Gay Christians, controversial nun among those set to greet Pope Francis

[benjamindt]

Obama was not raised as a Muslim. His mother was Christian and he has never been a Muslim.

Obama was definitely raised partly in Islamic tradition. Obama stated in an interview that when he was younger and living in Indonesia, he attended a “muslim school.”

From his book, page 154

“In Indonesia, I had spent two years at a Muslim school, two years at a Catholic school. In the Muslim school, the teacher wrote to tell my mother that I made faces during the Koranic studies.”

 

[benjamindt]

As far as I’m concerned, the statement made by the anonymous Vatican source was not authorized by Pope Francis. He has done enough saying and doing to demonstrate that this anonymous complaint is contrary to his own views. The statement certainly would not take the form of an anonymous complaint to the media had he approved it.

Well to be quite honest, “as far as your concerned” does not make it true. I am sure it would benefit your viewpoint greatly if Pope Francis didn’t share the sentiments of the anonymous Vatican source. If Pope Francis didn’t share the sentiments, he would’ve said so and not let this issue drag on.

If the Vatican is expressing concern to the White House, it is no longer some anonymous source making claims to reporters. If Pope Francis had a contrary view, he would let everyone know.

 

[Thorolfr]

Obama was definitely raised partly in Islamic tradition. Obama stated in an interview that when he was younger and living in Indonesia, he attended a “muslim school.”

From his book, page 154

“In Indonesia, I had spent two years at a Muslim school, two years at a Catholic school. In the Muslim school, the teacher wrote to tell my mother that I made faces during the Koranic studies.”

Non Catholic children frequently attend Catholic schools. That does not make them Catholics. Attending a Muslim school does not make someone a Muslim. Since Obama says he also attended a Catholic school, how come everyone is not saying he was raised Catholic?

 

[Ned_Hill]

Perhaps the White House wanted to bring together representatives of a pluralistic, multi-faceted country to meet the Pope. Bishop Robinson is a person of faith, as is Sister Simone Campbell. My guess is that there are other people in that crowd of 15,000 that represent diverse cultures and stances. This is a GOOD thing. No one is trying to be disrespectful to the Pope. We are who we are and should be proud of that diversity.

thoroflr, thank you for posting Bishop Gene Robinson’s letter. I have known him for years. He is a good man and his letter, I believe, was sincere.

Sincerity of the individuals invited is not in question. But, their sincerity is totally beside the point.

They are being used by the president to lessen the authority of the Church in the minds of US citizens. Which is what we are talking about here: theological scandal. I’m using that word (“scandal”) in its technical sense. A political trap has been set for political purposes, because the president wants to weaken the moral and political influence the Catholic Church has on these particular issues (abortion, homosexuality, gender reassignment) in the United States.

 

[EmperorNapoleon]

Well to be quite honest, “as far as your concerned” does not make it true. I am sure it would benefit your viewpoint greatly if Pope Francis didn’t share the sentiments of the anonymous Vatican source. If Pope Francis didn’t share the sentiments, he would’ve said so and not let this issue drag on.

If the Vatican is expressing concern to the White House, it is no longer some anonymous source making claims to reporters. If Pope Francis had a contrary view, he would let everyone know.

An anonymous Vatican source doesn’t make the statement true either. I don’t expect Pope Francis to retract statements he didn’t approve and made by people hiding in the shadows. It is not consistent with his message or actions so far as Pope and I have no reason to believe it to be true.

 

[Ned_Hill]

Love the sinner just don’t be seen with them in public, right?

Wrong.

Love the sinner, and don’t be seen with them in public in a setting which can be used by sinners to give the impression that the Church condones sin.

I’m making a point about the perceived authority of the Church, not about sinners. This is not about receiving sinners. If those people want to meet with the Pope in a less confrontational way, I have no doubt they could meet with him. But this meeting is intended to be public, and for public gain to lessen the moral authority of the Church in the US.

Seems to me that this anonymous Vatican source isn’t speaking with the views of Pope Francis in mind and there are bigger problems when some are more concerned with photo ops than the mission of the Catholic Church.

Actually, I am directly commenting on the mission of the Catholic Church. * I don’t know why anyone would diminish this to a “photo op.” You know that the White House is not diminishing it that way, at least not internally–otherwise, why are they doing it?*

 

[Ned_Hill]

The recent things [EmperoroNapoleon has] said in this thread come across as the rantings of one who has blindly entered this discussion solely for the purpose of trying to make the Pope and the Church look like hypocrites and thereby discounting their authenticity and Christianity.…

That is the very purpose of the invite by the White House.

Opponents of the Church are trying to trap the Pope. They are using his faith against him to cause the meeting to happen. (“He must receive sinners”) Then, afterward, they will use the meeting to encourage more sin and to move more people away from God. (“See, even the Pope thinks this behavior is ok.”)

 

[benjamindt]

I’m sorry, but it is absurd to be arguing about how the Church should accomplish it’s mission with someone who doesn’t even affirm the very existence of God.

I’m not saying agnostics and atheists aren’t intelligent and shouldn’t be included in anything Church related, I just feel like perhaps we should let the direction of the Church be determined by those who profess the faith.

Furthermore, this reciting of “jesus ate with sinners” forgets one very important subject. Jesus ate with sinners while preaching the evils of sin. Most of the country that uses this phrase don’t want the preaching, they just want the affirmation and acceptance of their sin.

Jesus didn’t hang out with Mary Magdalene and talk about how well the prostitute business was going and say “Hey Mary, you’re awesome just the way you are, keep it up if you like it and it feels right to you.”

 

[Ned_Hill]

As far as I’m concerned, the statement made by the anonymous Vatican source was not authorized by Pope Francis. He has done enough saying and doing to demonstrate that this anonymous complaint is contrary to his own views. The statement certainly would not take the form of an anonymous complaint to the media had he approved it.

Question: Do you hope that Francis, through his comments or his actions, will weaken the Church’s position on abortion, homosexuality and gender reassignment?

 

[benjamindt]

That is the very purpose of the invite by the White House.

Opponents of the Church are trying to trap the Pope. They are using his faith against him to cause the meeting to happen. (“He must receive sinners”) Then, afterward, they will use the meeting to encourage more sin and to move more people away from God. (“See, even the Pope thinks this behavior is ok.”)

I agree wholeheartedly. Catholics who take the position that we should ignore the sin and just look for the “good pieces” in these actions will only lead us down a path that will bring us closer to Protestantism, or as I heard a catholic answers guest relabel it, Apostasy Theory Theism.

 

[EmperorNapoleon]

Question: Do you hope that Francis, through his comments or his actions, will weaken the Church’s position on abortion, homosexuality and gender reassignment?

My hope is that Pope Francis continues to embrace and treat with charity and dignity those who the Church has ostracized for so long and admonishes those individuals who wish for the contrary and pine for the return of fire and brimstone theology.

 

[benjamindt]

My hope is that Pope Francis continues to embrace and treat with charity and dignity those who the Church has ostracized for so long and admonishes those individuals who wish for the contrary and pine for the return of fire and brimstone theology.

The Church has not ostracized these people, they have willingly desired the separation from the church through their attachment to sin and the lack of willingness to repent. People who repent from their sins are not ostracized. People who refuse to acknowledge the truth of Christ and the evils of sin and hold on to their practices in spite of the Church separate themselves.

Everyone has problems, the Church would never reject someone who wishes to repent of their sins and embrace the Truth and Mercy of Christ.

 

[Bubba_Switzler]

My hope is that Pope Francis continues to embrace and treat with charity and dignity those who the Church has ostracized for so long and admonishes those individuals who wish for the contrary and pine for the return of fire and brimstone theology.

You mean the Satanists?

 

[EmperorNapoleon]

The Church has not ostracized these people, they have willingly desired the separation from the church through their attachment to sin and the lack of willingness to repent. People who repent from their sins are not ostracized. People who refuse to acknowledge the truth of Christ and the evils of sin and hold on to their practices in spite of the Church separate themselves.

Everyone has problems, the Church would never reject someone who wishes to repent of their sins and embrace the Truth and Mercy of Christ.

A few posts back you questioned why it is that non-Catholics should have a voice in the direction of the Catholic Church and the answer to that is a rather simple one. No offense, but the direction as dictated solely by Catholics has led the Church right down the tubes. Hardly any American Catholics attend mass and the vast majority reject the Church’s teaching on a number of issues from contraceptives to homosexuality and beyond. That is the inevitable consequence of pandering to those who already believe in confrontational ways rather than seeking to convert those who do not believe. Its the difference between a message of hatred and a message of love.

You say the Church has not ostracized these people and I, as one of them, say otherwise. Historically those who profess to speak “the truth of Christ” have done so in confrontational ways that are arrogant, insulting, demeaning, denigrating, mean-spirited, and un-Christ like. They may not intentionally ostracize people, though some absolutely do, but their words and deeds have that effect. You’re not going to fill the pews by insulting people and attempting to strip them of their dignity.

If the Church is going to have a future here then it needs to work on its delivery and re-valuate the manner in which it engages people. Pope Francis is accomplishing that. People might not agree with everything the Catholic Church teaches, but Pope Francis treats everyone with dignity and respect so they are willing to listen and that’s a start.

 

[JimG]

I’m sorry, but it is absurd to be arguing about how the Church should accomplish it’s mission with someone who doesn’t even affirm the very existence of God.

I’m not saying agnostics and atheists aren’t intelligent and shouldn’t be included in anything Church related, I just feel like perhaps we should let the direction of the Church be determined by those who profess the faith.

Furthermore, this reciting of “jesus ate with sinners” forgets one very important subject. Jesus ate with sinners while preaching the evils of sin. Most of the country that uses this phrase don’t want the preaching, they just want the affirmation and acceptance of their sin.

Jesus didn’t hang out with Mary Magdalen and talk about how well the prostitute business was going and say “Hey Mary, you’re awesome just the way you are, keep it up if you like it and it feels right to you.”

In other news, the Magdalen holds a press conference, stating that in view of Jesus’ approval, she has decided to expand her business and include more women, in the interests of inclusiveness and diversity. (Sorry, just a bit of sarcasm here.)

Edit: In the interests of diversity, she announces that her expanded business will employ prostitutes of both sexes.

 

[lax16]

A few posts back you questioned why it is that non-Catholics should have a voice in the direction of the Catholic Church and the answer to that is a rather simple one. No offense, but the direction as dictated solely by Catholics has led the Church right down the tubes. Hardly any American Catholics attend mass and the vast majority reject the Church’s teaching on a number of issues from contraceptives to homosexuality and beyond. That is the inevitable consequence of pandering to those who already believe in confrontational ways rather than seeking to convert those who do not believe. Its the difference between a message of hatred and a message of love.

You say the Church has not ostracized these people and I, as one of them, say otherwise. Historically those who profess to speak “the truth of Christ” have done so in confrontational ways that are arrogant, insulting, demeaning, denigrating, mean-spirited, and un-Christ like. They may not intentionally ostracize people, though some absolutely do, but their words and deeds have that effect. You’re not going to fill the pews by insulting people and attempting to strip them of their dignity.

If the Church is going to have a future here then it needs to work on its delivery and re-valuate the manner in which it engages people. Pope Francis is accomplishing that. People might not agree with everything the Catholic Church teaches, but Pope Francis treats everyone with dignity and respect so they are willing to listen and that’s a start.

Please give concrete examples when and where “the Church” has:

1. Pandered to those who believe in confrontation thus choosing to send a message of hate.
2. Behaved in an arrogant, insulting, demeaning, denigrating, mean-spirited, unChristlike manner
3. Has not treated people with dignity and respect

 

[EmperorNapoleon]

Please give concrete examples when and where “the Church” has:

1. Pandered to those who believe in confrontation thus choosing to send a message of hate.
2. Behaved in an arrogant, insulting, demeaning, denigrating, mean-spirited, unChristlike manner
3. Has not treated people with dignity and respect

Unfortunately such discussion is prohibited on this forum. The last time I did the above my post was removed and I was given an infraction by a moderator.

 

[lax16]

Unfortunately such discussion is prohibited on this forum. The last time I did the above my post was removed and I was given an infraction by a moderator.

Send me a pm.

 

[ComplineSanFran]

Those that preach diversity are the ones who hate Christianity and are relentlessly trying to destroy its teachings about abortion and gay marriage. Diversity is a code word for “anything goes”. Who are you to say that Obama is devious, or that supporting abortion is heretical?This is how asinine the diversity argument has become. Anyone who does not see this has not thought this out through and through.

Liberals hate the rules of the Catholic Church and are relentlessly trying to change it to fit their needs. The way to heal the sick is not to condone or enable their behavior with "private blessings or by meet and greets- the way is to start practicing what you preach and start teaching the Word.

That’s a whole lot of accusations there. People who preach diversity ‘hate Christianity’? I believe that there are many Christian congregations, communities, individuals, as well as whole denominations who embrace diversity and see it as part of who we are as Christians.
By our very nature, we are diverse. We celebrate that.

Meet and greets? You lost me there.

But I think perhaps you are confusing some political stances with who Christ is calling us to be. I have no doubt that Sister Simone Campbell is an excellent example of a woman following Christ’s lead. She’s top of the line in my opinion.

 

[sarah_j]

But I think perhaps you are confusing some political stances with who Christ is calling us to be. I have no doubt that Sister Simone Campbell is an excellent example of a woman following Christ’s lead. She’s top of the line in my opinion.

The Vatican would disagree.

democracynow.org/2012/4/27/us_nuns_face_vatican_crackdown_for

“An investigation by the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith under Pope Benedict XVI resulted in a censure of the LCWR in 2012, which Pope Francis recently reaffirmed. At issue are what the inquisitors called “serious doctrinal problems,” such as LCWR’s focus on social activism rather than on opposing abortion and same-sex marriage.”

reasonablycatholic.com/2014/06/04/nun-on-the-bus-sr-simone-campbell-vatican-censure-of-lcwr-a-godsend/