Gay Christians, controversial nun among those set to greet Pope Francis

[Bubba_Switzler]

Yes, I see it as “holier than thou” - take my morality or else.

Can Obama out-holy the pope? The media will inform us who is getting the moral lesson here.

 

[FollowChrist34]

Can Obama out-holy the pope? The media will inform us who is getting the moral lesson here.

Which media are we talking about? The New York Times et al.? Or the National Catholic Register?

Also, I think morality is supposed to be relative at the White House - with the possible exception of gay marriage and abortion rights which do qualify for absolutism…served up with a smile and photo op, bien sûr.

 

[808Catholic]

I don’t see this as trying to destroy anyone or anything at all. Gay and trans* Christians exist. Many, including myself, have felt alienated by the Catholic Church, feeling that there is no place for them there. Even if they don’t have the opportunity to speak at this, it’s good to have their presence acknowledged.

Do you feel alienated by the Church or by the people in the Church?

 

[808Catholic]

Yes, whether the Pope likes it or not, he is basically entering enemy territory - the strongest secular liberal base in the West. Is this how St. Paul would meet with Roman pagan leaders or Jesus would meet Caesar? I have my doubts…but then we are all so much more civilized and “inclusive” today. I apologize for my rough edges.

I don’t know that he can pull out given said obligations of civility, diplomacy, but I think it is important he articulates very clearly what the Church stands for and why at key points in his visit. It has to be painfully, embarrassingly obvious - as painfully, embarrassingly obvious as the secular amoral righteousness that is being shoved in his face.

How he deals with this will be really key for me and how I feel about where the Catholic Church is headed.

Catholics are not like our Protestant brethren; we don’t vote who’s the Pope and we don’t choose doctrine. We follow the Pope and adhere to doctrine.

 

[808Catholic]

Can Obama out-holy the pope? The media will inform us who is getting the moral lesson here.

I don’t believe there’s a contest and nor should there be. If there was, all my money’s on the Pope!

 

[FollowChrist34]

Catholics are not like our Protestant brethren; we don’t vote who’s the Pope and we don’t choose doctrine. We follow the Pope and adhere to doctrine.

Couldn’t have put it better myself.

 

[808Catholic]

Did someone say this was going to be in a crowd of 15,000? I suspect there will be a lot of sinners in the group. I imagine the Pope will welcome them all.

Everyone in the room/world are sinners including the Pope. I believe he’s a great leader of the Catholic Church and will show us Catholic Americans how to lead our lives in the secular culture that pervades the US.

 

[Ned_Hill]

Did someone say this was going to be in a crowd of 15,000? I suspect there will be a lot of sinners in the group. I imagine the Pope will welcome them all.

You don’t think there is a difference between a private, anonymous sinner in an audience of 15,000, and the Pope meeting and greeting a line of openly dissenting, non-repentent people who seek to use the authority of the Church to promote sinful behavior, on a stage in front of those 15,000?..and in front of a TV audience of millions?

It was disingenuous of the White House to suggest that there is no difference. The White House invited them because there is a difference.

Of course the Pope welcomes all sinners. Of course he is one himself. But, there is a very important theological difference between private sin and public scandal…a difference between the Pope welcoming all repentent sinners to the Church, and appearing to publicly condone sin.

 

[Confiteor_Deo]

You don’t think there is a difference between a private, anonymous sinner in an audience of 15,000, and the Pope meeting and greeting a line of openly dissenting, non-repentent people who seek to use the authority of the Church to promote sinful behavior, on a stage in front of those 15,000?..and in front of a TV audience of millions?

It was disingenuous of the White House to suggest that there is no difference.

Of course the Pope welcomes all sinners. Of course he is one himself. There is a very important theological difference between private sin and public scandal.

This is true. Even though there are thousands in attendance, the public is going to focus on these three sinners above all the others because the media is going to make it seem like they were private guests at a Papal dinner. Whenever Obama handpicks people like this to appear before the Holy Father, it is obvious that he is intending to do some damage.

 

[KSU]

@FatherRosica: Vatican has issued no statement on @POTUS Guest List for @Pontifex welcome in DC. Vatican never comments on invitations of Heads of Statetwitter.com/fatherrosica/status/644909892969570304

Father Rosica is a clever man who is good with words. Who said the “Vatican” issued a statement?

 

[808Catholic]

You don’t think there is a difference between a private, anonymous sinner in an audience of 15,000, and the Pope meeting and greeting a line of openly dissenting, non-repentent people who seek to use the authority of the Church to promote sinful behavior, on a stage in front of those 15,000?..and in front of a TV audience of millions?

It was disingenuous of the White House to suggest that there is no difference. The White House invited them because there is a difference.

Of course the Pope welcomes all sinners. Of course he is one himself. But, there is a very important theological difference between private sin and public scandal…a difference between the Pope welcoming all repentent sinners to the Church, and appearing to publicly condone sin.

We cannot control what the world presents; we can only present the truth.

 

[808Catholic]

This is true. Even though there are thousands in attendance, the public is going to focus on these three sinners above all the others because the media is going to make it seem like they were private guests at a Papal dinner. Whenever Obama handpicks people like this to appear before the Holy Father, it is obvious that he is intending to do some damage.

Politicians have tried to dismantle the Church and its members for many, many years. When Jesus said the powers of hell will not prevail, I don’t think He meant “ever” but “in the end.” Those who want to harm the Church will find ways but, in the end, we are guaranteed by God that He will prevail and the Church will survive until the end of time. Have faith.

 

[exnihilo]

What I find funny is Obama would never do this to Saudi Arabian or Chinese leaders. He is not brave. He is not principled. He is just a sower of disorder when he can get away with it.

I believe that Obama hates and fears the Roman Catholic Church because he understands that Her doctrine is irreversible and stands in the way of his immoral Socialist agenda.

I think he may well hate her, but I’m not sure if he fears her or her doctrines. I think Obama is a man of pure will. I don’t think he has any real principles other than exercising his own power. If he hates the Church I think it is more because she stands in opposition to him. Not on any particular principle but at all. Any power other than his own is a threat.

 

[Thorolfr]

A Gay Episcopal Bishop’s Open Letter to the Pope

I pray for you every day, because your pastoral responsibility is so daunting, and even if you are Pope, you are still only human. I have had the opportunity to be chief pastor and bishop to a faithful flock (albeit so very much smaller than yours), and it is an awesome responsibility. It is also a blessing and an honor to serve, is it not?

There has been a bit of a kerfuffle in the last 24 hours due to reports that a senior Vatican official is offended, on your behalf, by my invitation to the White House on Wednesday to welcome you to America. Sister Simone Campbell, one of the nuns working day in and day out on behalf of the poor, is lumped in with me as a purported offense to you.

Based on your saintly ministry so far as Pope, I have to suspect that this report does not represent your own views (if this has even been brought to your attention), but rather the views of those who would try to “protect” you from the world. It would seem that I hold a higher view of you than some of your handlers who may have forgotten that you have demonstrated quite regularly not only your knowledge of the real world, but also a compassion for it. Not to mention that the good nun and I will be somewhere in the middle of a throng of 10,000+ Americans joining together to welcome you and wish you well.

I suppose the Vatican official’s concern has to do with my having been elected and consecrated a Bishop of The Episcopal Church, while at the same time being an openly gay, partnered man. Were I ever to have the honor of meeting you, I would of course not be the first gay man or gay bishop with whom you have had contact. Some of them, undoubtedly, work with and for you in the Vatican. Based on your demonstrated and notorious compassion, I suspect you will not be offended by a gay bishop and a feisty nun somewhere in the crowd of 10,000 admirers.

We disagree in our understandings about sexuality and the diverse and wonderful ways God has made us. But as far as I am concerned, that does not keep me from admiring you and praying for you and your ministry.

Our churches disagree on those whom we are willing to ordain, their gender and their sexual orientation. Still, that does not keep me from striving to love and serve those entrusted to me, and to pray for you as you strive to love and serve those entrusted to you. We both care passionately about the poor, and we share the notion that unfettered capitalism creates and perpetuates poverty, treating the less fortunate as goods to be used up and discarded.

You and I believe that God has a special place in God’s heart for those who are marginalized—whether they be refugees, undocumented immigrants, those living with HIV/AIDS, or those without food, shelter and healthcare. And we both suspect that God must wonder when we are going to find the courage to love and care for our beautiful and fragile planet.

We have so much that binds us together, and so little that separates us. We are probably never going to settle those differences. As for me, I am willing to acknowledge the saintly integrity with which you hold your views, even if I disagree with them, as I hope you might acknowledge my striving for integrity in mine. It seems that in these times, the greatest sin would be to write one another off and to stop caring about one another.

That, I think, would break God’s heart.

Something tells me that you will not be offended if I am somewhere in the crowd of 10,000, gathered to welcome you to America, with respect and wholehearted affection. And I doubt that you need your colleagues in the Vatican to be so protective of you. We believe, you and I, that God loved us so much, God chose to become one of us, flesh and blood, incarnate. And that incarnation continues to raise humankind to new heights and calls us to serve all of God’s children.

I will be somewhere in that throng of people on the south lawn of the White House, welcoming you to America, and listening intently for what godly wisdom you might impart to us. Thank you for visiting us in America. And while members of your own flock will have a special joy in your visit, please know that many more of us respect your office and love you as a human being.

A laborer in another part of the Vineyard,

Gene

The Rt. Rev. V. Gene Robinson is a Senior Fellow At the Center for American Progress and the now-retired Episcopal Bishop of New Hampshire.

thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/09/19/a-gay-episcopal-bishop-s-open-letter-to-the-pope.html

 

[808Catholic]

thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/09/19/a-gay-episcopal-bishop-s-open-letter-to-the-pope.html

The real question may be: would these people have been invited if they weren’t “gay”, transgendered, or militant Catholic? Who’s using whom?

 

[sarah_j]

• The presence of LGBT activists and other controversial guests at the White House welcoming ceremony for Pope Francis has reportedly drawn concern at the Vatican.
  
  A senior Vatican official has said the Holy See is concerned that any photos of the Pope with the controversial guests could be interpreted as an endorsement.
  
  The White House directly invited some guests to the Sept. 23 South Lawn ceremony

If this is going to be a lawn ceremony where the Pope speaks to the seated guests
you can be sure that the cameras will be panning the audience to pick out the problematic
guests…
and captions will identify the pro-abortion, and same-sex marriage activists, etc. as they
appear to be pleased at the Pope’s words.
It’s just a scam to make it look like the Catholic Church is “coming around” to
seeing eye-to-eye with Obama’s liberal agenda.
If the Pope has to shake hands with folks, the pictures will be even more
suggestive of this because you can be sure the WH will see to it that some of
these activists are close enough to have their pictures snapped as they
shake hands with the Pope.
If the ceremony was going to be at night, the WH would probably be lit up
like a rainbow again.

I’m glad the Vatican has been made aware of the people Obama has invited to the WH
so the Pope doesn’t walk into that trap with no warning.
:mad:

 

[FollowChrist34]

The real question may be: would these people have been invited if they weren’t “gay”, transgendered, or militant Catholic? Who’s using whom?

Exactly.

 

[sarah_j]

thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/09/19/a-gay-episcopal-bishop-s-open-letter-to-the-pope.html

A piece of propaganda worthy of Joseph Goebbels himself.

 

[KSU]

What I find funny is Obama would never do this to Saudi Arabian or Chinese leaders. He is not brave. He is not principled. He is just a sower of disorder when he can get away with it.

I think he may well hate her, but I’m not sure if he fears her or her doctrines. I think Obama is a man of pure will. I don’t think he has any real principles other than exercising his own power. If he hates the Church I think it is more because she stands in opposition to him. Not on any particular principle but at all. Any power other than his own is a threat.

Our respective opinions are not mutually exclusive.

I would add only that Obama’s fear of the Church lies especially in the person of the Pope–as opposed to the Catholic establishment in America. Obama more than once has demonstrated little fear and no respect for the latter while effecting his agenda. He is now acting similarly in regard to the Holy Father, and that’s what has rightfully offended the official in the Vatican.

BTW, Episcopal Bishop Robinson’s letter to Francis regarding that issue seems disingenuous and preachy. The Pope will see right through it, but never let on that he does.

 

[808Catholic]

If this is going to be a lawn ceremony where the Pope speaks to the seated guests
you can be sure that the cameras will be panning the audience to pick out the problematic
guests…
and captions will identify the pro-abortion, and same-sex marriage activists, etc. as they
appear to be pleased at the Pope’s words.
It’s just a scam to make it look like the Catholic Church is “coming around” to
seeing eye-to-eye with Obama’s liberal agenda.
If the Pope has to shake hands with folks, the pictures will be even more
suggestive of this because you can be sure the WH will see to it that some of
these activists are close enough to have their pictures snapped as they
shake hands with the Pope.
If the ceremony was going to be at night, the WH would probably be lit up
like a rainbow again.

I’m glad the Vatican has been made aware of the people Obama has invited to the WH
so the Pope doesn’t walk into that trap with no warning.

:mad:

I dare say the Vatican has a better intelligence system than most nations; the Pope knows!