section 101).
- Willful murder of the innocent
- The sin of Sodom, or carnal sin against nature
- Oppressing of the poor, especially widows and orphans
- Defrauding the wage earner
Crying to Heaven for Vengeance
The Bible mentions only four sins which cry out to God for vengeance. Considering the source and the emphasis, we have little choice but to examine our consciences on these points. A cursory examination will not do; we must cast off our cultural preconceptions to see beyond the obvious...
www.catholicculture.org
See also . . .
The Four Sins that Cry to Heaven (America Has Failed Four for Four) - Taylor Marshall
According to the Holy Spirit speaking through the Holy Scriptures, there are four sins that cry to Heaven for vengeance. From the Douay Catholic Catechism of 1649 CHAPTER XX – The sins that cry to Heaven for vengeance Q. 925. HOW many such sins are there? A. Four. Q. 926. What is the first of...
taylormarshall.com
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God bless.
Cathoholic
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- The other harmful ideological error is found in those who find suspect the social engagement of others, seeing it as superficial, worldly, secular, materialist, communist or populist. Or they relativize it, as if there are other more important matters, or the only thing that counts is one particular ethical issue or cause that they themselves defend. Our defence of the innocent unborn, for example, needs to be clear, firm and passionate, for at stake is the dignity of a human life, which is always sacred and demands love for each person, regardless of his or her stage of development. Equally sacred, however, are the lives of the poor, those already born, the destitute, the abandoned and the underprivileged, the vulnerable infirm and elderly exposed to covert euthanasia, the victims of human trafficking, new forms of slavery, and every form of rejection.[84] We cannot uphold an ideal of holiness that would ignore injustice in a world where some revel, spend with abandon and live only for the latest consumer goods, even as others look on from afar, living their entire lives in abject poverty.
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godisgood77
Guest
And it is of course! God is good!!
Mark121359
Well-known member
From Catholic World Report;
Pope Francis “takes aim” in “Gaudete et Exsultate”—and misses?
Pope Francis “takes aim” in “Gaudete et Exsultate”—and misses?
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I_trust
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Excellent read.
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christofirst
Guest
Yes, I am also reading the expert commentary regarding Rejoice and be Glad, some of which is positive and some of which is critical. Pope Francis gives us a teaching, like this latest exhortation. It is worded, I have to believe, in a deliberate and particular way. Then the experts who don’t like what he is apparently saying tell us how and why we can reinterpret or outright disregard those “disagreeable” aspects of his teaching. I find that to be discouraging, but not all that surprising given the polarized times in which we live.
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christofirst
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Just hours after writing this, I see this:
https://cruxnow.com/church-in-the-u...o-headline-summit-on-overcoming-polarization/
I give them much credit for undertaking this, and pray some good will come from it. Overcoming today’s political and ideological polarization in the US seems like monumental, sometimes impossible task.
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Annie
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From the article: These disputes do real damage and alienate younger people attracted by Catholic social principles and the message of Pope Francis,” he continued.
(Sigh… hit the wrong button again!))
Anyway, what is the message Pope Francis has that one might think young people are attracted by?
(Sigh… hit the wrong button again!))
Anyway, what is the message Pope Francis has that one might think young people are attracted by?
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christofirst
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I can’t answer as to what the author of that article was thinking, and it’s been about 30 years since anyone mistook me for a young person 
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Maybe seeing us adults, Catholics included, constantly bickering over issues right and left leaves young people feeling somewhat hopeless, like having parents who fight all the time.
As to Pope Francis’ appeal, the passage you quoted earlier in this thread certainly attracts me. I find his continual message of mercy very attractive, too. It gives me much hope.
.Maybe seeing us adults, Catholics included, constantly bickering over issues right and left leaves young people feeling somewhat hopeless, like having parents who fight all the time.
As to Pope Francis’ appeal, the passage you quoted earlier in this thread certainly attracts me. I find his continual message of mercy very attractive, too. It gives me much hope.
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Annie
Guest
Yes, I really liked that part I am continually challenged by the Pope’s calls to love and mercy, and these have been very helpful to me spiritually and in my understanding of what God wants from us.
I am confused about the other stuff, tho. First let me say that I was baptised Catholic but not raised Catholic, and my mother was one of those "celibate men in the bedroom type of ex-Catholics.
But I did read a fiction book about the Church, and I felt inspired by it. I thought if that were still the Church, challenging us to higher goodness, then I would join it. That was not what I saw in the Catholicism of the time, you see.
So I often wonder if we are not going down the wrong path when it comes to young people. It seems like what the Church is known for offering can be found outside the Church. Why be Catholic and concerned about the environment if you can just be concerned about the environment, esp considering those other Catholics who are so concerned about what happens in the bedroom?
After V2, it seemed like a lot of people thought you didn’t really need to do anything to get to Heaven. Just “be nice,” be “a good person.” If anyone could get to Heaven, why bother with being a mean ole Catholic, who wants to impose restrictions on people?
I feel ljke there’s a lot of disconnect when it comes to reversing that downward trend mentioned in the other thread.
I am continually challenged by the Pope’s calls to love and mercy, and these have been very helpful to me spiritually and in my understanding of what God wants from us.I am confused about the other stuff, tho. First let me say that I was baptised Catholic but not raised Catholic, and my mother was one of those "celibate men in the bedroom type of ex-Catholics.
But I did read a fiction book about the Church, and I felt inspired by it. I thought if that were still the Church, challenging us to higher goodness, then I would join it. That was not what I saw in the Catholicism of the time, you see.
So I often wonder if we are not going down the wrong path when it comes to young people. It seems like what the Church is known for offering can be found outside the Church. Why be Catholic and concerned about the environment if you can just be concerned about the environment, esp considering those other Catholics who are so concerned about what happens in the bedroom?
After V2, it seemed like a lot of people thought you didn’t really need to do anything to get to Heaven. Just “be nice,” be “a good person.” If anyone could get to Heaven, why bother with being a mean ole Catholic, who wants to impose restrictions on people?
I feel ljke there’s a lot of disconnect when it comes to reversing that downward trend mentioned in the other thread.
Mark121359
Well-known member
One of the most troubling and glaring issues I’m having with this papacy, is the way that liberal, free thinking bishops, cardinals, and theologians can come straight out to the press, and boast of some things (See links below) that are darn near heretical in their scope, and you hear nary a sound from Rome…crickets.
And then, when traditional leaning bishops, cardinals, and theologians fight back, and speak out at this obvious assault on doctrine, all hell breaks loose!!! They’re labeled a Pharisee, or lacking tolerance, or the current favorite, “rigid.” I can’t speak for anyone else on here, but It’s becoming extremely tiresome!
onepeterfive.com
And then, when traditional leaning bishops, cardinals, and theologians fight back, and speak out at this obvious assault on doctrine, all hell breaks loose!!! They’re labeled a Pharisee, or lacking tolerance, or the current favorite, “rigid.” I can’t speak for anyone else on here, but It’s becoming extremely tiresome!
Cardinal Schönborn: a Council Could Approve of Female Ordinations
During Easter, not only did a German priest and monk declare that he could well imagine a female pope in the future, but Cardinal Christoph Schönborn – whom Pope Francis has called a “great theologian”…
onepeterfive.com
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Phillip_Rolfes
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Francis doesn’t “take aim” at anyone in Gaudete et Exsultate. Rather, as with any good exhortation, he encourages us to set aside any attachments - even attachments to good things - that are keeping us from God so that we can fully attach ourselves to God and manifest our love for God through the love of our neighbor.
Anyone who thinks Pope Francis downplays the role of the Mass, the Sacraments, and the role of prayer and silence in the spiritual life hasn’t actually read the text of the exhortation - and if they have, they’ve fixated on one point and removed it form its larger context. There are several points throughout the exhortation where the pope explicitly encourages great (and more attentive) participation in the Mass, frequent reception of the Eucharist and Reconciliation, a daily “rule” of prayer and a regular entrance into contemplative silence, and reading the lives and writings of the saints!
For anyone who’s not read it yet, I’d encourage them to read it, then reread it… and possibly after that, read it once more. Sure it’s challenging in some areas, and I was a little unsettled (not in a bad way) by some of the things he said. But then again, I’m frequently unsettled by the words of Christ, or St. Paul, or St. Thomas Aquinas, etc. because reading their words makes me realize how far I fall short from authentic Christian love-charity.
Anyone who thinks Pope Francis downplays the role of the Mass, the Sacraments, and the role of prayer and silence in the spiritual life hasn’t actually read the text of the exhortation - and if they have, they’ve fixated on one point and removed it form its larger context. There are several points throughout the exhortation where the pope explicitly encourages great (and more attentive) participation in the Mass, frequent reception of the Eucharist and Reconciliation, a daily “rule” of prayer and a regular entrance into contemplative silence, and reading the lives and writings of the saints!
For anyone who’s not read it yet, I’d encourage them to read it, then reread it… and possibly after that, read it once more. Sure it’s challenging in some areas, and I was a little unsettled (not in a bad way) by some of the things he said. But then again, I’m frequently unsettled by the words of Christ, or St. Paul, or St. Thomas Aquinas, etc. because reading their words makes me realize how far I fall short from authentic Christian love-charity.
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CilladeRoma
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Bravo, sir. Bravo! 
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Joe_5859
Guest
If we still had signatures at CAF, that would be my new signature.
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Luke6_37
Guest
I feel that way all the time.
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