Gay marriage... how we ended up where we are

[Galnextdoor]

Are you saying that there aren’t many Catholics? I guess if you count all those who support SSM, have used contraception, had an abortion and have sex outside marriage, then it doesn’t leave many.

What sort of proportions of people who identify as Catholic do you think *are *actually Catholic? 10%?.

I don’t know how many people are actually Catholic. I only hope that many will come home and be the Christians God meant them to be.

If you believe that the Catholic Church is the one, true, apostolic Church created by Jesus Christ to lead us to heaven, how can you think that you can turn your back on what it teaches and still believe you are going to make it to heaven? I don’t understand.

Do they think that you can make Jesus and the truth of the church into whatever feels comfortable and that will do it?

Why call yourself Catholic if you don’t like and follow what the Catholic church teaches?

It’s like people joining a tennis club and telling everyone that tennis is too much exercise, let’s turn it into a ping-pong club. We’ll still call it a tennis club. After all, ping-pong is also called table tennis so its pretty much the same thing. We’ll just berate and shame everyone in the club who wants to follow the founding rules to play tennis and maybe they’ll go away. But hey, we’ll still be a tennis club.

My biggest prayer is that people will see truth and follow it. All this other stuff leads to spiritual death and emptiness.

 

[Midwest88]

I’m a gay man and I dress like everyone else. How would you expect me to dress? It’s not a plot to desensitize anyone.

Ah, that explains it. Sort kinda detected something was up.

 

[Galnextdoor]

There are three physicians in my immediate family, including a neurosurgeon and a psychiatrist. I asked each one separately if being gay it’s a mental illness. All three were shocked that I would ask such a question, but they played along. NO, being gay is not a mental illness anymore than being straight is. If you ask pediatricians, they will tell you that there are kids that they can tell are gay as very young children. Do you believe that a five year old or an eight year old is promoting the so-called gay agenda? If it makes you feel better to believe that LGBTQ individuals are all mentally ill, that is just fine, but there must be very good reasons that the majority of adults in this country do not agree with your position.

"Since your response does not directly address what I wrote,I am assuming you did not bother to read it.

Please don’t use my quotes if you are not going to read and respond to them. Thank you.

Also you should try reading my first post. It’s what this thread is actually supposed to be about. It seems that you are eager to post your opinion without actually reading what other people have written.

 

[cjforJesus]

There are three physicians in my immediate family, including a neurosurgeon and a psychiatrist. I asked each one separately if being gay it’s a mental illness. All three were shocked that I would ask such a question, but they played along. NO, being gay is not a mental illness anymore than being straight is. If you ask pediatricians, they will tell you that there are kids that they can tell are gay as very young children. Do you believe that a five year old or an eight year old is promoting the so-called gay agenda? If it makes you feel better to believe that LGBTQ individuals are all mentally ill, that is just fine, but there must be very good reasons that the majority of adults in this country do not agree with your position.

Because that, when they knew God, they have not glorified him as God, or given thanks; but became vain in their thoughts, and their foolish heart was darkened. [22] For professing themselves to be wise, they became fools. [23] And they changed the glory of the incorruptible God into the likeness of the image of a corruptible man, and of birds, and of fourfooted beasts, and of creeping things. [24] Wherefore God gave them up to the desires of their heart, unto uncleanness, to dishonour their own bodies among themselves. [25] Who changed the truth of God into a lie; and worshipped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.

[26] For this cause God delivered them up to shameful affections. For their women have changed the natural use into that use which is against nature. [27] And, in like manner, the men also, leaving the natural use of the women, have burned in their lusts one towards another, men with men working that which is filthy, and receiving in themselves the recompense which was due to their error. [28] And as they liked not to have God in their knowledge, God delivered them up to a reprobate sense, to do those things which are not convenient; [29] Being filled with all iniquity, malice, fornication, avarice, wickedness, full of envy, murder, contention, deceit, malignity, whisperers, [30] Detractors, hateful to God, contumelious, proud, haughty, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,

 

[Midwest88]

.

An atheists first post and it’s on homosexual “marriage.” This is too comical.

 

[Thorolfr]

Ah, that explains it. Sort kinda detected something was up.

What did you detect? That there are actually a few gay people in this forum?

 

[cjforJesus]

Ah, that explains it. Sort kinda detected something was up.

I don’t believe St Paul was a homophobic anti semite,but I believe he hit the nail on the head.

Because that, when they knew God, they have not glorified him as God, or given thanks; but became vain in their thoughts, and their foolish heart was darkened. [22] For professing themselves to be wise, they became fools. [23] And they changed the glory of the incorruptible God into the likeness of the image of a corruptible man, and of birds, and of fourfooted beasts, and of creeping things. [24] Wherefore God gave them up to the desires of their heart, unto uncleanness, to dishonour their own bodies among themselves. [25] Who changed the truth of God into a lie; and worshipped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.

[26] For this cause God delivered them up to shameful affections. For their women have changed the natural use into that use which is against nature. [27] And, in like manner, the men also, leaving the natural use of the women, have burned in their lusts one towards another, men with men working that which is filthy, and receiving in themselves the recompense which was due to their error. [28] And as they liked not to have God in their knowledge, God delivered them up to a reprobate sense, to do those things which are not convenient; [29] Being filled with all iniquity, malice, fornication, avarice, wickedness, full of envy, murder, contention, deceit, malignity, whisperers, [30] Detractors, hateful to God, contumelious, proud, haughty, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,

 

[Midwest88]

I don’t believe St Paul was a homophobic anti semite,but I believe he hit the nail on the head.

Did you just call me homophobic?

 

[Galnextdoor]

If you ask pediatricians, they will tell you that there are kids that they can tell are gay as very young children.:

Homosexuality (being gay) is being sexually attracted to the same sex. Very young children are not sexually attracted to anyone. If you see very young children exhibiting signs of being sexually attracted anyone it is a sign of sexual abuse, and you should report it to the proper authorities.

 

[Thorolfr]

Homosexuality (being gay) is being sexually attracted to the same sex. Very young children are not sexually attracted to anyone. If you see very young children exhibiting signs of being sexually attracted anyone it is a sign of sexual abuse, and you should report it to the proper authorities.

There is more about being gay than sexual attraction:

it is only relatively recently that developmental scientists have conducted controlled studies with one clear aim in mind, which is to go beyond mere stereotypes and accurately identity the most reliable signs of later homosexuality. In looking carefully at the childhoods of now-gay adults, researchers are finding an intriguing set of early behavioral indicators that homosexuals seem to have in common. And, curiously enough, the age-old homophobic fears of parents seem to have some genuine predictive currency.

In their technical writings, researchers in this area simply refer to pint-sized prospective gays and lesbians as “prehomosexual.” This term isn’t perfect—it manages to achieve both an uncomfortable air of biological determinism and clinical interventionism simultaneously. But it is, at least, probably fairly accurate.

Although not the first scientists to investigate the earliest antecedents of same-sex attraction, J. Michael Bailey, a psychologist from Northwestern University, and Canadian psychiatrist Kenneth Zucker published the seminal paper on childhood markers of homosexuality with their controversial 1995 review article in Developmental Psychology . The explicit aim of this paper, according to the authors, “was to review the evidence concerning the possible association between childhood sex-typed behavior and adult sexual orientation.” So one thing to keep in mind is that this particular work isn’t about identifying the causes of homosexuality, per se, but instead it’s about indexing the childhood correlates of same-sex attraction. In other words, nobody is disputing the genetic factors underlying adult homosexuality or the well-established prenatal influences; but the present work is orthogonal to those causal models. Instead, it is simply meant to index the nonerotic behavioral clues that best predict which children are most likely to be attracted, as adults, to those of the same sex, and which are not.

In their 1995 report, Bailey and Kenneth Zucker revealed that, in retrospective studies (the second method used to examine the relation between childhood behavior and adult sexual orientation, in which adults simply answer questions about their childhoods) 89 percent of randomly sampled gay men recalled cross-sex-typed childhood behaviors exceeding the heterosexual median. Some critics have questioned the general retrospective approach, arguing that participants’ memories (both those of gay and straight individuals) may be distorted to fit with societal expectations and stereotypes about what gays and straights are like as children. But in a rather clever recent study published in a 2008 issue of Developmental Psychology by Northwestern University’s Gerulf Rieger and his colleagues, evidence from childhood home videos validated the retrospective method by having people blindly code child targets on the latter’s sex-typical behaviors, as shown on the screen. The authors found that, “those targets who, as adults, identified themselves as homosexual were judged to be gender nonconforming as children.”

Numerous studies have since replicated this general pattern of findings, all revealing a strong link between childhood deviations from gender role norms and adult sexual orientation. There is also evidence of a “dosage effect”: the more gender nonconforming characteristics there are in childhood, the more likely it is that a homosexual/bisexual orientation will be present in adulthood.

blogs.scientificamerican.com/bering-in-mind/is-your-child-a-prehomosexual-forecasting-adult-sexual-orientation/

 

[ThinkingSapien]

You took “no they don’t” out of context. If you are going to quote me, please use and read the whole quote.

I said they don’t wear high heels, do they wear them where you live?

I misread your original statement. I admit to that being my mistake. My apologies.

The valid definition of marriage is a man and woman have a child and take care of and love that child. That’s it. The Catholic Church is the only authority I trust.

I was thinking about the usage of the word "family"and its cognates* when talking about people deciding on word usage (though it is applicable to “marriage” to). I don’t think any one questions what criteria the Catholic Church applies to marriages that it labels as valid. I’m not trying to change your word usage. But the subject of the thread already invokes semantics outside of what the Catholic Church uses for marriage.

It may be novel to rearrange the social furniture but in the case of sex, and this is all about sex, there are lines which should never be crossed. Reinventing words has no place in any discussion about this. Not on a Catholic forum. There is one truth only.

So - no redefinition of family, ever.

I disagree with a number of things here, but like I said that’s worthy of a discussion by itself. I get my fill of discussing onomasiology, etymology, and semantics in the office.

• • coincidentally a sense of “cognate” is also a synonym for some usages of the word “family.” I am using the linguistic sense of the word here

 

[Bradski]

I don’t know how many people are actually Catholic.

Well, let’s see if we can work it out. Do you think someone can be described as Catholic if they support SSM, have sex outside marriage, use contraception or have had an abortion?

An atheists first post and it’s on homosexual “marriage.” This is too comical.

So I guess a Catholic first coming to this forum (let’s say you) would be more concerned with questions of theology or spirituality. Certainly nothing as grubby as homosexuality. So let’s see what your first post was about:

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?p=8989760#post8989760

 

[Galnextdoor]

There is more about being gay than sexual attraction:

blogs.scientificamerican.com/bering-in-mind/is-your-child-a-prehomosexual-forecasting-adult-sexual-orientation/

It’s interesting that our culture discourages stereotyping the male role in society especially in children. Yet if they exhibit anything different than the traditional male stereotype they are thought to be exhibiting gay tendencies?

I have over 80 nieces and nephews, including great-nieces and great-nephews. My sisters and sisters-in-law bought the boys dolls to play with when they were little. The reasoning being that it would help them role play and become better fathers. Although I didn’t agree with it, some would also paint their boys toe nails when they painted the girls. I think that the boys wanted their toe nails painted because they enjoyed the one-on-one attention with
mom. According to these “scientific studies” these boys should have grown up gay. There is not one gay man among them, but if you want to talk about some wonderful top-notch fathers, I could go on forever.

I have two lesbian nieces who were raised by my sister who is extremely bitter and ugly about men. These girls loved playing playing princess dress up, playing with baby dolls, had a kids kitchen where they pretended to cook. My sister bought them toy toolkits, but they did not want to play with them. They were not interested in hot wheels or any of the other masculine toys.

When they became older and started to date, my sisters ridiculed and berated the boys they dated. She pushed them into what are traditionally masculine occupations and then took every opportunity to point out what she said was the sexist attitude of their co-workers.

The one niece ended up being raped three times, the final time was a gang rape. After the last rape incident, she said she was lesbian and wanted nothing to do with men again.
The other lesbian niece actually married and her mother was there for at least an hour everyday pointing out the guy’s shortcomings and inadequacies, blaming them on male weakness. She would tell the girl not to be a sissy. Tell her grow a spine where men were concerned, tell her she would not get any respect if she dressed femininely. She ended up divorcing her husband and now hates all men with a passion. She has decided she must be lesbian because she thinks that women are superior to men.

The mother has become an angry, bitter person who is upset that her daughters are lesbian. She can’t figure out why this happened. There are no other gay or lesbians in our family or her deceased husband’s family. I have 57 first cousins. Not a gay or lesbian among them.

 

[cjforJesus]

There is more about being gay than sexual attraction:

blogs.scientificamerican.com/bering-in-mind/is-your-child-a-prehomosexual-forecasting-adult-sexual-orientation/

Keep drinkin that kool aid, thor. There is a study to support any deviant sexual behavior and Kinsey was the king. According to Kinsey, children are sexual from birth, and can experience orgasms!! Wow, I wonder how he proved that research.

 

[cjforJesus]

Did you just call me homophobic?

No I did not claim you have an abnormal fear of homosexuals,nor did I claim you dislike Jews.

I was drawing your attention to a certain New Testament passage which some people can only refute by attacking St Paul.I was not referring to you though.

 

[Galnextdoor]

Well, let’s see if we can work it out. Do you think someone can be described as Catholic if they support SSM, have sex outside marriage, use contraception or have had an abortion.

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?p=8989760#post8989760

You missed the whole point of my post. Jesus started out with only 12 apostles. The number who are in good standing with the church is significant only in that more people should follow the teachings of the Church so they can get to heaven.

In John 6:53, Jesus said “Unless you eat of my body and drink of my blood you shall not have life within you.” The listeners started walking away. Jesus didn’t say hey come back so I can make this more palatable for you or let me change this around so it will be more comfortable for you. The Catholic Church is not going to change it’s doctrine because people start walking away from the truth.

What about in Mark 10 where the rich young man wanted to follow Christ. Christ told him to go and sell all that he owned and give it to the poor. The young man was too attached to worldly goods, so he walked away. Jesus didn’t say “Wait a minute that was too hard. I take that back. Just find someone like that Samaritan guy and give him money so he can help others, then it’s all good.” No, he let the guy walk away.

Too many people think the Catholic Church should be like Burger King “Have it your way.”

Truth is not relative. When it comes to truth in faith and morals, something is either right or wrong. You can’t say, “Oh let’s change the truth about this because it’s not popular.”

 

[kozlosap]

Homosexuality (being gay) is being sexually attracted to the same sex. Very young children are not sexually attracted to anyone. If you see very young children exhibiting signs of being sexually attracted anyone it is a sign of sexual abuse, and you should report it to the proper authorities.

I was on the crisis team for the huge school district I taught for and besides having a MA, we also had weeks of training from both the State of California and the Fed’s concerning all aspects of the “reporting” procedures. This has nothing to do with any kind of reportable behavior. It’s quite obvious that only your opinion counts, to check with professionals that treat and observe LGBTQ individuals on a daily basis.

 

[Galnextdoor]

I was on the crisis team for the huge school district I taught for and besides having a MA, we also had weeks of training from both the State of California and the Fed’s concerning all aspects of the “reporting” procedures. This has nothing to do with any kind of reportable behavior. It’s quite obvious that only your opinion counts, to check with professionals that treat and observe LGBTQ individuals on a daily basis.

Actually, I have a masters degree, too, have studied child development, had numerous psych classes, and attended conference seminars about child abuse and reporting it. I worked for years with very young children, and I was a mandated reporter for child abuse. One of the symptoms they taught us to look for was a very young child exhibiting sexual behavior toward another person.
Up to 80% of children age 11 and younger who exhibit sexual attraction and sexual behavior are victims of child abuse. If not physically abused, they have been exposed to pornography.

If you actually work in a school district, you are a mandated reporter and should know this. Perhaps you could use a refresher course? Or maybe you don’t work with very young children so you didn’t find this part of the training pertinent.

Also, you closed your post with a sentence fragment and a comma splice. If you do work in a school district, I hope you don’t teach English.

I don’t think reading is a subject you should teach either. It doesn’t seem that you can be bothered to actually read what the thread was originally about before posting your opinions using a quote that you have not bothered to read in its entirety.

 

[Alexander_Wolf]

**Galnextdoor **

had numerous psych classes

Well , based on your first post in this topic your license should be immediately revoked. Especially considering your anti-scientific and anti-psychology views. You are a danger to children.

edwest

I repeat my questions.

Does you daughter know you consider her a mentally ill person? Does you daughter know you want to reinstate criminal law against homosexual people? Does your daughter know you would want to remove her child(when she has one) from her and her partner because a family of two “sodomites” is a no place for a child to grow up? I’m just curious considering how brave you are here on this forum in your fierce opposition to the universal declaration of human rights , science, psychology and nature itself.

 

[Galnextdoor]

**Galnextdoor **

Well , based your first post in this topic your license should be immediately revoked. Especially considering your anti-scientific and anti-psychology views. You are a danger to children.

Please tell me that you haven’t come on here just to attack Catholics and what the Catholic Church teaches, because it seems that’s what you’re doing.

Also, please read quotes carefully. I never said I had any type of license. I started this thread with history of how gay marriage has become accepted. Please check the first page and quote #1. This will help you understand what the thread is about.

There are some posting rules that you might want to read before you post. They are listed at the top of the forums thread page. If you wish to respond to a particular quote, hit the quote then respond to what the person has written. Please don’t try to quote pieces of sentences. This is commonly done when people try to personally attack someone and not respond to the issue. Everyone reading it knows you are trying to edit what was said to suit yourself. If you have a study to back up what you’re saying, please provide a link. Please try to use full sentences when you respond, because if you don’t, it makes it difficult for readers to understand what you are trying to say. Responding in full sentences also might make you sound more intelligent.

If you want to know more about Catholics and why the church teaches what it does, you can start a thread and ask your questions. I’ll be happy to respond there.