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gurneyhalleck1
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Oh go fix yourself a vegimite sandwich!
Gay Episcopal Bishop Says St. Paul Was Condemning Homosexual Acts by Heterosexuals
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Andrew_Phillip
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gurneyhalleck1
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When did I ever say that gays should leave a particular church? When did I promote fear of gays or hatred of them? And when did I equate them to rapists?
I have gone on record several times as saying that an adulterous heterosexual is just as sinful as an actively-sexual gay man. They are both equally sinful before God’s eyes. And I have also gone on the record saying that gay does not necessarily mean a man is a pedophile or a sexual predator. There are predators of heterosexual and homosexual inclinations. I never said anyone should leave a church? Please show me where I said that. In each of these you put words in my mouth. I hope you don’t do that to your patients, doc! Wow!
What I have said repeatedly, but then again you’re new to this forum and have few posts or familiarity with most folks on CAF, is that homosexuals should be celibate and remain Catholic. And if they fall off the wagon they should go immediately to confession and return to the sacraments. They should behave as any other Catholic who sins…go to reconciliation and get back on the horse. Never in my life have I said they are all going to hell and should leave the Church and go kill themselves or whatever fear-mongering stereotype you’re trying to brand me with.
I also never said that any kid who comes in contact with gays will somehow pollute them. You must be confusing my statements in all these areas with someone else.
What the Catholic Church teaches is that homosexuality is a struggle, a tough struggle, but it is DISORDERED and objectively sinful. Have you ever actually read the Catechism of the Roman Catholic Church or are you reading Hans Kung and some off-the-wall liberal pamphlet from an Australian hippie commune from the 60’s? Nowhere do I nor the Catholic Church advocate dumping gays into the fires of hell or labelling them as child predators or hating them. I never said I hated them? You assume as much because you’re a liberal activist-minded lefty who automatically thinks any disagreement with your reverse orthodoxy is automatically a hate crime with malice intended. Not so. But you go on thinking that if it comforts you. Demonizing the opposing view is a nice cushion for some.
Homosexuals are called to celibacy, prayer, overcoming their disorder, and hope for a new life in Christ. Their sin is a struggle much like pornography, adultery, greed, abortion, and all the other great sins plague the rest of us. They have a great challenge but also an exceedingly great reward with Our Lord if they stand victorious over this sin and are vigilant and faithful to the end. We all fall short of the glory of God, period.
But when folks like yourself categorize being gay as normal, acceptable, and God-given, you commit a great, serious, and scandalous sin that will only serve to jeopardize yourself and others in the grand scheme of salvation.
I do not need a spiritual advisor. If you were a true professional (which I’m starting to doubt) you would not be able to “diagnose” a person simply through a message board thousands of miles away. You’d need to be holistic, methodical, and professional by reserving judgment in person and going through a diagnostic process. Stop being a psychiatric profiler and try being a Christian who sticks to his Church’s teachings…and last time I checked the Orthodox do not endorse the gay lifestyle as God-given normalcy and wholesomely acceptable and pleasing to God.
I have gone on record several times as saying that an adulterous heterosexual is just as sinful as an actively-sexual gay man. They are both equally sinful before God’s eyes. And I have also gone on the record saying that gay does not necessarily mean a man is a pedophile or a sexual predator. There are predators of heterosexual and homosexual inclinations. I never said anyone should leave a church? Please show me where I said that. In each of these you put words in my mouth. I hope you don’t do that to your patients, doc! Wow!
What I have said repeatedly, but then again you’re new to this forum and have few posts or familiarity with most folks on CAF, is that homosexuals should be celibate and remain Catholic. And if they fall off the wagon they should go immediately to confession and return to the sacraments. They should behave as any other Catholic who sins…go to reconciliation and get back on the horse. Never in my life have I said they are all going to hell and should leave the Church and go kill themselves or whatever fear-mongering stereotype you’re trying to brand me with.
I also never said that any kid who comes in contact with gays will somehow pollute them. You must be confusing my statements in all these areas with someone else.
What the Catholic Church teaches is that homosexuality is a struggle, a tough struggle, but it is DISORDERED and objectively sinful. Have you ever actually read the Catechism of the Roman Catholic Church or are you reading Hans Kung and some off-the-wall liberal pamphlet from an Australian hippie commune from the 60’s? Nowhere do I nor the Catholic Church advocate dumping gays into the fires of hell or labelling them as child predators or hating them. I never said I hated them? You assume as much because you’re a liberal activist-minded lefty who automatically thinks any disagreement with your reverse orthodoxy is automatically a hate crime with malice intended. Not so. But you go on thinking that if it comforts you. Demonizing the opposing view is a nice cushion for some.
Homosexuals are called to celibacy, prayer, overcoming their disorder, and hope for a new life in Christ. Their sin is a struggle much like pornography, adultery, greed, abortion, and all the other great sins plague the rest of us. They have a great challenge but also an exceedingly great reward with Our Lord if they stand victorious over this sin and are vigilant and faithful to the end. We all fall short of the glory of God, period.
But when folks like yourself categorize being gay as normal, acceptable, and God-given, you commit a great, serious, and scandalous sin that will only serve to jeopardize yourself and others in the grand scheme of salvation.
I do not need a spiritual advisor. If you were a true professional (which I’m starting to doubt) you would not be able to “diagnose” a person simply through a message board thousands of miles away. You’d need to be holistic, methodical, and professional by reserving judgment in person and going through a diagnostic process. Stop being a psychiatric profiler and try being a Christian who sticks to his Church’s teachings…and last time I checked the Orthodox do not endorse the gay lifestyle as God-given normalcy and wholesomely acceptable and pleasing to God.
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gurneyhalleck1
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Hey, my spelling was wrong, you use an Incredible Hulk font, we’ll call it even…
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Trishie
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There is no ambiguity in these scriptures.
Romans 1:24-27
Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another. They exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator—who is forever praised. Amen.
Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion.
Leviticus 18:22
"You shall not lie with a male as one lies with a female ; it is an abomination.
Romans 1:24-27
Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another. They exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator—who is forever praised. Amen.
Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion.
Leviticus 18:22
"You shall not lie with a male as one lies with a female ; it is an abomination.
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larkin31
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This point seems to always get lost in people’s desire to condemn homosexuality or to try to link it to pedophilia. Meanwhile, scores of children are being abused in their own homes (fathers are greatest perpetrators) and having to try to learn to cope with the trauma.
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latin_rite
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Really? I didn’t see any of this on the 300…I must have got the edited version.
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CMatt25
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I agree. I have no desire to condemn homosexuality. We are to love our neighbor and not judge.
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CMatt25
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Are you saying then the sin is actually sex outside of marriage?
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gurneyhalleck1
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I’m saying adultery is sinful. It’s that simple. I’m not trying to address fidelity with homosexuality, but heterosexuals. Take this scenario: you have a gay man having his sodomy with his partner. Then you have a heterosexual man who is cheating on his wife. The gay sex is equally sinful to the cheating heterosexual man. That’s what I’m saying. Sin is sin. Both are mortal depending on the particulars of the situation. I’m trying to point out that there are many sins. People who divorce and remarry are commiting grave sin as well unless it’s for Biblical reasons. Homosexuals are an easy target and we tend to overlook the divorcees and cheating heteros, all are serious sins.
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gurneyhalleck1
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As a Catholic you are called to condemn homosexuality, just not condemn homosexuals.
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Eris_Discordia
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You are quite welcome! Thank you for taking the time to Google it.
Sorry if my responses have been slow. I have no home laptop anymore, because my charger is dead, so it’s hard to get to the school’s library on the weekends.
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Eris_Discordia
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I think it could be implied in some of the interactions of the soldiers… But I have not seen 300 in a few years. Good movie either way.
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gurneyhalleck1
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You think the Spartans were gay, you should read about the Thebans! The “Sacred Band” of Epaminondas was the gayest group in all of Hellas, fighting naked together. Quite a group…
Of course before we look at the sexual morality (or lack thereof) that the Greeks had, we need to remember we are not pagans as they were nor do we live in the classical age. We live in a Judeo-Christian culture with primarily Christian soldiers, some Jewish, some Muslims, etc. Most are monotheists and adhere to a Judeo-Christian view of homosexuality–that it is perverse and unnatural. It will affect morale in the barracks adversely and recruitment as well as we will see violence against gays, mark my words. This isn’t the Battle of Thermopylae, it’s 2010 with a whole different view and a different world. I certainly hope we don’t get back to the sickening sexuality of the Greco-Roman age!
Of course before we look at the sexual morality (or lack thereof) that the Greeks had, we need to remember we are not pagans as they were nor do we live in the classical age. We live in a Judeo-Christian culture with primarily Christian soldiers, some Jewish, some Muslims, etc. Most are monotheists and adhere to a Judeo-Christian view of homosexuality–that it is perverse and unnatural. It will affect morale in the barracks adversely and recruitment as well as we will see violence against gays, mark my words. This isn’t the Battle of Thermopylae, it’s 2010 with a whole different view and a different world. I certainly hope we don’t get back to the sickening sexuality of the Greco-Roman age!
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gurneyhalleck1
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If you want the TRUE account/story of the awesome Persian Wars and the Battle of Thermopylae, you should read Dr. Victor Davis Hanson’s writings on the subject or watch the History Channel DVD (available through Amazon) the True Story of the 300, rather than watch that over-the-top movie comic book that utterly exaggerates, distorts, and Hollywoodizes this great battle. 300 is drivel. The real story is mind-boggling courage and bravery at its finest.
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Eris_Discordia
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I liked 300, personally. But I want to learn more about it. However, being swamped with homework doesn’t lead itself to much outside research time
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gurneyhalleck1
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Homework? You getting your Bachelor’s or Masters? Seriously, read Dr. Victor Hanson’s writings on it. He is the FOREMOST expert on all things Greek. He is the senior fellow at the Hoover Institute at Stanford University, an ongoing writer for National Review, lecturer, appears on History Channel and other cable stuff, has lectured overseas extensively, been involved at military academies like Anapolis, awesome guy. I count myself blessed because he was MY professor of Ancient Greek studies at Fresno State back in the mid 90’s…He was a legend and a genius back then. He’s off-the-hook. Listening to him lecture is spell-binding. You want to know about 300, read Hanson!! 
I liked 300, personally. But I want to learn more about it. However, being swamped with homework doesn’t lead itself to much outside research time
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Janet1983
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I guess this one certainly is believing it… I hope that the majority does not.
This argument is just silly. Just because there supposedly was no definition of homosexuality in that day and age, does not mean that the apostle was not arguing against it. Definition or no, these acts are wrong and unnatural.
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Eris_Discordia
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I am undergrad, so bachelors for right now. I am an English major, creative writing minor. Thank you for the heads up. I shall look into it when I have time!Homework? You getting your Bachelor’s or Masters? Seriously, read Dr. Victor Hanson’s writings on it. He is the FOREMOST expert on all things Greek. He is the senior fellow at the Hoover Institute at Stanford University, an ongoing writer for National Review, lecturer, appears on History Channel and other cable stuff, has lectured overseas extensively, been involved at military academies like Anapolis, awesome guy. I count myself blessed because he was MY professor of Ancient Greek studies at Fresno State back in the mid 90’s…He was a legend and a genius back then. He’s off-the-hook. Listening to him lecture is spell-binding. You want to know about 300, read Hanson!!
*Edit, as you can see from my user name, I love all things Greek mythology and history.
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choy
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by “not judging” it doesn’t mean we’ll turn a blind eye to someone’s sin. we are to point out other people’s sin but don’t think they are any less than us for we are all sinners. we can’t condemn people for their actions, we can’t say they’re going to hell and shun them. but letting them continue to sin is also an offense against God. remember that Jesus ask us to be perfect as the Father in Heaven is pefect, therefore we must help each other try and achieve that perfection. letting others remain in sin is failure as a Christian
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