Gay Marriage and Freedom of Religion

[cthulhubryan]

I believe very very strongly in faithfulness in marriage and monogamy. I believe that God should be center to that marriage. I don’t believe in promiscuity or adultery. I don’t believe in divorce. And I also believe this kind of marriage centered on love, faithfulness, and God can be achieved by a man and a woman, two men, or two women.

I wanted to inject some of what we have been told by God

GOD:

You shall not lie with a male as one lies with a female; it is an abomination (Lev 18:22)

If there is a man who lies with a male as those who lie with a woman, both of them have committed a detestable act; they shall surely be put to death. Their bloodguiltiness is upon them.(Lev 20:13)

For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse. For even though they knew God, they did not honor Him as God or give thanks, but they became futile in their speculations, and their foolish heart was darkened. Professing to be wise, they became fools,
and exchanged the glory of the incorruptible God for an image in the form of corruptible man and of birds and four-footed animals and crawling creatures.
Therefore God gave them over in the lusts of their hearts to impurity, so that their bodies would be dishonored among them.
For they exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen.
For this reason God gave them over to degrading passions; for their women exchanged the natural function for that which is unnatural, and in the same way also the men abandoned the natural function of the woman and burned in their desire toward one another, men with men committing indecent acts and receiving in their own persons the due penalty of their error.
And just as they did not see fit to acknowledge God any longer, God gave them over to a depraved mind, to do those things which are not proper, being filled with all unrighteousness, wickedness, greed, evil; full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, malice; they are gossips, slanderers, haters of God, insolent, arrogant, boastful, inventors of evil,disobedient to parents, without understanding, untrustworthy, unloving, unmerciful; and although they know the ordinance of God, that those who practice such things are worthy of death, they not only do the same, but also give hearty approval to those who practice them.
(Romans 1:20-32)

 

[fix]

One other thing… I just read some of the other posts…
I believe also, we need to respect everyone’s right to hold their beliefs. If someone holds an idea that doesn’t match up with ours, it doesn’t mean we should become upset. If someone doesn’t support Gay marriage, that’s their belief and it’s just as valid to them as mine is to me.

Also, people don’t change their minds much through dialogue. This is especially true with things like racism or discrimination. Experiences change minds more. For example, experiencing the kindness and goodness of a retired gay couple or becoming friends with a coworker of another race. Through experiences we come to change our minds and shape our beliefs in my opinion.

What you seem to be proposing is some form of moral relativism. Not all views are valid. Also, We should not change our understanding of truth based on feelings.

We all know plenty of polite and kind fornicators but that should not mean we suddenly think fornication really is not evil.

 

[Deacon_Ed_B]

I’m curious as to why people believe that gay marriage should not be allowed in the country** when it falls more so under the category of freedom of religion.**

How on earth do you make the step saying that a gay life style is under freedom of religion.

 

[Elizabeth502]

How on earth do you make the step saying that a gay life style is under freedom of religion.

Deacon Ed, I think both the title of this thread and your comment together answer their own question. I addressed this more obliquely on another thread, feeling compassion for a condition I have not experienced and do not always understand. One of the reasons that I believe Catholics especially, and believers in general, react to the increasing demands of groups such as gays and transsexuals is that much of it appears to either equate itself with religion or replace religion, or confuse its activities with religious activities.

For example, what a redundancy to actually announce in a church bulletin, in a parish’s mission statement, that “we are an inclusive community.” How could you not be, and call yourself a Catholic Church? And what, in the context, of a Catholic parish, is a “gay ministry?” It seems to be putting self-identification before identification with Christ. A social group within the parish is a different thing. There are various age groups, for example, but they don’t call themselves the ‘elder ministry.’ We are all one with Christ and within Christ – if you are Christian and Catholic and seek to unite yourselves with his whole Body (which he has commanded) – not just with that part of his body that you like, or which you believe understands you, or the part that is just like you. In Christ, Paul says to the Galatians,

“There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free person, there is not male and female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus.”

When we start segmenting ourselves we have completed missed the message of Christ and are choosing to artificially partition his grace, which is his to give abundantly, not ours to demand a particular territory for. And beyond that, if you are gay, you are most certainly not 'a religion," at least not a Christian religion acknowledged in scripture.

 

[NoMoreGames]

How on earth do you make the step saying that a gay life style is under freedom of religion.

ok first off, there is not “gay lifestyle” much like there is no “straight lifestyle”

Second, I didn’t mean for the confusion, but by not allowing gay marriage, you are essentially forcing a religious belief on society. Under the bill of rights, citizens are free from that forcing.

 

[Muslim_Woman]

** In the name of Allah , the Most Gracious , Ever Merciful **

Salaam/ Peace

Thank you, posters 36 and 37… These posts are totally off-topic.

no

disobeying God can’t be considered as freedom of religion.

 

[NoMoreGames]

** In the name of Allah , the Most Gracious , Ever Merciful **

Salaam/ Peace

no

disobeying God can’t be considered as freedom of religion.

but the freedom of religion entails the freedom from religion. So if an individual did not even believe in a god, there would be nothing for them to disobey besides the law

 

[Muslim_Woman]

** In the name of Allah , the Most Gracious , Ever Merciful **

Salaam/ Peace

… if an individual did not even believe in a god, there would be nothing for them to disobey besides the law

If people declare openly that they are gay , they are gay couple , they must enjoy the special facilities etc etc , we must not support/ encourage them . In the past , God punished the whole nation ; we can’t take the risk to be punished by God by supporting gays.

These people are sick --they need urgent treatment --physically , mentally , spiritually .

 

[NoMoreGames]

** In the name of Allah , the Most Gracious , Ever Merciful **

Salaam/ Peace

If people declare openly that they are gay , they are gay couple , they must enjoy the special facilities etc etc , we must not support/ encourage them . In the past , God punished the whole nation ; we can’t take the risk to be punished by God by supporting gays.

These people are sick --they need urgent treatment --physically , mentally , spiritually .

What nation are you talking about? Sodom?

 

[buffalo]

ok first off, there is not “gay lifestyle” much like there is no “straight lifestyle”

.

Yeah there is.

 

[NoMoreGames]

Yeah there is.

so is the straights lifestyle getting drunk every night and sleeping around? That’s what a lost of straight people do so that must mean it’s the lifestyle?

 

[Deacon_Ed_B]

so is the straights lifestyle getting drunk every night and sleeping around? That’s what a lost of straight people do so that must mean it’s the lifestyle?

I see so many people equating man’s law as if on the par with God’s law. Such is not the case. It is the government that granted freedom of religion, not freedom from religion. No one has to accept those practicing a gay lifestyle as being normal. It is a perversion and against God’s law. Because I do not condone this perverted practice, does not mean that I discriminate against that person. I treat them like any other and do not discriminate, but I do not have to accept gay marriage, because someone says this is a normal alternative lifestyle, when it is not. Such thinking stems from not accepting truth as being one, singular and immutable. Truth is not relative. Those who believe that it is, will always be asking the same question asked by Pilate. i.e., “What is truth?” This is where I am coming from. To repete a phrase, We love the sinner,(in that we pray for them, do not descriminate and try to have them understand truth) but hate the sin.

 

[quiet52]

I believe the founding fathers of our nation certainly acknowledged and sought God’s involvement, and recognized sanctity of each person. Here are the first two, and final, paragraphs of the Declaration of Independence (July 4, 1776).

When in the Course of human events it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature’s God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. — That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, — That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness…

…We, therefore, the Representatives of the united States of America, in General Congress, Assembled, appealing to the Supreme Judge of the world for the rectitude of our intentions, do, in the Name, and by Authority of the good People of these Colonies, solemnly publish and declare, That these united Colonies are, and of Right ought to be Free and Independent States, that they are Absolved from all Allegiance to the British Crown, and that all political connection between them and the State of Great Britain, is and ought to be totally dissolved; and that as Free and Independent States, they have full Power to levy War, conclude Peace, contract Alliances, establish Commerce, and to do all other Acts and Things which Independent States may of right do. — And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of Divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our Lives, our Fortunes, and our sacred Honor./

A significant majority of Americans do not believe legalized same-gender unions are inalienable rights. Sad to say, too many Americans are either indifferent or ignorant as to the harm this has on our nation.

 

[BootCampJr]

I hate to state the obvious, but you are on a Catholic web site. What did you expect?

 

[Bennie_P]

so is the straights lifestyle getting drunk every night and sleeping around? That’s what a lost of straight people do so that must mean it’s the lifestyle?

The gay lifestyle is a lifestyle of sadness and death. Maybe your right, perhaps we should call it the gay deathstyle. Or its proper name the culture of death.

Paul was adamant and forthright in his belief that the gay lifestyle is incompatible with happiness and fidelity in human relations, expressing his dissatisfaction with civil unions legislation. “The temptation of other things will always stand in the way of two gay men having a long-term, loving, caring relationship.”
Fanshawe says he is horrified at the lack of emotional involvement and at the willingness of men to engage in “unsafe sex.” The film includes statistics that show the deadly consequences of the homosexual lifestyle. One in nine gay men in London is HIV infected and new cases of HIV have doubled in the city in five years. Incidences of syphilis have increased in the same time period 616 per cent.
“Unsafe” sex, he says, is not the only way in which gay men are self destructive. “If there’s a new drug, gay men will find it and take it,” he states.
At one point Fanshawe interviews a homosexual man who has “done all the drugs” and now campaigns in gay clubs against the growing use of crystal methamphetamine. The man, who could not be identified for fear of reprisals from drug dealers, said that crystal meth is preferred in the gay community because it reduces the inhibitions and allows sex to be brought to an “animalistic” level “devoid of emotion.” The film says that one in five gay men in London use crystal meth.

For there is nothing about life or a life worth living for in the whole gay scene. so sad, for one to embrace such a very, very sad and pitiful way to live.

 

[goofyjim]

I think you are using the term “natural” in too narrow a way. It is not natural to have pathology. It does occur, but that is not how we are intended to be. Medicine exists to cure pathology. That pathology happens within nature does not make it “natural” as in designed that way by the creator.

Oh great. Now the homosexual orientation is a pathology. What, even if we’re celibate, we’re walking time bombs? Think again.

 

[goofyjim]

I am saying it is absurd to argue that simply because some action, inclination, or deformity is found to occur in nature in no way proves such things should not be corrected or should be seen as consistent with health or consistent with the moral law.

You may as well ask if all congenitally blind persons are evil or suffering.

I see no reason that the homosexual orientation must be corrected. It is harmless to all when not being acted upon.

 

[goofyjim]

The gay lifestyle is a lifestyle of sadness and death. Maybe your right, perhaps we should call it the gay deathstyle. Or its proper name the culture of death.

For there is nothing about life or a life worth living for in the whole gay scene. so sad, for one to embrace such a very, very sad and pitiful way to live.

My lifestyle is one of celibacy but happiness with my sexual orientation. That is in no way pitiable and does not end in death. Sorry try a little harder.

 

[WarriorInChrist]

but the freedom of religion entails the freedom from religion. So if an individual did not even believe in a god, there would be nothing for them to disobey besides the law

I disagree. Just because you choose to live in ignorance and try and justify that something isn’t there, doesn’t mean it magically goes away.

If it walks like a duck, looks like a duck, quacks like a duck, and you close your eyes, snap your fingers, and pretend it’s an elephant – in the end, it’s still a duck.

 

[Muslim_Woman]

In the name of Allah , Most Gracious, Most Merciful

Salaam/peace

someone asked about the name of the city God destroyed . Here is related info:

…In both the Qur’an and the Bible, we are told that the first people who started this habit on a national scale were the people of Lot in the old city of Sodom which used to occupy the area where the Dead Sea now exists. (See Genesis 19).

Let us concentrate on what the Glorious Qur’an says about these people:

In surat ash-Sh`ara’, we read: 'The people of Lot rejected the messengers. Their brother Lot said to them: 'Will you not fear God? I am to you a messenger worthy of all trust. so fear God and obey me. No reward do I ask of you for it.

My reward is only from the Lord the of worlds. Of all the creatures of the world will you approach males, and leave those whom God has created for you as mates? Nay. You are people transgressing all limits.’ They said: ‘If you desist not O Lot, you will surely be cast out!’. He said: 'I do detest your doings.

O my Lord! Deliver me and my family from such things as they do.’ So we delivered him and his family, all except an old woman who lingered behind. The rest we destroyed utterly.** We rained down on them a shower; and evil was the shower on those who were admonished.’** (Ash-Sh`ara’: 160-173)

islamonline.net/servlet/Satellite?cid=1119503544846&pagename=IslamOnline-English-Ask_Scholar/FatwaE/FatwaEAskTheScholar