Gay marriage... how we ended up where we are

[CHRISTINE77]

This might be news to you, but most gay men do not wear high heals or feminine clothing. Most gay men do dress just like straight men (although they might have better fashion sense).

Yes a much better fashion sense, particularly their shoes! But definitely gay men are more fashion conscious and metrosexual than straight men. They are the fashion trendsetters. Also they were the ones who made it okay for straight men to get pedicures and have their eyebrows done, etc.!

 

[CHRISTINE77]

I have a gay acquaintance who told me that he thinks religion is only about guilt and fear. I told him a little bit of guilt and fear is good for the soul!

 

[CHRISTINE77]

It’s true that gay men have one specific issue with the opposite sex: they’re not sexually attracted to them. Otherwise, most gay men I know don’t really have any problem with the opposite sex. As for the backgrounds that supposedly produce gay men, this is mostly a bunch of baloney. I’ve read all the theories about gay men having distant fathers and overbearing mothers, but these theories have not held up and have mostly been discredited since there are lots of gay men who come from perfectly normal families with great parents. Also, even the Catholic Church has never stated that homosexuality is a mental illness. You can keep believing that it is if you want, but it’s not.

Most gay men are great friends with women. They enjoy conversing with them, and are usually very amusing and sympathetic. They probably have a harder time relating to “macho” men who usually talk about football and sex with women!

 

[kozlosap]

Okay. I’ll ignore what I assume is your attempt at an insult towards me. I’m guessing your derogatory remark stems from the fact that I believe in Sodom and Gomorrah and follow what the Catholic Church teaches. This is, after all, a Catholic website, so I don’t understand why your upset about that. As for the Gospels, Jesus did not come to abolish the laws of old, but to fulfill what the prophets had said. (Matthew 5)

Romans 1:24-32 speaks disparagingly of lesbian and gay sexual acts. Should we vote to have that removed from the bible?

Your original quotes were about very young children. If you read my quotes, which again it appears that you haven’t, I said children 11 and under. Now you are changing the subject and talking about teenagers.

I never asserted that people become gay from outside influences, although, in some instances that I have first hand knowledge of, that has been the case. If these cases upset you because they don’t fit with what the lemmings of society dictate, what can I say? They are what they are.

Sex outside marriage and sodomy are wrong.

It is not a sin to be attracted to the same sex; it’s a sin to act on it.

The rest of your post seems to be meandering around comparing something that is scientific and concrete “autism” with “mothers just know”. Believe me there is no comparison. I have a child with Autism. There are many concrete, measurable tests that are used to determine whether a three year old child has Autism. As a behaviorist, you should be aware of the battery of tests that are given to determine whether a young child has Autism i.e. the Vineland Adaptive Behavioral Scales, the Stanford-Binet, the Woodcock-Johnson Cognitive Adaptability test and various other criteria. By the way, autism runs in my family. I have three nephews that have autism, as well as my son.

Please name the test that identifies very young children who are gay. That’s who we have been posting back and forth about. I would be very interested in reading the questions that are asked.

Please don’t try to cite anecdotal information about toys as a reason, because that dog wont hunt. They make pink guns for girls, pink swords, pink remote control cars, pink building blocks etc. Girls who play football are not going to grow up to be lesbians because they play football. Please don’t talk about dresses.

Growing up, I didn’t know any girls who liked to wear dresses. There is nothing like getting your dress caught on a slide and having it pulled up over your head to make you not want to wear a dress. (I speak from personal experience.) Also, dresses are horrible on jungle gyms. (The other kids run under you and say "I see Spain, I see France, I see ----------'s underpants.) If you have to wear shorts under a skirt as a child, why not just wear the shorts?

I am really sorry that you are in such a quandary about what the Catholic Church teaches and your personal feelings. I will pray for you.

I know exactly what the Church teaches and it is not to check your brain and heart at the entrance to the Church and pick up your box of crayons. According to the Church, I’m just as Catholic as you are. Do your own children believe and follow every rule that you give them?
. In sorry that you were in a marriage with abuse, it must have been horrible and we are quite fortunate that you are able to legally to get out of that situation that was not of your making. It’s obvious that we will never agree on social issues, but that’s OK, we are all different and unique. I will pray for you too.

 

[edwest2]

Because I don’t think that the etiology matters. The commonly accepted definition of a mental disorder or mental illness is a “mental or behavioral pattern that causes either suffering or a poor ability to function in ordinary life.” Neither one applies to well adjusted gay people and it is precisely because of this that homosexuality was removed from the DSM, not because the etiology has not yet been discovered (as it hasn’t been discovered yet for most conditions classified as mental illnesses in the DSM).

Claiming, however, that someone is mentally ill is certainly a convenient technique for disparaging others and that is how Galnextdoor, for example, seems to me to be using this claim. This is completely contrary to the teachings of the Catholic Church which says that homosexual persons “must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity.” And yet there is nothing respectful, compassionate or sensitive about having a conversation in a forum like this, especially one in which a person or persons with same-sex attraction might be taking part, and claiming that such persons are mentally ill.

The Catholic position on homosexual behavior:

catholicnewsagency.com/resources/life-and-family/homosexuality/what-the-church-teaches-about-homosexual-inclinations/

NARTH Institute

narth.com/#!narth-position-statements/c1ae

PFOX

pfox.org/

Ed

 

[Galnextdoor]

I know exactly what the Church teaches and it is not to check your brain and heart at the entrance to the Church and pick up your box of crayons. According to the Church, I’m just as Catholic as you are. Do your own children believe and follow every rule that you give them?
. In sorry that you were in a marriage with abuse, it must have been horrible and we are quite fortunate that you are able to legally to get out of that situation that was not of your making. It’s obvious that we will never agree on social issues, but that’s OK, we are all different and unique. I will pray for you too.

This is really off topic, but I have a question. I am not trying to be confrontational. I’m just really curious as to your reasoning. You have said in your posts above that gay marriage is harmless. That it is harmless to teach young children that gay marriage is okay. The Catholic Church teaches that gay marriage is wrong and homosexual activity is depraved. (New Catholic Catechism 2357) Genesis teaches it is wrong. Romans 1:18-32 teaches it is a depraved act resulting from the worship of false gods. How do you reconcile your feelings with what the Catholic Church teaches?

You say you are Catholic, which is a set religious beliefs, but it appears that you don’t believe in those beliefs.

I am sincerely confused. This one person I know goes to church every Sunday and receives communion. (I am not saying you’re like this person.) This person is pro-abortion, pro-birth control, pro-gay marriage, and pro-divorce and remarriage without an annulment, but she considers herself a devout Catholic. I asked her how she considers herself Catholic, when she does not believe what the Catholic Church teaches? She responded that you don’t have to believe what the Catholic Church teaches to be Catholic.

So I am curious about you, and you don’t have to answer, but if you don’t believe what the Church and the bible teaches on a subject, how do you decide what you are going to believe in? How are you sure that you are right, and the bible and the Catholic Church are wrong?

You can answer in a PM if you want.

 

[jinglebelle]

Yes a much better fashion sense, particularly their shoes! But definitely gay men are more fashion conscious and metrosexual than straight men. They are the fashion trendsetters. Also they were the ones who made it okay for straight men to get pedicures and have their eyebrows done, etc.!

Well spotted

 

[JurisPrudens]

The Catholic Church says “Homosexual acts are treated as acts of grave depravity. Homosexual acts are intrinsically disordered. They are contrary to natural law.” NCC 2357

Gay men have atypical, abnormal behavior where it comes to women.
Gay men have atypical, abnormal sexual behavior.
Gay men have atypical, abnormal behavior in how they relate to other men.
Gay men are not typically well-adjusted, happy people.

In order for you to rationalize your unnatural desires, I realize that you have to pretend that these truths do not exist. We all have our crosses to bear. We are more likely to find peace if we face up to these crosses and bear them bravely, rather than look for ways to dump them or give in to them.

I am going through a divorce. I left my husband because he thought that marriage gave him the right to beat me. There are times when I look at a handsome, friendly guy and think “Man, I would like to go out with him.” I don’t encourage him, because I know that it is wrong. When I look at look at him that way, I am thinking of myself and my selfish wants. I am not looking at him as a child of God. Dating him would bring about false hope and empty promises, along with desires that could not be fully realized in the eyes of God.
This is a cross that I struggle with. I don’t try to change the church because I have this problem.** I don’t say**, "The guy I am married to does not support me, he has choked and beaten me, he has taken me off all his benefits, so I deserve to have the right to marry someone else who will support me. I should have the right to have a relationship with another man. If anyone doesn’t agree with me, they are being hateful."What I do say is, “This is a cross that God has allowed to settle on my shoulders and has asked me to bear. Lord, help me carry it cheerfully.”

Believe me. I really struggle to bear it cheerfully sometimes.

Respect to You, sister! :hug3::hug3::hug3:

 

[Galnextdoor]

Respect to You, sister! :hug3::hug3::hug3:

Thank you

 

[Richard_White]

I am going through a divorce. I left my husband because he thought that marriage gave him the right to beat me. There are times when I look at a handsome, friendly guy and think “Man, I would like to go out with him.” I don’t encourage him, because I know that it is wrong. When I look at look at him that way, I am thinking of myself and my selfish wants. I am not looking at him as a child of God. Dating him would bring about false hope and empty promises, along with desires that could not be fully realized in the eyes of God.
This is a cross that I struggle with. I don’t try to change the church because I have this problem.** I don’t say**, "The guy I am married to does not support me, he has choked and beaten me, he has taken me off all his benefits, so I deserve to have the right to marry someone else who will support me. I should have the right to have a relationship with another man. If anyone doesn’t agree with me, they are being hateful."What I do say is, “This is a cross that God has allowed to settle on my shoulders and has asked me to bear. Lord, help me carry it cheerfully.”

Believe me. I really struggle to bear it cheerfully sometimes.

Oh, I feel absolutely terrible about what you are going through. But, I thank the Blessed Lord Jesus that He has helped you to get through your struggles and that He has helped you to understand the way that we, as Catholic Christians, are supposed to handle situations like these.

May God bless you and your son abundantly and grant you both peace!

 

[kozlosap]

This is really off topic, but I have a question. I am not trying to be confrontational. I’m just really curious as to your reasoning. You have said in your posts above that gay marriage is harmless. That it is harmless to teach young children that gay marriage is okay. The Catholic Church teaches that gay marriage is wrong and homosexual activity is depraved. (New Catholic Catechism 2357) Genesis teaches it is wrong. Romans 1:18-32 teaches it is a depraved act resulting from the worship of false gods. How do you reconcile your feelings with what the Catholic Church teaches?

You say you are Catholic, which is a set religious beliefs, but it appears that you don’t believe in those beliefs.

I am sincerely confused. This one person I know goes to church every Sunday and receives communion. (I am not saying you’re like this person.) This person is pro-abortion, pro-birth control, pro-gay marriage, and pro-divorce and remarriage without an annulment, but she considers herself a devout Catholic. I asked her how she considers herself Catholic, when she does not believe what the Catholic Church teaches? She responded that you don’t have to believe what the Catholic Church teaches to be Catholic.

So I am curious about you, and you don’t have to answer, but if you don’t believe what the Church and the bible teaches on a subject, how do you decide what you are going to believe in? How are you sure that you are right, and the bible and the Catholic Church are wrong?

You can answer in a PM if you want.

Thank you for this post! I feel so bad for your situation, I can’t imagine how devasting it must be. I am pro-life, but I also am pro-contraception. When I visited an orphanage in South Africa, I became convinced that the simple use of condoms would have saved many of those poor children from being orphans. I do not expect the Church to ever perform gay marriages, but I do want LGBTQ people to feel welcomed fully and not just for publicity. I think that we are very hypocritical when we continue too rant and rave about gays, yet there are many, many more straight people taking part in sexual sins than all the gays in the world combined.
As far as divorce is concerned, if a person has been the victim of physical abuse, I don’t think they should have to prove one thing to the Church. I don’t think you should have to be rich in order to expedite an annulment. I agree with Papa Francis that the annulment process should be streamlined with no money involved. As a Jesuit, we are blessed to have a Pope who is interested in helping the least among us, and that is wonderful.

 

[edwest2]

Thank you for this post! I feel so bad for your situation, I can’t imagine how devasting it must be. I am pro-life, but I also am pro-contraception. When I visited an orphanage in South Africa, I became convinced that the simple use of condoms would have saved many of those poor children from being orphans. I do not expect the Church to ever perform gay marriages, but I do want LGBTQ people to feel welcomed fully and not just for publicity. I think that we are very hypocritical when we continue too rant and rave about gays, yet there are many, many more straight people taking part in sexual sins than all the gays in the world combined.
As far as divorce is concerned, if a person has been the victim of physical abuse, I don’t think they should have to prove one thing to the Church. I don’t think you should have to be rich in order to expedite an annulment. I agree with Papa Francis that the annulment process should be streamlined with no money involved. As a Jesuit, we are blessed to have a Pope who is interested in helping the least among us, and that is wonderful.

I would like you to explain “fully welcomed.” No one asks for your sexual orientation when you walk into Church. All are welcome.

Ed

 

[Rau]

…I am pro-contraception…When I visited an orphanage in South Africa, I became convinced that the simple use of condoms would have saved many of those poor children from being orphans.

A good consequence is not sufficient to justify an act. Proportionalism and Consequentialism are specifically condemned by the Church (Veritatis Splendor). Catholic Moral Theology holds as a great Truth “the ends do not justify the means”. Thus, to be pro-contraception, one must believe the means are good or at least neutral - consideration of the Consequences alone cannot get you there.

I accept you do in fact see the means (contraception) as good or neutral (contrary to what Scripture, Tradition and the Church have always taught). That view would seem to be a necessary precursor to believe that sexual acts between persons of the same sex are good.

 

[Bradski]

I am sincerely confused. This one person I know goes to church every Sunday and receives communion. (I am not saying you’re like this person.) This person is pro-abortion, pro-birth control, pro-gay marriage, and pro-divorce and remarriage without an annulment, but she considers herself a devout Catholic. I asked her how she considers herself Catholic, when she does not believe what the Catholic Church teaches? She responded that you don’t have to believe what the Catholic Church teaches to be Catholic.

I’m not sure why you are confused. The person you mention self describes as a Catholic, but is not. This is true for the majority of Catholics. Do you really think that everyone in your church follows the church’s teaching to the letter? I’d say that a minority of them do.

Check any given poll on what Catholics believe and apply some statistics. There aren’t many of you.

 

[InSearchofGrace]

I’m not sure why you are confused. The person you mention self describes as a Catholic, but is not. This is true for the majority of Catholics. Do you really think that everyone in your church follows the church’s teaching to the letter? I’d say that a minority of them do.

Check any given poll on what Catholics believe and apply some statistics. There aren’t many of you.

What does it matter, these polls on what Catholics believe?

What matters for Catholics except for a few perhaps is that they leave this earth in a state of grace. In their deathbeds, they would still want to leave this earth reconciled with God and Church teaching, would humbly admit that they were wrong and ask for mercy.

Even non-Catholics (I imagine atheists, too) make deathbed conversions. Widely celebrated gay Oscar Wilde, considered a protomartyr of gay rights, as he lay dying on November 28,1900 is known to do so. His partner Robbie Ross called in a priest, an English Passionist, Father Dunne. Wilde was given conditional Baptism and was anointed. For a short time he emerged from delirium into lucidity, and Father Dunne, examining him, was satisfied that Wilde freely desired reception into the Church. Wilde died a Catholic on November 30.

The Long Conversion of Oscar Wilde.
,

 

[BellsMom]

Aren’t some forms of mental illness considered a disability for purposes of the ADA and the many protections that it provides the disabled?

People who would like to see homosexuals labeled “mentally ill” might want to be careful what they wish for.

 

[Rau]

Aren’t some forms of mental illness considered a disability for purposes of the ADA and the many protections that it provides the disabled?

People who would like to see homosexuals labeled “mentally ill” might want to be careful what they wish for.

Whatever underpins SSA, there is no suggestion that it leaves the individual not in control of and responsible for his actions.

 

[CHRISTINE77]

Whatever underpins SSA, there is no suggestion that it leaves the individual not in control of and responsible for his actions.

How so? According to homosexuals, they had no choice in the matter. Why should they be responsible for their actions?

 

[edwest2]

Aren’t some forms of mental illness considered a disability for purposes of the ADA and the many protections that it provides the disabled?

People who would like to see homosexuals labeled “mentally ill” might want to be careful what they wish for.

It was never about people in general who want to see this or that. Just as we go to doctors for certain medical problems, we rely on psychiatrists for their assessments. The APA was under pressure by radical gay activists and closeted gays in the APA in 1973 to reclassify Homosexuality in their Diagnostic and Statistical Manual, not the average person. The average person is not a mental health care professional who has, along with others in his field, studied this for decades. To put it another way: if the public was told by mental health professionals about this or that regarding homosexuality in the 1960s, what were they supposed to think?

The man on the street is just looking for honest answers.

amazon.com/Homosexuality-American-Psychiatry-Politics-Diagnosis/dp/0691028370

Ed

 

[Thorolfr]

The APA was under pressure by radical gay activists and closeted gays in the APA in 1973 to reclassify Homosexuality in their Diagnostic and Statistical Manual, not the average person. The average person is not a mental health care professional who has, along with others in his field, studied this for decades.

The man on the street is just looking for honest answers.

So it was only the “radical gay activists” and “closeted gays in the APA” who wanted it reclassified? The majority of gay people who weren’t radical would have been perfectly happy believing that they are mentally ill? And you actually believe that all the other decisions in the APA besides the one on homosexuality are only based on science?