Gay Christians, controversial nun among those set to greet Pope Francis

[Thorolfr]

Well, maybe relationships for Catholics are different, and marriage is all about sex… But for me, sex isn’t the reason I love my boyfriend and hope to get married someday.

Then again, maybe you’re just making the assumption that gay people are fixated on sex, and that that’s the only possible reason we’d ever want to be with someone of the same gender.

 

[KSU]

…As a gay Catholic, I knew I was “called to celibacy”, however in practical terms, that meant the Church was calling me to be alone and miserable for the rest of my life.

I was fortunate enough to find a Church that accepted me, and I’m honored to live my vocation as a deacon now… Something that would never have been possible had I remained a Catholic. I know plenty of gay people who were so hurt by their religion that they have no faith at all; so I suppose in that regard, I was fortunate not to have that happen to me, despite feeling discouraged for quite some time.

As a Gnostic “Christian” you believe that there are 32 carnal desires to overcome before salvation is possible. That implies that, in Gnostic teaching, homosexuality is not a carnal desire to be overcome.

Am I correct? If not, are you saying that your Gnostic congregation doesn’t care that you are not trying to overcome your carnal desire, i.e., not aiming for salvation?

 

[gnosisofthomas]

As a Gnostic “Christian” you believe that there are 32 carnal desires to overcome before salvation is possible. That implies that, in Gnostic teaching, homosexuality is not a carnal desire to be overcome.

Am I correct? If not, are you saying that your Gnostic congregation doesn’t care that you are not trying to overcome your carnal desire, i.e., not aiming for salvation?

Christian without the quotation marks works just fine! I’m not sure what 32 carnal desires you’re referencing. Are you possibly referring to a Carpocratian or Ophite belief? I’m more of a Valentinian, so sin is result of the imperfection of the world we’re born into, and salvation through Gnosis liberates us from the imperfection that causes sin, corruption, death.

As far as my parish or the Gnostic Church as a whole, homosexuality is a non-issue. It’s no more or less a carnal desire to overcome than heterosexuality. Salvation doesn’t depend on overcoming (perceived) carnal desires. We strive to follow the two great commandments of Christ, and to receive His Gnosis.

 

[EmperorNapoleon]

While the guest list apparently irked the Vatican official who spoke to the WSJ, several other church officials in the Vatican and the U.S. said privately they didn’t consider the issue a problem or worth coverage.

They said there are far more important issues to think about in connection with the pope’s Sept. 22-27 trip to Washington, New York and Philadelphia, and they noted that the guests in question represented a handful of people out of many thousands.

Administration officials also said the White House worked with the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops, the Archdiocese of Washington, Catholic Relief Services and Catholic Charities to distribute invitations to guests from around the country.

As I suspected, this is much ado about nothing. More to the point; one anonymous man’s opinion that doesn’t seem to be shared by anyone of note.

 

[Thorolfr]

As I suspected, this is much ado about nothing. More to the point; one anonymous man’s opinion that doesn’t seem to be shared by anyone of note.

I thought this part was kind of interesting

But these particular guests are “a rogue’s gallery” of dissenters and their inclusion is “a stunning show of political indecorum” designed to “test just how far Pope Francis’ notorious tolerance will go,” Thomas Williams wrote last Wednesday on the right-wing news site Breitbart.com.

In his article, Williams — who left the priesthood to marry a woman he was having an affair with — described Sr. Simone Campbell, one of the guests, as the “pro-abortion executive director of the social justice lobby NETWORK.”…

[Williams] left the priesthood to marry a woman — the daughter of Mary Ann Glendon, a conservative Catholic law professor and ambassador to the Holy See under President Bush — with whom he’d secretly had a child while he was still a cleric.

 

[ComplineSanFran]

I thought this part was kind of interesting

“[Williams] left the priesthood to marry a woman — the daughter of Mary Ann Glendon, a conservative Catholic law professor and ambassador to the Holy See under President Bush — with whom he’d secretly had a child while he was still a cleric.”

Stones, glass houses, and all that?

I still think Sr Simone Campbell is the Dorothy Day of our time. I’m not seeing what her opponents think she is doing. Why are people so very upset with her? My guess is that she and the Pope will get on quite well.

 

[Midwest88]

I thought this part was kind of interesting

I fail to see your point.

Anyone who is familiar with NCR, and anyone who vets the Catholic online sites, is aware that NCR leans to the left of Christian news reporting.

 

[KSU]

Originally Posted by KSU
As a Gnostic “Christian” you believe that there are 32 carnal desires to overcome before salvation is possible. That implies that, in Gnostic teaching, homosexuality is not a carnal desire to be overcome.

Am I correct? If not, are you saying that your Gnostic congregation doesn’t care that you are not trying to overcome your carnal desire, i.e., not aiming for salvation?​

Christian without the quotation marks works just fine! I’m not sure what 32 carnal desires you’re referencing. Are you possibly referring to a Carpocratian or Ophite belief? I’m more of a Valentinian, so sin is result of the imperfection of the world we’re born into, and salvation through Gnosis liberates us from the imperfection that causes sin, corruption, death.

As far as my parish or the Gnostic Church as a whole, homosexuality is a non-issue. It’s no more or less a carnal desire to overcome than heterosexuality. Salvation doesn’t depend on overcoming (perceived) carnal desires. We strive to follow the two great commandments of Christ, and to receive His Gnosis.

My friend, Christianity and the Gnostic faith are incompatible concepts. That’s why I used quotation marks around Gnostic “Christian”. You can’t be an authentic Christian if you are a Gnostic:

GNOSTICISM The theory of salvation by knowledge. Already in the first century of the Christian era there were Gnostics who claimed to know the mysteries of the universe. They were disciples of the various pantheistic sects that existed before Christ. The Gnostics borrowed what suited their purpose from the Gospels, wrote new gospels of their own, and in general proposed a dualistic system of belief. Matter was said to be hostile to spirit, and the universe was held to be a depravation of the Deity. Although extinct as an organized religion, Gnosticism is the invariable element in every major Christian heresy, by its denial of an objective revelation that was completed in the apostolic age and its disclaimer that Christ established in the Church a teaching authority to interpret decisively the meaning of the revealed word of God. (From Fr. John Hardon’s Modern Catholic Dictionary, © Eternal Life. Used with permission.)

Moreover, if you are not sure what the 32 carnal desires I referenced in my post are, then it seems you are not a Pistis Sophia Gnostic, either. jesusfamilytomb.com/holy_books/apochryphal/books_of_savior.html

It appears, therefore, that based on all your posts, your idea of a Gnostic “Christian” is a construct designed to allow homosexual acts under the banner of Christianity.

Now , what you believe is of course your business. But, when you post your attacks on Catholic attitudes regarding homosexuality, especially on an orthodox Catholic forum, and try to tell us what Jesus would say and do in the the Holy Father’s place at the White House, you should expect your Gnostic “Christian” views to be challenged.

 

[sallybutler]

EmperorNapoleon, I hope you get your way and Pope Francis treats anti-Catholic activist sinners at the White House the way you want him to; i.e., the way Jesus treated public sinners.

That would require Francis to admonish them and tell them to go and sin no more. I can hear the squeals of outrage now. The media would explode with howls of protest, Obama and his Party of Death would boycott the Pope’s appearance at Congress, and the homosexual activists would have a hissy fit tantrum that would continue for years.

I can dream, can’t I ?

Would this be right after he said something about those without sin? There would be no one in the room to see what he told the public sinners.

 

[Trader]

The President of China is also visiting the US today. Will the US administration assure that he is confronted by dissident Chinese who wish to protest forced abortions; the sale of organs from executed prisoners; the imprisonment of people for publicly disagreeing with the Chinese government; the suppression of religion, especially Catholics loyal to the Pope; and other human rights abuses?

Ooooooo! That would be rude. As if I needed a smilie for that.

 

[Thorolfr]

I fail to see your point.

Anyone who is familiar with NCR, and anyone who vets the Catholic online sites, is aware that NCR leans to the left of Christian news reporting.

My point is that some of the people complaining the most loudly like Thomas Williams from Breitbart.com are hardly paragons of virtue.

 

[ARSpade]

My point is that some of the people complaining the most loudly like Thomas Williams from Breitbart.com are hardly paragons of virtue.

That sounds kinda judgy.

 

[Thorolfr]

That sounds kinda judgy.

But all the people like Thomas Williams who are complaining about Gene Robinson, the gay Episcopal bishop, and Sister Simone Campbell are not being judgy?

 

[ARSpade]

But all the people like Thomas Williams who are complaining about Gene Robinson, the gay Episcopal bishop, and Sister Simone Campbell are not being judgy?

That sounds kinda judgy too.

 

[ProdigalSun]

I don’t see this as trying to destroy anyone or anything at all. Gay and trans* Christians exist. Many, including myself, have felt alienated by the Catholic Church, feeling that there is no place for them there. Even if they don’t have the opportunity to speak at this, it’s good to have their presence acknowledged.

Sorry to hear that you felt alienated by the Catholic Church. I pray that this can be reversed. Can I ask what is it that makes you feel alienated. What is it that the church has done that has caused you to feel alienated?

I have a close friend who felt the same way, I never got a accurate answer from him. It wasn’t until after he ws HIV positive and all his gay friends left him that he finally reconciled with the church.

 

[Thorolfr]

That sounds kinda judgy too.

And what you’re saying sounds kinda judgy, too

LOL…So I guess we’re all being judgy together

 

[ARSpade]

And what you’re saying sounds kinda judgy, too

LOL…So I guess we’re all being judgy together

It was either play the judgy game or point out that most members here aren’t twice divorced (depending on your view) gay bishops, so that’s an easy plank to get out of your eye.

 

[CRATUS]

If I know Pope Francis as well as I think I do, he’ll show nothing but the utmost respect for each guest’s dignity as a human being and a child of God, regardless of how sinful we may consider them to be. If anyone wants him to publicly shame a controversial nun or a transgender woman, they’ll only be disappointed. I feel as though his preferred approach to these types of situations is to see the person as one of God’s beloved and treat them accordingly. It isn’t always helpful to correct a person at every possible opportunity.

They know what the Church teaches, that’s why they’re there. But Pope Francis will not falter on Catholic doctrine, and yet neither will he force these people out of his presence. They will receive acceptance and charity from the Holy Father, but they will not find the affirmation they so obviously seek. The Church does not bow to the whims of those who disagree with Her. If Nero couldn’t destroy the Church in its infancy, a few liberal guests certainly won’t today.

God Bless you, sir. Thank You. That is something the needs to be taught. I do not think sin should be condoned or the gospel should be watered down. Let people be. God knows their sins. It is not always best to correct, point out people’s sins all the time. I think it can make situations often WAY WORSE. They feel like they are being attacked all the time.

 

[Thorolfr]

It was either play the judgy game or point out that most members here aren’t twice divorced (depending on your view) gay bishops, so that’s an easy plank to get out of your eye.

True. And most members are also not like Thomas Williams who secretly had a child while he was still a priest and then left the priesthood to marry the woman he was having an affair with and then turned around and criticized a divorced gay bishop for being included on the guest list to greet the Pope.

 

[808Catholic]

God Bless you, sir. Thank You. That is something the needs to be taught. I do not think sin should be condoned or the gospel should be watered down. Let people be. God knows their sins. It is not always best to correct, point out people’s sins all the time. I think it can make situations often WAY WORSE. They feel like they are being attacked all the time.

Attacked by whom? Is it the Church that invites them to the Vatican so they can put them on display for their agenda? Have you seen any Catholic churches with signs “Homosexuals NOT welcomed here!”? Yes there are misguided people in the Catholic Church and some of them might even wear the collar but that does not mean the Church is hostile to homosexuals. On the contrary, I believe the Church is very accepting of homosexuals just as she is accepting of all of us who have our own sins to deal with.